An experience of universal healthcare

[mudwhistle]

During the last few months I have faced a fairly serious illness, and thought it might be interesting for US posters to know how the system works here.

I initially saw a private doctor, as I had sore ribs after a football accident the previous evening and wanted to get it checked out the same day. A consultation and an X-ray set me back €120, and after that I was referred to the public sector. (Had I gone to a public sector doctor, I'd probably have waited 3-4 days and not been able to choose an appointment time)

After a delay of one week I had a few hours worth of tests, and then waited another week to meet with a specialist. After the meeting with the specialist on a Friday, I began treatment the following Wednesday.

The half-day of testing cost me €29, and the meeting with the specialist another €29. I did spend €77 on medications, but from that point on all of the treatment has been completely free, based on the specialists recommendation. So the total cost of the entire treatment program will be around €150.

To my mind, the service has been amazing. All of the people I have met have been fantastic. The facilities and equipment have been state of the art, the nurses friendly and helpful, and the service excellent.

Healthcare may not be as good in every country that has universal healthcare, but my experience has convinced me that the service we get here is likely as good as most hospitals in the US - and it is covered efficiently and easily through my taxes. It's available to everyone, it is fast and it works.

We can't expect the same kind of system in this country. The Democrats are so corrupt that they cannot be trusted. Germany has a pretty good healthcare system. It's single-payer as well. But then again we're talking about Germans, not corrupt American politicians.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Want to compare birth mortality rates?

Sure, let's compare. We're looking at the black box of health care, keep that in mind. You don't get to steal a base by penalizing the US for having a black population with a genetic predisposition towards higher infant mortality rates, higher twinning rates, higher rates of low birth weight babies, higher rates of very low birth weight babies, because none of these factors have anything to do with the black box of health care systems.

So let's start. Compare European to American white, that way we don't have racial confounding issues.

We first need to examine higher risk multiple births. Here's European data:

Here's American data. Pay attention to the non-Hispanic white rate. Our of curiosity you may want to note the naturally higher black rate. Would you look at that, the white multiple birth rate is 38.3 per 1,000 births, which is far higher than the European rates of multiple births. Why don't you take a wild guess as to WHY American women have a higher multiple birth rate.

What's associated with multiple births? How about low birth weight. Why don't we take a look at how many babies are born with low birth weight.

Would you look at that. European and American white rates of low birth weight and very low birth weight appear to be in the same range despite American women having noticeably higher rates of multiple birth. How much of a fetal mortality risk is associated with multiple birth? Here's some data, in Table E, we see that twins have a 2.87x higher risk of mortality than do singletons and multiples have a 4.87x higher risk of mortality.

Let me ask you, does the HEALTH SYSTEM have any influence over women presenting with twins or multiples?

Oh, while I have the chart below under discussion, look at Table D and note the American white rate of birth by women under 20, who represent 7.4% of all births and 9.5% of fetal deaths. This compares to rates in Switzerland of about 1% and a European mean (boosted by Eastern Europe) of about 5%.

So how risky is birth to women under the age of 20? A woman between ages of 15-19 actually has a higher rate of delivering at less than 34 weeks than a woman aged 35-39.

So now the ball is in your court. You said you wanted to talk about the superior European health system's influence on perinatal mortality rates. OK, show me your cards, show me a study which controls for race, controls for rates of multiple births, rates of older mothers and rates of younger mothers.

Let's see how the HEALTH SYSTEM delivers better results by excluding the factors which affect perinatal mortality rates but have nothing to do with the health care SYSTEM. And one other thing, you know, just to spice things up a bit, find a study which controls for vehicular accidents per 100,000 residents because the US, with it's wide expanses of roads, is a world leader in this regard, with 11.6 deaths per 100,000 residents compared to 3.5 per 100,000 for countries like Ireland, and when a pregnant women suffers trauma due to a vehicular accident and loses her child, that death is counted in the perinatal mortality data but the death was not attributable to the health care system.

So yeah, let's compare - I want to see your studies which look at the effect of SYSTEM on OUTCOME.

 

[Conservative65]

You need ObamaCare

For what reason? Someone without coverage didn't need the government creating a system or even getting involved. All they needed was a self proclaimed, good intentioned, do nothing bleeding heart Liberal to prove they were as compasionate as they say. Since Liberals are more about seeing how much the other guy can provide to the government on another person's behalf, we all know that would have never happened when it was all that needed to be done in order for those who didn't have coverage to get it. It makes you wonder why Liberal want all the bureaucracy of government involved when all it takes is individuals saying something needs to happen to just do it and go on their way. One thing I noticed with my challenge to them is that far too many say they would IF they could but others who can afford it should do it because they can. I have a problem with anyone saying something should be done then admitting they can't do what they think someone else should be forced to pay for.

 

[Conservative65]

ERNIE!!!!!!!

Under your desired system LOTS of people never.......aw......fuck it! You need help.

It doens't take the government doing a damn thing if you believe someone without coverage should have it. It takes the one thinking that other person should have it buying it for them.