An example of the vast majority

Hey Y'all. There was a lot of traffic on the boards as I slept. whats the deal? Y'all don't sleep? Y'all can't get a date? C'mon give.

Anyway I notice that war was averted by some hasty diplomacy on this thread. Good job all. :clap:

To the original quedstion by DrugWar. Yes, a Marine receiving the Navy Cross is news! Not only is it factual reporting of an incident of combat, it serves to publically reward a hero. We do it all the time with sports stars, but we call it endorsements. Yes, it is news of the human nature variety as well. IMO we need more of that as long as it is factual and not opinionated. Finally it provides a balance to the never ending prison and contractor stories.

Your next assertation about the anti war media mindset at the beginning of the war is wrong depending on where you were. I was stationed at Camp Pendleton at the time. I would release my Marines from training and as we left the area I would loudly counsel them [parade ground bellow] "DO NOT KICK THE WAR PROTESTORS ASS. THEY ARE AN ENDANGERD SPECIES PROTECTED BY THE STATE. I SAY AGAIN, DO NOT KICK THE WAR PROTESTORS ASS." [/bellow]

My unit left for Iraq about three days after the first protestors showed up. That was about four weeks before crossing the Line of Departure. Every protest was covered in loving detail by the local San Diego media. The only troop movements covered were when the ships left. The troops airlifted got nada, zip, zilch.

Finally, here are some other facts that didn't make the news yet.
This list is current as of December Last Year. I amsure we could add to it by now

-----Original Message-----
From: Deleted to preserve the CO's identity
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:40 AM
Subject: ACCOMPLISHMENTS



Marines and Sailors,

As we approach the end of the year I think it is important
to share a few thoughts about what you've accomplished directly,
in some cases, and indirectly in many others. I am speaking about
what the Bush Administration and each of you has contributed by wearing
the uniform, because the fact that you wear the uniform contributes
100% to the capability of the nation to send a few onto the field to
execute national policy. As you read about these achievements you are
a part of I would call your attention to two things:

1. This is good news that hasn't been fit to print or report on TV.
2. It is much easier to point out the errors a man makes when he makes
the tough decisions, rarely is the positive as aggressively pursued.



Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1...

... the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active
duty.

... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.

... nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.

... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.

... on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the
prewar average.

... all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open,
as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.

... by October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500
more than scheduled.

... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.

... all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.

... doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam.

... pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700
tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.

... the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to
Iraq's children.

... a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000
kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of
farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and
women.

... we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and
over two-thirds of the potable water production.

... there are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by
year-end.

... the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes
to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and
towns.

... 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time
customers are opening accounts daily.

... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.

... the central bank is fully independent.

... Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and banking
laws.

... Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.

... satellite TV dishes are legal.

... foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and
extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and other
government spies.

... there is no Ministry of Information.

... there are more than 170 newspapers.

... you can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.

... foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.

... a nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or
executive - of a representative government, now does.

... in Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils.
Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the
city council elected its new chairman.

... today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional
organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.

... 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in
Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government.

... the Iraqi government regularly participates in international events.
Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen
international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab
League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30
Iraqi embassies around the world.

... Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't.

... for the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites
celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.

... the Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large
and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.

... Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the
zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation,
torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.

... children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with
the government.

... political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or
are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.

... millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.

... Saudis will hold municipal elections.

... Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.

... Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.

... the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian -- a
Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and
for peace.

... Saddam is gone.

... Iraq is free.

... President Bush has not faltered or failed.

... Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the Press
corps that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's important.

Iraq under US lead control has come further in six months than Germany did
in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military deaths
from fanatic Nazi's, and Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued
for over three years after WWII victory was declared.

It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let
alone attempt to build something else in its place.

Now, take into account that Congress fought President Bush on every aspect
of his handling of this country's war and the post-war reconstruction; and
that they continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this conflict
has been a failure.

Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate loss of our brothers
and sisters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the world could
have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush administration
in so short a period of time?

These are things worth writing about. Get the word out. Write to someone you
think may be able to influence our Congress or the press to tell the story.

Above all, be proud that you are a part of this historical precedent.

God Bless you all. Have a great Holiday.

Semper Fidelis,

CO
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Notice, notice well, that it was a MARINE that did this. not some army or air force puke. A MARINE. OOHRAAHHHHHH :usa:

As a 60% serviced connected disabled veteran of the great United States Air Force, eight years, I take offense to that.

I don't think anyone should be disrespecting ANY branch of the military. They are all there and they are all engaged in a dangerous war with a blood lusting animal enemy.

And ESPECIALLY if you've never SERVED. You haven't EARNED the RIGHT!
 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Notice, notice well, that it was a MARINE that did this. not some army or air force puke. A MARINE. OOHRAAHHHHHH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a 60% serviced connected disabled veteran of the great United States Air Force, eight years, I take offense to that.

I don't think anyone should be disrespecting ANY branch of the military. They are all there and they are all engaged in a dangerous war with a blood lusting animal enemy.

And ESPECIALLY if you've never SERVED. You haven't EARNED the RIGHT!

EZ Turbo! If I got ticked each time I heard a member of the Hair Force talking bout us Jarheads (My dad was a USAAF member during WW2 and you should hear him talk) then the butt kickings wouldn't end. Relax we are (for the most of us) on your side.
 
pegwinn,
To the original quedstion by DrugWar. Yes, a Marine receiving the Navy Cross is news! Not only is it factual reporting of an incident of combat, it serves to publically reward a hero. We do it all the time with sports stars, but we call it endorsements.
We can argue forever if this is news, but regardless I dont think it makes a big difference in the lives of most americans or any other people around the world. I hate it when they do it for sports, its even worse when they do it for sports because in the end they mean nothing.
Dont get me wrong there is a time and a place for both. I love sports, but thats what ESPN is for I dont need 10 minutes of my very brief 30 minute local news taken up by talk of when nomar will be back and what him and Mia Hamm are up to. At the same time however true and noble it might be that this marine earned a navy cross it is not important enought to the general public to be on the local or national news...save it for dateline or 60 minutes.
By the way I agree the prisoner abuse thing is taking up too much time. I think it should have been mentioned and we should be updated on it, but commone how many times we need to see those pics.
As far as the navy cross story being important for national moral or something to that effect, I would only say that if our national pride is that fragile then that in itself is a bigger story then all the rest.
 
As to the memorandum you left below...Do these things sell? Do you think people are interested in the fact that Iraq has such and such number of schools in operation? Maybe they should but they dont. Once again the media reports what will make them MONEY nothing more nothing less.
 
Originally posted by Drug_War
pegwinn,

We can argue forever if this is news, but regardless I dont think it makes a big difference in the lives of most americans or any other people around the world. I hate it when they do it for sports, its even worse when they do it for sports because in the end they mean nothing.
You're right, it didn't make a bit of difference in the world except for the Iraqi's who's life was indirectly changed for the better because the young Captain risked his all for the sake of his Marines and the locals.
Originally posted by Drug_War Dont get me wrong there is a time and a place for both. I love sports, but thats what ESPN is for I dont need 10 minutes of my very brief 30 minute local news taken up by talk of when nomar will be back and what him and Mia Hamm are up to. At the same time however true and noble it might be that this marine earned a navy cross it is not important enought to the general public to be on the local or national news...save it for dateline or 60 minutes.
I'd be happy to see his story on 60 minutes. But they are committed to scandalizing and making you and i believe that nothing good is going on.
Originally posted by Drug_War By the way I agree the prisoner abuse thing is taking up too much time. I think it should have been mentioned and we should be updated on it, but commone how many times we need to see those pics.
As far as the navy cross story being important for national moral or something to that effect, I would only say that if our national pride is that fragile then that in itself is a bigger story then all the rest.
Since we agree on one item there is hope for you yet LOL.

Now as to the list I posted of good things going on, I'd say that the good guys are winning. My point is that in a supposedly free society, why is information restricted to those with apolitical agenda, especially when the restricting agency isn't even a part of the government. Maybe we should recreate the newsreels ala WW2 and focus on the good. Maybe show them in theaters........
 
Originally posted by Drug_War
Really? Maybe I should watch fox more often.


At one point would you say it would be a "proven fact". Your statement is illogical you are saying that until it is proven that they dont exist, they do exist and therefore until we find them still exist, and if we do find them well then of course they still exist. Interesting how that always works out that they do exsist.



What number would you consider high? In the logic of Madeline Albright what number would be worth it?

Hans Blix saays they don't exist, and our own weapons inspectors sent in after Iraq fell says they don't exist. How much more proof do you need that there are no WMD's ...How much more proof do you need that the whole pretext for going to war with Iraq was a lie?
 
Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Hans Blix saays they don't exist, and our own weapons inspectors sent in after Iraq fell says they don't exist. How much more proof do you need that there are no WMD's ...How much more proof do you need that the whole pretext for going to war with Iraq was a lie?

I guess you missed the part where Hans Blix reported to the UN several times that Iraq remained in material breach of the resolutions. I guess you also missed the part where he said they never fully cooperated. You further missed the part where he stated the thousands of chemicals that were declared and accounted for in 1998 before inspectors were tossed out could no longer be accounted for. He also stated he directly requested proof of their whereabouts or proof of destruction several times only to have his questions fall on deaf ears.

Throughout the past 14 months I have heard GWB called a liar about 3,000 times but have yet to see any concrete proof of this. The only lies I see are coming from Bush bashers and flip flopping democrats who declared the very same statements as GWB. Funny how it's always conveniently forgotten to call them liars as well.
 
Originally posted by Merlin1047
Thousands of articles and pictures of Iraqi's stacked naked, but only silence on this. It's bad enough that foreigners and muslims seize every opportunity to pillory our country and our troops and our president. But when our own politicians line up to join in the feeding frenzy, that is beyond simply unpatriotic. It is flat-out criminal. Bet we won't hear anything from kennedy, kerry, sharpton, kucinich, edwards, dean, billory, byrd et al about this article. Unless, of course, they think that there is some way they can milk this for their own gain.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE NEWS

Maybe you'd like to hear about something other than idiot Reservists and naked Iraqis.

Maybe you'd like to hear about a real American, somebody who honored the uniform he wears.

Meet Brian Chontosh.

Churchville-Chili Central School class of 1991. Proud graduate of the Rochester Institute of Technology. Husband and about-to-be father. First Lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps. And a genuine hero.

The Secretary of the Navy said so yesterday. At 29 Palms in California Brian Chontosh was presented with the Navy Cross, the second highest award for combat bravery the United States can bestow.

That's a big deal.

But you won't see it on the network news tonight, and all you read in Brian's hometown newspaper are two paragraphs of nothing. Instead, it was more blather about some mentally defective MPs who acted like animals.

The odd fact about the American media in this war is that it's not covering the American military. The most plugged-in nation in the world is receiving virtually no true information about what its warriors are doing.

Oh, sure, there's a body count. We know how many Americans have fallen. And we see those same casket pictures day in and day out. And we're almost on a first-name basis with the pukes who abused the Iraqi prisoners. And we know all about improvised explosive devices and how we lost Fallujah and what Arab public-opinion polls say about us and how the world hates us.

We get a non-stop feed of gloom and doom.

But we don't hear about the heroes.

The incredibly brave GIs who honorably do their duty. The ones our grandparents would have carried on their shoulders down Fifth Avenue.

The ones we completely ignore.

Like Brian Chontosh.

It was a year ago on the march into Baghdad. Brian Chontosh was a platoon leader rolling up Highway 1 in a humvee when all hell broke loose. Ambush city.

The young Marines were being cut to ribbons. Mortars, machine guns, rocket propelled grenades. And the kid out of Churchville was in charge. It was do or die and it was up to him. So he moved to the side of his column, looking for a way to lead his men to safety. As he tried to poke a hole through the Iraqi line his humvee came under direct enemy machine gun fire.

It was fish in a barrel and the Marines were the fish.

And Brian Chontosh gave the order to attack. He told his driver to floor the humvee directly at the machine gun emplacement that was firing at them. And he had the guy on top with the .50 cal unload on them. Within moments there were Iraqis slumped across the machine gun and the young Marine urged his dirver to take the humvee directly into the Iraqi trench that was attacking his Marines.

Over into the battlement the humvee went and out the door Brian Chontosh bailed, carrying an M16 and a Beretta and 228 years of Marine Corps pride.

And he ran down the trench.

With its mortars and riflemen, machineguns and grenadiers.

And he killed them all.

He fought with the M16 until he was out of ammo. Then he fought with the Beretta until it was out of ammo. Then he picked up a dead man's AK47 and fought with that until it was out of ammo. Then he picked up another dead man's AK47 and fought with that until it was out of ammo. At one point he even fired a discarded Iraqi RPG into an enemy cluster, sending attackers flying with its grenade explosion.

When he was done Brian Chontosh had cleared 200 yards of entrenched Iraqis from his platoon's flank. He had killed more than 20 and wounded at least as many more.

But that's probably not how he would tell it. He would probably merely say that his Marines were in trouble, and he got them out of trouble. OohRah, and drive on.

"By his outstanding display of decisive leadership, unlimited courage in the face of heavy enemy fire, and utmost devotion to duty, 1st Lt. Chontosh reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service."

That's what the citation says.

And that's what nobody will hear.

That's what doesn't seem to be making the evening news. Accounts of American valor are dismissed by the press as propaganda, yet accounts of American difficulties are heralded as objectivity. It makes you wonder if the role of the media is to inform, or to depress - to report or to criticise. But I guess it doesn't matter.

We're going to turn out all right.

As long as men like Brian Chontosh wear our uniform.

<http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723>
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723
 
Originally posted by pegwinn
You're right, it didn't make a bit of difference in the world except for the Iraqi's who's life was indirectly changed for the better because the young Captain risked his all for the sake of his Marines and the locals.
I'd be happy to see his story on 60 minutes. But they are committed to scandalizing and making you and i believe that nothing good is going on.
Since we agree on one item there is hope for you yet LOL.

Now as to the list I posted of good things going on, I'd say that the good guys are winning. My point is that in a supposedly free society, why is information restricted to those with apolitical agenda, especially when the restricting agency isn't even a part of the government. Maybe we should recreate the newsreels ala WW2 and focus on the good. Maybe show them in theaters........
 
You obviously have not been reading the New York Times which has had critical articles on all the subjects you mentioned from the very beginning of the war.

Now we still see front page articles day after day on every angle of the U.S. prison "atrocities" but nothing about the gruesome beheading of an American civilian since the day it happened- not even one article examining the lack of any condemnation by heads of Arab states, the Muslim press or prominent "moderate" Muslim clergy. so much for "all the news that;s fit to print"!
 
The New York Times is fast becoming Kerry's newspaper of record. Today there is the front page postive story about Kerry's prep school days - trying to humanize the guy since he can't connect with voters on his own. Yesterday, another front page story tried to keep the "dream" ticket of Kerry and McCain alive even though Senator McCain has denied any interest in going over to the "dark side'a thousand times. Absolutely no news value - just more puff pieces for the Kerry campaign while painting everything going on in Iraq as going badly.

No links between the Saddam Hussein regime and the Islamic terrorists as the New York Times keeps saying? How about the fanatic Zarqwa who beheaded Berk, crying something like "Allah is great" after he committed his heinous act- he was the Al Qaeda fanatic who left Afghanistan after we pushed out the Taliban and sought refuge and medical help from Saddam. He then went on to build a terrorist base in Northern Iraq which we disrupted. He is still around but he was very much an ally of Saddam before we went into Iraq. At least now he has to keep running rather than helping al Qaeda get biological and chemcial weapons from Saddam
 
Originally posted by Pegwinn, I don't know how I missed it yesterday, but thought it good enough to move to today:

Finally, here are some other facts that didn't make the news yet.
This list is current as of December Last Year. I amsure we could add to it by now

-----Original Message-----
From: Deleted to preserve the CO's identity
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:40 AM
Subject: ACCOMPLISHMENTS



Marines and Sailors,

As we approach the end of the year I think it is important
to share a few thoughts about what you've accomplished directly,
in some cases, and indirectly in many others. I am speaking about
what the Bush Administration and each of you has contributed by wearing
the uniform, because the fact that you wear the uniform contributes
100% to the capability of the nation to send a few onto the field to
execute national policy. As you read about these achievements you are
a part of I would call your attention to two things:

1. This is good news that hasn't been fit to print or report on TV.
2. It is much easier to point out the errors a man makes when he makes
the tough decisions, rarely is the positive as aggressively pursued.



Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1...

... the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active
duty.

... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.

... nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.

... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.

... on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the
prewar average.

... all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open,
as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.

... by October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500
more than scheduled.

... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.

... all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.

... doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam.

... pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700
tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.

... the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to
Iraq's children.

... a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000
kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of
farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and
women.

... we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and
over two-thirds of the potable water production.

... there are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by
year-end.

... the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes
to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and
towns.

... 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time
customers are opening accounts daily.

... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.

... the central bank is fully independent.

... Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and banking
laws.

... Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.

... satellite TV dishes are legal.

... foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and
extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and other
government spies.

... there is no Ministry of Information.

... there are more than 170 newspapers.

... you can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.

... foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.

... a nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or
executive - of a representative government, now does.

... in Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils.
Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the
city council elected its new chairman.

... today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional
organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.

... 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in
Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government.

... the Iraqi government regularly participates in international events.
Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen
international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab
League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30
Iraqi embassies around the world.

... Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't.

... for the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites
celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.

... the Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large
and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.

... Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the
zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation,
torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.

... children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with
the government.

... political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or
are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.

... millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.

... Saudis will hold municipal elections.

... Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.

... Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.

... the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian -- a
Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and
for peace.

... Saddam is gone.

... Iraq is free.

... President Bush has not faltered or failed.

... Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the Press
corps that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's important.

Iraq under US lead control has come further in six months than Germany did
in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military deaths
from fanatic Nazi's, and Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued
for over three years after WWII victory was declared.

It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let
alone attempt to build something else in its place.

Now, take into account that Congress fought President Bush on every aspect
of his handling of this country's war and the post-war reconstruction; and
that they continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this conflict
has been a failure.

Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate loss of our brothers
and sisters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the world could
have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush administration
in so short a period of time?

These are things worth writing about. Get the word out. Write to someone you
think may be able to influence our Congress or the press to tell the story.

Above all, be proud that you are a part of this historical precedent.

God Bless you all. Have a great Holiday.

Semper Fidelis,
 

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