An Extra Million Dollars?

All I am reasonable certain of is this...

If you start out your life as an adult with a degree that is meaningless in the job market AND you're carrying $40-100,000 in college debts, too, you either have to be damned lucky or VERY WELL CONNECTED to find a job that is going to give you enough money to thrive in this economy.

Now as to how to guide your kids to find their way in this ever constantly changing economy I do NOT know.

I believe me, I sincerely wish I did, too.

Twenty years ago anyone who was even modestly comfortable around computers could make a damned fine living repairing them, or making them work.

No longer...

Now did those people really screw up?

Of course they didn't.

Conditions changed and they changed so rapidly that most people could not cope with those changes.

It is perfectly fine to tell somebody just starting out with no debts and no obligation out to change careers paths or to go back to school.

But when your career path ends in midlife?

Hey, going back to school typically isn't a real option.

And even when you do, an employer who is considering you is apt to want to hire the younger person than the returning older employee.

Our world is changing faster than it ever had in human history.

People cannot simply turn on a dime and reinvent themselves, folks.

I am reasonable certain that the older you are, the more obvious that must be to you.

It's hard for kids just starting out to get, of course, because their life is free and clear and they have years to get it right.

But comes the time when the years to try grow fewer, and your employment options are diminishing because you are older, then the world isn't nothing but opportunity waiting for you.

I would not be at all surprise if we did a study to disover that in the last ten years, MOST college degrees were NOT worth the investment.

And as the rest of the world catches up to us, and as there are more and more highly intelligent people who can do engineers and those currently GOLDEN CAREERS that exist today, I expect that some of you kids currently sitting in the catbird seat of employment are in for a terribly eye opening experience about how easily YOU can be replaced by a third world kid just out of school, too.

Education is its own reward, folks.

It is NOT a ticket to the upper crust of society.

That ticket is usually given to you at birth, not earned by pluck and luck.
 
and that should tell you exactly how meaningful a degree is now.

I dunno... he's still making millions because he got the degree. So is it meaningless?

More to the point, I think the people who are talking about different degrees providing different net benefits are more on the money.

I mean, an engineering degree is still worth something, I'd say...as is a law degree.
 
oh, and my nephew borrowed no money for the college degree...

How did he managed that?

The first 2 years, which took 4 years, he was an auto mechanic and made enough to pay for the local college himself, he lived with my mother in law, who essentially was his mom, for free...

The next 2 years, which also took four years, the fire dept had an increased education program that paid a good portion of his degree and also, he was making decent money and still living with my mother in law, for free, until he got married, about a year after his degree....

my sister in law, had him at 14 years old, married the boy who fathered him, he later went to prison and.....she later became a drug addict and still is one, on the streets today....my mother in law, reared him as her own child....not a grand child....my husband thought of him as a younger brother....

Great kid/adult.....greatful my sister in law had him and did not abort him....she, is a loser though....has been her whole life, with just a couple of years of being on the wagon and off alcohol and drugs....and during that time period....she was the most lovely woman, smart as can be, with a great personality and showed great love towards Daniel, but outside of those few years, she's been wasted.

care

That's an amazing story. Your nephew was lucky to have those loving family members around him. It is a story of courage, initiative, and persistence. Thank you for sharing it.
 
All I am reasonable certain of is this...

If you start out your life as an adult with a degree that is meaningless in the job market AND you're carrying $40-100,000 in college debts, too, you either have to be damned lucky or VERY WELL CONNECTED to find a job that is going to give you enough money to thrive in this economy.

Now as to how to guide your kids to find their way in this ever constantly changing economy I do NOT know.

I believe me, I sincerely wish I did, too.

Twenty years ago anyone who was even modestly comfortable around computers could make a damned fine living repairing them, or making them work.

No longer...

Now did those people really screw up?

Of course they didn't.

Conditions changed and they changed so rapidly that most people could not cope with those changes.

It is perfectly fine to tell somebody just starting out with no debts and no obligation out to change careers paths or to go back to school.

But when your career path ends in midlife?

Hey, going back to school typically isn't a real option.

And even when you do, an employer who is considering you is apt to want to hire the younger person than the returning older employee.

Our world is changing faster than it ever had in human history.

People cannot simply turn on a dime and reinvent themselves, folks.

I am reasonable certain that the older you are, the more obvious that must be to you.

It's hard for kids just starting out to get, of course, because their life is free and clear and they have years to get it right.

But comes the time when the years to try grow fewer, and your employment options are diminishing because you are older, then the world isn't nothing but opportunity waiting for you.

I would not be at all surprise if we did a study to disover that in the last ten years, MOST college degrees were NOT worth the investment.

And as the rest of the world catches up to us, and as there are more and more highly intelligent people who can do engineers and those currently GOLDEN CAREERS that exist today, I expect that some of you kids currently sitting in the catbird seat of employment are in for a terribly eye opening experience about how easily YOU can be replaced by a third world kid just out of school, too.

Education is its own reward, folks.

It is NOT a ticket to the upper crust of society.

That ticket is usually given to you at birth, not earned by pluck and luck.

Editec, we're at opposite ends on a lot of issues, but not this one. There is a lot of truth in your post, especially how things can turn on a dime.

Care4all's story above is one of "pluck and luck."
 
How did he managed that?

The first 2 years, which took 4 years, he was an auto mechanic and made enough to pay for the local college himself, he lived with my mother in law, who essentially was his mom, for free...

The next 2 years, which also took four years, the fire dept had an increased education program that paid a good portion of his degree and also, he was making decent money and still living with my mother in law, for free, until he got married, about a year after his degree....

my sister in law, had him at 14 years old, married the boy who fathered him, he later went to prison and.....she later became a drug addict and still is one, on the streets today....my mother in law, reared him as her own child....not a grand child....my husband thought of him as a younger brother....

Great kid/adult.....greatful my sister in law had him and did not abort him....she, is a loser though....has been her whole life, with just a couple of years of being on the wagon and off alcohol and drugs....and during that time period....she was the most lovely woman, smart as can be, with a great personality and showed great love towards Daniel, but outside of those few years, she's been wasted.

care

That's an amazing story. Your nephew was lucky to have those loving family members around him. It is a story of courage, initiative, and persistence. Thank you for sharing it.

Oh, he had a support system second to none, with his grandparents, (after his grandpa died just his grandma) and his uncles, my husband and my husband's brother....they were from very humble beginnings though....poor as dirt, but Daniel got all the right essentials, all the right stuff! thank Goodness, it usually does NOT turn out that way....

I think his driving force, deep inside, was that he just didn't want to end up like his mother..... :(
 
I should clarify one thing... not only did my sisters get degrees, they got good degrees. Poli-Sci and Law for one and Communications for the other. The lawyer married an MBA Engineer in the oil business and the other married a lawyer.

The kids need to be told that a degree in social services is less valuable than a degree in engineering, although both cost about the same to obtain.

-Joe

That's actually true. Although, I'm not sure I'd recommend a political science degree (which was one of mine) unless one is planning to go to teach or go to graduate school or do the degree in conjunction with a double major in journalism or communications (like your sister).

As for going straight from high school, I don't think that was the initial question. And certainly no one should waste money on college for someone who isn't ready for it and doesn't know what they want to do. I'd give them a year or two to "find themselves" but then they would have to go back to school.

Political Science was a stepping-stone degree a.k.a. 'Pre-Law'. My sister made decisions about her 50's when she was in her 20's. Thinking that far ahead was not my forte and of her I am both proud and envious... she chose wisely, Grasshopper... among her good ones was marrying an engineer. I liked him then and I like him now. I'm sure that there are parts of my more bohemian life that are subject to envy too, but retirement ain't one of 'em.

-Joe
 
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So many students are "forced" into going to college straight out of high school because there doesn't seem to be too many viable options.

I TOTALLY hear that ... but I also don't see the big deal in taking some time off before going to college.

I think some parents have a fear that if their kids don't go straight to college out of high school that they many never go. So many parents love to brag about their kids going to college (even the meaning of a bachelor's degree has diminished greatly).

College or University education was a visible fence between the classes for all but the last generation in this ride we are calling 'Western Civilization'. Can you blame them?

Especially if they are old enough to know shit from Shinola in 1935.

-Joe
 
Were you raised in a household where your mom or dad told you that in order for you to be successful that you had to go to college? Aside from the status factor – to be able to say that you have a degree, do you come out ahead financially after college, considering all the debts and the time you put in? Would you have been better off going straight into the labor market in an area that you knew and liked?

I would like your opinion, especially from those who didn’t go the college route. Here’s what brought up the question:



Read full article at below link.

John Stossel : The College Scam - Townhall.com
I wasn't able to do the college route for various reasons. Left home before my twelfe birthday. Took a lot of hard knocks along the way. Would not go back and change any of it.

Self taught artist. At 23 started doing artwork for businesses. Within 8 years earned more per hour than most attorney's or doctor's out there. It was only part time but great fun and it has paid well over the years.

At twenty five started contracting services from storm damage repair for insurance companies to services for DOT. Eventually provided jobs for another forty souls out there.

The contracting business rated a BB2 with D&B in less than ten years. With the contracting business I started Rod bought his heavy equipment free and clear, with my share I paid for property investments that eventually paid fairly well.

We had a lot of family time along the way.

At forty we owned everything free and clear from our own 5,000 sq ft house to rentals, property and the heavy equipment. I semi retired for a few years Rod continued doing his thing with his heavy equipment.

Started a mining operation.

Literally went from rags to riches back to rags again after the last adventure (the mining operation that I refused to sell out and certain peoples took me out). The potential of the mine was easily several million a year.

I have an awesome husband/partner. That helped more than anything in the fact he was my backbone when I was ready to call it quits many times.

Down side. Been accused many of times over the years of a lot of different things. The normal was we were drug dealers and mob related to I slept my way to the top. I assured a one of rumor weeds that was on one of my jobsites if "I was inclined to do that it I would surely have chosen a different line of work don't ya think?"

Bravo! This is exactly the kind of answer I was interested in. Thanks.

Inspiring, I agree; but not typical. Bravo nonetheless.

-Joe
 
[Stossel : The College Scam - Townhall.com[/URL]

If one does a cost analysis of college by majors, I suspect that what one would find is that some degrees offer a good return on investment and others do not.

And the fact that which degrees are rewarded has been changing dramatically in my lifetime certainly makes deciding which area to study problematic.


So true. I believe that we are doing a great disservice to students who are not made aware of this fact. We tell kids to just pick what they like and "you'll never do a day of work in your life." We need to make it a bit more clear.

The government makes health benefits known for various diets, but we rarely see the same thing for career choices. Sociology majors rarely see the same results as physics majors.

If i had a child of college age, i would suggest that they should get in to the medical field....expecially with all the boomers hitting their senior years where doctors are used the most.

Not that they need to be a doctor, but even the technical schools for phlebotomists, and massage therapy, medical technologists, and lab technicians, and nurses and nurses aids...

and positions like that, which may not cost as much for the schooling on some and most certainly guaranteed a job for the next 40 years.

Otherwise, unless specifically focused, like a Law Degree or Medical Degree, college may never pay for itself, now a days....

College was reasonable when i was young and every kid who went to college that i personally knew, their parents paid for it.....my parents paid for it for my sister and me when we went....

Along with health care costs, colleges have gone up with double digit increases, well ABOVE the cost of living rate increase, for nearly 10 years now, something is wrong with that...imho.

Care

...and not just for the kids! My bride is heading off to nursing assistant school at the tender age of 47. A whole new career for her and a whole lot of demand here in Florida.

-Joe
 
All I am reasonable certain of is this...

If you start out your life as an adult with a degree that is meaningless in the job market AND you're carrying $40-100,000 in college debts, too, you either have to be damned lucky or VERY WELL CONNECTED to find a job that is going to give you enough money to thrive in this economy.

Now as to how to guide your kids to find their way in this ever constantly changing economy I do NOT know.

I believe me, I sincerely wish I did, too.

Twenty years ago anyone who was even modestly comfortable around computers could make a damned fine living repairing them, or making them work.

No longer...

Now did those people really screw up?

Of course they didn't.

Conditions changed and they changed so rapidly that most people could not cope with those changes.

It is perfectly fine to tell somebody just starting out with no debts and no obligation out to change careers paths or to go back to school.

But when your career path ends in midlife?

Hey, going back to school typically isn't a real option.

And even when you do, an employer who is considering you is apt to want to hire the younger person than the returning older employee.

Our world is changing faster than it ever had in human history.

People cannot simply turn on a dime and reinvent themselves, folks.

I am reasonable certain that the older you are, the more obvious that must be to you.

It's hard for kids just starting out to get, of course, because their life is free and clear and they have years to get it right.

But comes the time when the years to try grow fewer, and your employment options are diminishing because you are older, then the world isn't nothing but opportunity waiting for you.

I would not be at all surprise if we did a study to disover that in the last ten years, MOST college degrees were NOT worth the investment.

And as the rest of the world catches up to us, and as there are more and more highly intelligent people who can do engineers and those currently GOLDEN CAREERS that exist today, I expect that some of you kids currently sitting in the catbird seat of employment are in for a terribly eye opening experience about how easily YOU can be replaced by a third world kid just out of school, too.

Education is its own reward, folks.

It is NOT a ticket to the upper crust of society.

That ticket is usually given to you at birth, not earned by pluck and luck.

Nothing personal dude, but "Boo-hoo, Eyeore!"

It is all about decisions. Most revolving around how you prioritize material wealth, social wealth, spiritual wealth and carnal wealth. The fewer true regrets you have the happier you are. Like every other tool in your box, long range planning and thought can help, as long as you remember that it is a tool, not a reason.

-Joe
 
Nothing personal dude, but "Boo-hoo, Eyeore!"

It is all about decisions. Most revolving around how you prioritize material wealth, social wealth, spiritual wealth and carnal wealth. The fewer true regrets you have the happier you are. Like every other tool in your box, long range planning and thought can help, as long as you remember that it is a tool, not a reason.

-Joe
Nice but most people are not encourage to try to live their life so they will not have regrets.
 
I was raised in a family where college was completely out of the question. It wasn't that education didn't matter it was more that there was no way we could afford it. All our earnings as kids went into the home. In our day learning a good trade was supposed to be the path to doing Ok. Wealth was looked at as more a class function, as most people who made it (still true) came from money. For a while I think college did equate to big money but I'm not sure any longer. Wages for all have deteriorated since the demise of union participation. I don't think people realize that union salaries created a comfortable middle class for all since employees bargained for good employees regardless of a union shop. Today even skilled people compete with off shoring which lowered all wages. The only benefit my college degree gave me which came later in life was the ability to teach handicapped kids computer skills. A degree was required. For my corporate job it may have helped a little moving up the food chain but much of that is being in the right field at the right time and having the ability and luck and friends to get up that next step.
 
[Stossel : The College Scam - Townhall.com[/URL]




So true. I believe that we are doing a great disservice to students who are not made aware of this fact. We tell kids to just pick what they like and "you'll never do a day of work in your life." We need to make it a bit more clear.

The government makes health benefits known for various diets, but we rarely see the same thing for career choices. Sociology majors rarely see the same results as physics majors.

If i had a child of college age, i would suggest that they should get in to the medical field....expecially with all the boomers hitting their senior years where doctors are used the most.

Not that they need to be a doctor, but even the technical schools for phlebotomists, and massage therapy, medical technologists, and lab technicians, and nurses and nurses aids...

and positions like that, which may not cost as much for the schooling on some and most certainly guaranteed a job for the next 40 years.

Otherwise, unless specifically focused, like a Law Degree or Medical Degree, college may never pay for itself, now a days....

College was reasonable when i was young and every kid who went to college that i personally knew, their parents paid for it.....my parents paid for it for my sister and me when we went....

Along with health care costs, colleges have gone up with double digit increases, well ABOVE the cost of living rate increase, for nearly 10 years now, something is wrong with that...imho.

Care

...and not just for the kids! My bride is heading off to nursing assistant school at the tender age of 47. A whole new career for her and a whole lot of demand here in Florida.

-Joe

Good for your wife! I believe that is a very noble career. Sounds smart as well.
 
Some of the most successful people i have met did not have college degrees.

Thanks for your response.
What age group are you referring to?
Would it apply to students today that are of college age?

This current economic meltdown might be an impetus for more people to head right into the workforce.

I also suspect that children are not aware what kind of debt they will be incurring since colleges (with billion $ endowments) won't be giving any breaks anytime soon.

I have a son who just turned 18 so most of the people i referenced are my age, early to mid forties, or older.

My son does not really have a clue about what he wants to do. he is working and taking classes part time at a local state u. I have no problem with this.

He is really into music and is a pretty good guitar player but there really is not a future as a musician for him other than a garage band or local club gig and that's cool but it's not a living.

I advised him to work, try different things get a gig as an intern at a radio station things like that and I also advised him to travel.

I am of the opinion that real world experiences and not a mere continuation of high school will do him the most good right now.
.
 

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