An Idealist's Solution to the Major Problem in the US

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by California Girl, Sep 10, 2010.

  1. California Girl
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    California Girl BANNED

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    I won’t bother going through the usual ‘who did what, when and who do we blame’ scenario when It comes to decade upon decade of failing the poor, minorities, and black students, high levels of crime and violence, drugs etc. I would, however, like to consider a long term approach to actually fixing the problem. And, it’s not really even about race…. It’s about poverty and expectations. Poverty and low expectations are not a race issue, they are a societal one.

    In my view, the issue starts with parents. For reasons that I will not go into (because it’ll just distract from the actual point), we have generation after generation of uneducated Americans whose life appears to be a pattern, outlined below:

    Teenage girl, raised by a teenaged single Mom, has sex, gets pregnant, has child. That child knows no other life, sees no other examples in her community and repeats the pattern. So we have intergenerational children raising children, and that not just within families but across whole neighborhoods and communities. Because we have children raising children, those children are raised by Moms (let’s temporarily forget about ‘baby daddy’s’ – I’ll come back to them later) who are ill-prepared to raise a child properly. By ‘properly’, I mean to encourage their child to work hard at school, set boundaries and instil discipline, respect for themselves and other people, and love.

    Boys are raised with no male role model, so their view of life is equally stilted. They see females as disposable, children as disposable, and life as something that happens rather than a series of opportunities to seize or ignore. They have kids by different females, most take no responsibility – financially or in any other way.

    That’s the pattern. The question for society is this…. Is that acceptable in the United States? I would say no.

    We have an intergenerational issue of people with no expectations, breeding another generation with no expectations. That is what we need to address.

    So, how do we address it? That’s a really, really hard one… and the answers are not going to be pretty. They will require very hard choices…. And they will require money. Here is what I think we should do:

    We need to enforce education on young people. It’s not an optional extra. That means we need to get into the poor communities and show them another way. Sounds easy. It’s not. Because they won’t necessarily want to learn it. But, if we get to the children – and their teenage parents – and insist (not a choice…. I know, I know, the liberals are gonna scream about their rights – and the right will scream about the Constitution…. but we as a society simply cannot afford an ever growing group of uneducated, disengaged citizens – financially, we cannot afford them). So…. How about we tell those young people who have children ‘That’s it – no more welfare for any more kids’. We’ll provide them with alternatives, give them access to birth control and reward them for following a program to help them raise the next generation to have higher expectations. We provide any help they need – housing, drugs, counselling, education We need them to LEARN a better way.

    Obviously, the cost of such a program would be significant. Actually, it would be frightening. So, how do we pay for it? Well, that’s where we need to be even more creative. We should get the private sector to fund it. Now the right wing will be screaming at me and the liberals will be thrilled! Work with me…. It’ll get clearer!!

    IF we could solve these problems, we could save vast amounts of money. So, we get the private sector to fund it and we pay them back – and we pay them bonuses – from the savings made on a vastly reduced welfare bill. And we could part fund it through bonds – and let ordinary Americans profit from helping their fellow Americans.

    Solve that one problem and we can:

    1. Cut crime and save money – the more educated someone is, the less likely they are to commit crime. Those with decent jobs are less likely to commit crime. We’d save vast amounts within the justice system, court costs, prison, community sentences, etc.

    2. An educated workforce attracts jobs. Instead of haemorrhaging jobs like we are, we would attract inward investment (foreign jobs) into our country.

    3. Save vast amounts on welfare, so we could afford to better help those truly deserving it. Those who are not capable of taking care of themselves, the elderly, children, those with mental problems, or physical disabilities.

    4. Cut taxes – who doesn’t want more money in their pocket. That money creates jobs, because the more we have, the more we spend – and we wouldn’t have to run up credit to do it.

    The whole thing needs to be detailed out but, in general, as a concept, USMB, what do you think?

    I know it’s gonna bump up against the Constitution in some areas, and I know it would not be as straightforward as I outline but as a concept…. Would it work or am I just an idealist?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  2. California Girl
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    California Girl BANNED

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    I'm actually quite disappointed that not one of you who keep accusing the right of having no ideas has responded to the above.

    Are y'all cowards or what? The only response I've had is by PM - and that's great cuz... but, as for the rest of you... What's the problem? Is it too hard to comprehend that some of us on the right can put their money where their mouth is?

    What about my fellow conservatives? Is the thought of actually taking a short term hit for the benefit of long term self reliance too outrageous?

    Maybe y'all just don't get it.... apart from the one person whose PMed about it. Respect to her for her input.
     
  3. Blagger
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    Blagger BANNED

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    I'm no sociological expert, CG, but I firmly believe that the majority of the problems you've listed are a consequence of the western world increasingly living in a culture of convenience that relies on a finite source of energy.

    Nearly everything is at our fingertips. We want something, we click on it. We can't afford something, we take-out a loan or steal it. If we're unemployed, we apply for income support. If we need to travel a short journey, instead of drive, we fly. Indeed, most of us don't even have to leave our cars to get a cheeseburger.

    We're becoming dangerously reliant on our laziness to be catered for. Essentially, we are a spoilt society.

    And what is our basic infrastructure reliant on apart from taxes?

    Fossil fuels. Mainly Oil.

    A hundred years ago engineers created the combustion engine. An engine with a far higher output than a conventional electric motor or water wheel that wasn't at the mercy of the elements. To fuel this groundbreaking advantage, the powers-that-be needed a constant supply of fuel to keep the ahead of everyone else because it's no coincidence that the words 'energy' and 'power' go hand-in-hand. So they crushed anyone that got in the way of their life blood. So much so, that soon enough, everything and everyone was being driven by oil. Even when people started to ask if whether or not the supply would eventually run dry, they ignored them because their product made them richer than they ever imagined. When people started approaching governments with alternative, 'green' energy, they ignored them because they weren't ready to face facts and admit that their entire way of life was at the mercy of the oil giants.

    But that's just me stating the obvious.

    No, I think that if we're to start making some real changes and relieve some of the worldwide greed, then we need to start seriously examining how we're going to make the transfer from fossil fuels to sustainable, infinite energy. Because if we don't and someone get there before we do, then we're going to see some real shifts in power.

    Allow me to repeat a saying my father would often apply to todays world:

    'All for one, and none for all'.

    I hope that the above goes some way towards addressing your question, CG.
     
  4. Luissa
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    Luissa Annoying Customer Supporting Member

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    My solution to teenage pregnancy is making parents go to classes on how to put the fear in their child. My parents would have supported me if I got pregnant, but I had enough respect for them to not want to let them down. My mom put the fear in me at young age. My parents spanked me, but never beat me, and they didn't have to spank me often. Children don't fear their parents anymore.
     
  5. California Girl
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    I'm up for instilling a little 'fear' into kids - although I prefer to call it 'respect'. Respect for parents, teachers, the law, and society. But.... the question is how do we achieve that. I think, if we implemented what I outlined above - ie educating the very young - and the children that are producing those children - we might just get there.

    It's costing us, as a society, too much - not just financially. We simply cannot afford this current situation to continue.
     
  6. Luissa
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    No we can't. I feared my mom, but it really meant I respected her. All she had to do was give me that look and it was the same way with most of friends parents. Kids don't have that respect these days. I also told my mom everything, and my friends do too. My mom made it known that she would always support me.
    My brother's were normal boys and got into trouble, but they always respected my mother. My parents just taught us to respect and what was right and wrong. They also gave us our freedom when we needed to explore. I had the latest curfew, my parents asked the least amount of question when I went out, and I was probably the most prude of my friends, and never got in to trouble. I drank in high school, which my parents expected. I also knew I could call them. They never told me to stay away from a boy.
    My friend's mom was a Nazi, and even restricted her from her boyfriend, and she got pregnant our senior year. When our basement flooded and my parents found my stash of beer, instead of getting grounded, they let my brothers who were of legal age drink it. They knew even though I was still in high school, that I was eighteen, and they couldn't really ground me anymore. And since I was the sixth child they knew it would hurt more to watch $30 worth of alcohol be drank by others.
    Sorry, I am drunk posting. :D
     
  7. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Let me cut right to your proposal and address that, okay?
    Okay, your goal is to educate children even if they don't WANT to be educated, Got it.

    So you believe that government must take on this problem. Got it.



    Okay you've gone back to telling us why we must do this. No solution to be found here.




    Okay, so we stop sending them the roughly $400 a month they get. Got it



    What alternatives? What program? Where is your idealistic proposal? I'm not seeing any proposals.



    Aren't the above suggestions WELFARE?

    I'm confused. I thought you wanted to cut them off from welfare.




    Yes I agree.

    How?

    You haven't offered a single path to how we do that.

    You proposed that we cut off welfare and then you proposed to give them welfare.
     
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  8. California Girl
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    Learn to read, and comprehend what is written - not what you think I have written.

    I did not say withdraw welfare. I said "no more welfare for the next kid". See the difference? Not stop it for the kids they have - that would be ridiculous. But, make it clear there is no extra for any further kids.

    Also, I specifically said I think the private sector can take on a huge role in this. Not just by funding the programs (for profit - ie, we pay them back their investment - and pay a percentage from the savings made).

    As a short term, we will need to provide support of those young parents - not as a permanent thing - as a short term patch while we fix the main problem. How stupid can one individual be cuz you seem incapable of understanding basic English.

    Yea, I do want to force education on kids. If you are happy paying for kids to remain uneducated then you're a fucking moron.

    You have completely missed the whole fucking point. That's not my poor choice of words - because other people understood it. I guess you must be one of the people I'm talking about forcing education on.... an idiot.
     
  9. antagon
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    i think that there should be a cap on the amount of kids covered by welfare per family. with that capped at 2 or 3, that will allow the male back into the family. the alternative for these males which are equivalent to the welfare queen is prison in our society, and i think that restoring a role in the fam unit through this demand mechanism might curtail the likelihood that these men will end up incarcerated.

    we could let that marinate for a decade or so, or we could take on the bigger, underlying issue behind our problems with education and welfare performance. i say that issue is demand for domestic labor. better sealing the borders of the country is a start. i say demand manipulation is more effective than physical barriers and would suggest charging 4-figure fees for immigrant visas. proceeds from this and from the cap on welfare should be used to subsidize hourly labor rates, perhaps within sectors which drive infrastructure development only. only citizens and visa holders could evoke the subsidy so it would knock the wind out of the illegal immigrant workforce. i feel that your typical welfare queen and her baby-daddy has slipped under a certain utility to pay ratio recognized by companies hiring at low wages, and such a subsidy would advantage their participation in the workforce.

    this will be a transition during which efficiency would suffer from a lowered bar in the labor market, but the externalities of the welfare state constituents mindset would be returned to one of economic participation on the production, rather than exclusively consumption side of the coin. with time, the relief on our labor market will draw investment and the private sector will indeed pay for the transition in employment and income taxes -- but this will be more effectively spread and more easily associated with profits. win/win/win.

    subsidize wages in private daycare infrastructure, too ;)
     
  10. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    Random thoughts from a liberal:

    Interesting.

    Focus is a bit off base, inner cities, after WW1 and II, jim crow etc, grew the Black population in the north due to industrial base and work, as that work changed due to cheap labor in the South, and outsourcing of both work and manufacturing, poverty grew.

    Nothing solves poverty like a bit of the pie. Nations with high living standards have lower birth rates, good thing and bad for some. Another odd aspect is most of the pregnant girls I know of, from family friends and teachers, are young and white. I'll be darned if I can figure that out given birth control, and hopefully knowledge today. How do you explain that phenom, or the single parent family phenom of today that is not race bound?

    'Low expectations' is a perception issue on all sides of the coin. Consider according to the right it is the lazy and indigent who are poor due to self. Then consider the statistics of who the poor are? There look closely at job statistics. One can always find exceptions to all things in America, so it must be the person, after all 'I' made it.

    Now look at American values - culture - media - and attitudes towards education and even pregnancy. Palin stood proudly next to her young immature and naive, pregnant daughter, and America cheered. Imagine Obama's daughter young immature and pregnant, and the reaction would have been? I'll leave that to your imagination. Palin appeared on TV completely uniformed (???) America cheered. Obama spoke articulately and that received not only criticism but that wonderful American label of 'elitist.' Figure that out.

    Then look at TV and ads and content and tell me what we value? Moronic self contented housewives, screaming stupidities at each other? Idiots living together in what used to be called sin. Sports figures whining that millions ain't enough, and spectators paying too much to see the whiners. Glad I could see the Phillies for two bits at Connie Mack. Cop shows upon cop shows upon, scare the audience cop shows. No wonder America lives in fear. I never watched 24 but its ads looked like pure fear.

    Crime has decreased greatly in all but the inner cities. Nuts are everywhere and armed even more nutty - they are harder to find than those terrorists hiding in mountains. If you want the primary cause of crime, you need to look at drugs not single moms or education. No money, sell drugs, no job, sell drugs. The rich get their drugs from the doc, the poor the pusher, one goes to jail the other therapy. America does not praise nor worship teachers, you know 'those who can....'

    Cut taxes is a mantra that needs to be retired FOREVER. Remember Bush did that and we nearly lost it. New mantra should be 'work and spread the wealth around.' When Executives make millions in golden parachutes after complete failure and economic experts are as useless as teats on boar hog, where do you turn. Work but where.

    Few ever mention the one item that Americans spend on and on and on - defense and the military. How to compete when too money money goes into corporations who sole job is killing. The military industrial complex needs modification ans sense, a harder commodity to find.

    When India turns out more engineers than we have students, and they earn a third, or less than an American, it is pretty difficult saying education alone will solve the jobs issue. There has to be work. FDR created work through infrastructure rebuilding and public projects, Obama needs to do the same.

    No longer will we farm or build or manufacture as we did in the early 20th century, but if we take care of America, we should be OK. WWII brought machinery, wars end brought homes and durable goods, fifties brought GI bill, TV, space and roads, sixties continued TV, science and war, seventies brought stagflation and oil embargo, eighties brought deregulation, the rise of the corporation over the worker and downsizing, nineties brought the Internet and bubble, so far the 21st century has brought lower taxes, wars, and the greatest bubble real estate..... May you live interesting times, sans war.

    Your four solutions from this one issue (?) would make sense if this was all there was to the poverty, children, and I think importantly jobs creation. I was there during EEO and the one issue that amazed me was how many couples, mostly white, grew into the upper middle class over the culture changes of equal opportunity. DINKs. No sooner were Blacks allowed a bit of admittance, then women said me too. Kinda weird that women became a minority. I am not saying women should go back into the kitchen, that is a far right hallucination. I will say raising kids is one tough job today, financially and....

    I read just recently how JFK noticed no Blacks in the Guard at his inauguration and sought to resolve that immediately. It would be a different world had he and Bobby lived. Changing American values and priorities is the hard part, I think. Our blind worship of individualism can be another mantra we remove, but how can we as it forms all thought!
     
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