An honest conservative view on Medicare for all, or any other Govt. program.

[iamwhatiseem]

First of all, let me say I am not against anything that works well despite whose idea it is, or whether other conservatives like or dislike it, nor whether it was a Democrat or Republican idea.
Believe it or not, this is how America USE to operate. Mostly.
Private/company provided healthcare insurance is broke as fuck people. PERIOD.
It costs way too much, covers way too little, has way too high deductibles and many plans are now even reducing the copay to 70/30. (without lowering the premium)
Other companies are reducing/removing wellness incentives. Most people pay and pay and pay and get next to nothing from their plans due to extremely high deductibles. What good is paying $500-$800 a month for insurance when you rarely, if ever get to use it??
For the first two decades of my working career, our deductible was $500 per person. That was the norm for many years. As well as copay for most was either 80/20 or 90/10. At the beginning of the 2000's the deductible got higher and higher and higher. Premiums going up 5%, 7% a year.
Never did I ever think for 2 people I would be paying $576/mo for an 80/20 plan with a $2500/person - $5000 overall deductible. 20 years ago I paid close to half that for a family of 4 with $750/person deductible. WHAT CHANGED?? Why did it work then, and not now??

So then, why not Medicare for all? Or some other form of single payer?
My problems with it
1) It would be ran by the federal government. We are in-arguably no longer a Democratic Republic. We are a Corporatocracy. The federal government by a VERY large margin is more interested in providing representation to big money/special interest than you and I. BOTH parties. It isn't even close.
So why would I support a plan that puts these fuckers in charge of my healthcare? I guarantee they will screw it up. It will most certainly NOT improve our healthcare services. These useless corrupt pinheads can't work together to replace a roll of toilet paper without finger pointing and pointless arguments - let alone operate the world largest healthcare plan. Seriously.
2) I doubt it would be cheaper. Despite what Bernie says.
3) It would be egregiously unfair. Useless, lazy assholes would get the same services as I do but they won't pay a single penny for it! Not one dime. It would become a colossal entitlement expense that YOU and I would have to pay for. I have a problem with that.

Discuss

 

[Dekster]

I support the idea of single payer healthcare, and I don't worry about the cost so much as I believe that the quality of care would plummet and medical research would grind to a halt.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I support the idea of single payer healthcare, and I don't worry about the cost so much as I believe that the quality of care would plummet and medical research would grind to a halt.

I agree with your last point as well. I had to stop the first post before it became a book.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Medicare is broke in 5 yrs .....this would only break it quicker unless they piled on extra tax to save it making it more unaffordable.

 

[Third Party]

I had an operation 6 years ago with a $6000 deductible. I had to pay it, but the rest of the year, my bills were covered because I met the deductible. I had an operation 2 years ago and had to pay $1000 with Medicare. I still had to pay for prescriptions and visits. I could not have afforded the operations without insurance-as a catastrophic protection, insurance is great. Otherwise, healthcare costs money unless you have a government job.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

One main point is that most healthcare plans today are - NOT - healthcare plans. They are catastrophic-only plans being called healthcare plans.
When you have a deductible that is so high, the only way you are ever going to see any benefit is if you have a major incident - that is, by definition, a catastrophic plan. Only difference is that catastrophic care plans were less than $200/mo. Now you pay triple that, and you get a card that says you have regular insurance.

 

[Wry Catcher]

First of all, let me say I am not against anything that works well despite whose idea it is, or whether other conservatives like or dislike it, nor whether it was a Democrat or Republican idea.
Believe it or not, this is how America USE to operate. Mostly.
Private/company provided healthcare insurance is broke as fuck people. PERIOD.
It costs way too much, covers way too little, has way too high deductibles and many plans are now even reducing the copay to 70/30. (without lowering the premium)
Other companies are reducing/removing wellness incentives. Most people pay and pay and pay and get next to nothing from their plans due to extremely high deductibles. What good is paying $500-$800 a month for insurance when you rarely, if ever get to use it??
For the first two decades of my working career, our deductible was $500 per person. That was the norm for many years. As well as copay for most was either 80/20 or 90/10. At the beginning of the 2000's the deductible got higher and higher and higher. Premiums going up 5%, 7% a year.
Never did I ever think for 2 people I would be paying $576/mo for an 80/20 plan with a $2500/person - $5000 overall deductible. 20 years ago I paid close to half that for a family of 4 with $750/person deductible. WHAT CHANGED?? Why did it work then, and not now??

So then, why not Medicare for all? Or some other form of single payer?
My problems with it
1) It would be ran by the federal government. We are in-arguably no longer a Democratic Republic. We are a Corporatocracy. The federal government by a VERY large margin is more interested in providing representation to big money/special interest than you and I. BOTH parties. It isn't even close.
So why would I support a plan that puts these fuckers in charge of my healthcare? I guarantee they will screw it up. It will most certainly NOT improve our healthcare services. These useless corrupt pinheads can't work together to replace a roll of toilet paper without finger pointing and pointless arguments - let alone operate the world largest healthcare plan. Seriously.
2) I doubt it would be cheaper. Despite what Bernie says.
3) It would be egregiously unfair. Useless, lazy assholes would get the same services as I do but they won't pay a single penny for it! Not one dime. It would become a colossal entitlement expense that YOU and I would have to pay for. I have a problem with that.

Discuss

Q. What is more important to the average American Family

A. The health of their family

Q. What is most important to the average corporation

A. Profit.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Bump
This thread died too soon

 

[forkup]

Bump
This thread died too soon

I'm willing to discuss it. I'm European though so I have a different perspective on it. You say you are an honest conservative. Are you willing to discuss it without reverting to prejudice?

 

[forkup]

First of all, let me say I am not against anything that works well despite whose idea it is, or whether other conservatives like or dislike it, nor whether it was a Democrat or Republican idea.
Believe it or not, this is how America USE to operate. Mostly.
Private/company provided healthcare insurance is broke as fuck people. PERIOD.
It costs way too much, covers way too little, has way too high deductibles and many plans are now even reducing the copay to 70/30. (without lowering the premium)
Other companies are reducing/removing wellness incentives. Most people pay and pay and pay and get next to nothing from their plans due to extremely high deductibles. What good is paying $500-$800 a month for insurance when you rarely, if ever get to use it??
For the first two decades of my working career, our deductible was $500 per person. That was the norm for many years. As well as copay for most was either 80/20 or 90/10. At the beginning of the 2000's the deductible got higher and higher and higher. Premiums going up 5%, 7% a year.
Never did I ever think for 2 people I would be paying $576/mo for an 80/20 plan with a $2500/person - $5000 overall deductible. 20 years ago I paid close to half that for a family of 4 with $750/person deductible. WHAT CHANGED?? Why did it work then, and not now??

So then, why not Medicare for all? Or some other form of single payer?
My problems with it
1) It would be ran by the federal government. We are in-arguably no longer a Democratic Republic. We are a Corporatocracy. The federal government by a VERY large margin is more interested in providing representation to big money/special interest than you and I. BOTH parties. It isn't even close.
So why would I support a plan that puts these fuckers in charge of my healthcare? I guarantee they will screw it up. It will most certainly NOT improve our healthcare services. These useless corrupt pinheads can't work together to replace a roll of toilet paper without finger pointing and pointless arguments - let alone operate the world largest healthcare plan. Seriously.
2) I doubt it would be cheaper. Despite what Bernie says.
3) It would be egregiously unfair. Useless, lazy assholes would get the same services as I do but they won't pay a single penny for it! Not one dime. It would become a colossal entitlement expense that YOU and I would have to pay for. I have a problem with that.

Discuss

1. You admit it yourself. Politicians already cater to business. Big business is now directly in charge of medical care. So even in your worst-case scenario wouldn't it be preferable to at least put politicians in charge and therefore more accountable for it? As it is now they can shrug they're shoulder and put the blame on other people. You do have a point though. As long as it takes millions or in the case of the president billions of dollars to get elected, politicians will have to look to wealthy donors to get into office. In Europe we solve that by making parties publicly funded and private donations illegal. Would you be for that?
2. Not for nothing most developed nations have socialized medicine. They are ALL cheaper. It seems to me that your fear isn't born out by the facts.
3. Yes but it's also possible that you will develop some medical condition that would require more funds than you put into the system to treat. At that point, you would still have the right to treatment. Paying taxes for healthcare is the same as for all insurances. You pay for something you hope you don't need but want to pay for the security it offers.

 

[TNHarley]

Our fed gov are morons.
Our fed gov is most of the reason why costs are so high in the marketplace to begin with. Why give the idiots more power when they are the ones that fucked it all up?
Then again, what other choice do we have? Our voting block is physically and emotionally lazy. And entitled.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Bump
This thread died too soon

I'm willing to discuss it. I'm European though so I have a different perspective on it. You say you are an honest conservative. Are you willing to discuss it without reverting to prejudice?

I opened the thread didn't I?
Are you?

 

[forkup]

Bump
This thread died too soon

I'm willing to discuss it. I'm European though so I have a different perspective on it. You say you are an honest conservative. Are you willing to discuss it without reverting to prejudice?

I opened the thread didn't I?
Are you?

Already did. I started by addressing your 3 problems.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Our fed gov are morons.
Our fed gov is most of the reason why costs are so high in the marketplace to begin with. Why give the idiots more power when they are the ones that fucked it all up?
Then again, what other choice do we have? Our voting block is physically and emotionally lazy. And entitled.

One of many of your dumbest posts.

"Our fed gov are morons" If the "fed gov" is fed, would it be smarter?

"Why give the idiots more power when they are the ones that fucked it all up?"

Huh, "when did the idiots fuck it all up"? I suppose we can blame the signers of the Constitution who supported the Electoral College, look at the idiot who became President in 2017.

Who is part of your voting block? These:

 

[TNHarley]

Our fed gov are morons.
Our fed gov is most of the reason why costs are so high in the marketplace to begin with. Why give the idiots more power when they are the ones that fucked it all up?
Then again, what other choice do we have? Our voting block is physically and emotionally lazy. And entitled.

One of many of your dumbest posts.

"Our fed gov are morons" If the "fed gov" is fed, would it be smarter?

"Why give the idiots more power when they are the ones that fucked it all up?"

Huh, "when did the idiots fuck it all up"? I suppose we can blame the signers of the Constitution who supported the Electoral College, look at the idiot who became President in 2017.

Who is part of your voting block? These:

View attachment 263712

Wtf is this shit?

 

[dblack]

One main point is that most healthcare plans today are - NOT - healthcare plans. They are catastrophic-only plans being called healthcare plans.
When you have a deductible that is so high, the only way you are ever going to see any benefit is if you have a major incident - that is, by definition, a catastrophic plan. Only difference is that catastrophic care plans were less than $200/mo. Now you pay triple that, and you get a card that says you have regular insurance.

That's the only way insurance can work.

The single biggest problem with health care today is that hardly anyone is paying for their own. We spent the better part of a century chasing down ill-conceived schemes to get out of paying for health care. It didn't work. All it did was drive prices sky-high. Now we have to bite the bullet and get off the insurance gravy-train. It'll take a few years, but if we can back to paying for most of our health care ourselves, prices will come down.

Or we can let them use it as an excuse to socialize health care, and then worry every election whether they next regime will let grandma live or not.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

First of all, let me say I am not against anything that works well despite whose idea it is, or whether other conservatives like or dislike it, nor whether it was a Democrat or Republican idea.

most people can agree , until you hit a democratic socialist

1/2/3 on the money sir