An Ex Morman speaks about Robmoney

[JoeB131]

168 years ago.

Have they renounced that prophecy? Have they renounced anything that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young have done?

Have Christians renounced Revelations? Because that's some strange shit, man.

Yes it is. But it doesn't say anything specific about the United States, though.

 

[Toro]

Have they renounced that prophecy? Have they renounced anything that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young have done?

Have Christians renounced Revelations? Because that's some strange shit, man.

Yes it is. But it doesn't say anything specific about the United States, though.

So what? If the yardstick is "they're deceptive, believing really stupid shit" that doesn't stop at borders.

 

[Toro]

If you have something tangible that Mitt Romney would impose his Mormonism on the country, please share it, because thus far, I haven't seen it.

Judge people by what they do, not what they say, and especially not what their scare-mongering, doomsaying political opponents say. I look at Romney's tenure as governor and don't see it.

The analogy to Obama and his "Muslim faith" in 2008 - which was idiotic - is a good one. Liberals who defended Obama in 08 and are making this an issue should be ashamed.

Except that Obama wasn't a Muslim. If he was, he'd have never been elected, and I'd have been completely fine with that.

Romney is a Mormon. And frankly, I don't wait for the Mormon to do something nasty, I prevent him from ever getting a chance to do something nasty.

That's like saying you can't vote for a black person, 'cause they'd steal the watermelons in the White House garden.

You judge people as individuals and based upon their past actions. Or at least I do. I feel very uncomfortable being prejudiced against individuals when their actions state otherwise.

 

[whitehall]

I imagine there were plenty of bigots (including FDR's supreme court justice who was a former KKK member) who found former Papists willing to speak out about Catholicism when JFK was running.

 

[JoeB131]

Have Christians renounced Revelations? Because that's some strange shit, man.

Yes it is. But it doesn't say anything specific about the United States, though.

So what? If the yardstick is "they're deceptive, believing really stupid shit" that doesn't stop at borders.

It does when those prophecies were written 2000 years ago and there's a wide gulf of discussion about their meaning or even their relevence.

Incidently, I think a funditard who believes we are going to get "Raptured" should probably get a second look as well...

 

[JoeB131]

I imagine there were plenty of bigots (including FDR's supreme court justice who was a former KKK member) who found former Papists willing to speak out about Catholicism when JFK was running.

Well, you can imagine it, but it really wasn't true... that was largely a myth made up by the Kennedy Myth Machine, and I put it up there right with "Teddy really did try to save Mary Jo."

To the point, as a former Catholic, though, why would it be an unreasonable position, if you really do believe that the Catholic Church is Satan's corruption of God's word, which a few denominations really do believe. (Including, Ironically, the Mormons.)

My complaint with LDS is not that their beliefs are sillier than anyone elses, which of course, they are, but that they are a whacky cult with some shady history and some shady ethics who don't seem to understand that this country only operates as well as it does because we have a line between Church and State.

 

[Toro]

Yes it is. But it doesn't say anything specific about the United States, though.

So what? If the yardstick is "they're deceptive, believing really stupid shit" that doesn't stop at borders.

It does when those prophecies were written 2000 years ago and there's a wide gulf of discussion about their meaning or even their relevence.

Incidently, I think a funditard who believes we are going to get "Raptured" should probably get a second look as well...

I flat out wouldn't support Romney if I thought he was going to impose Mormonism, just like I wouldn't support an evangelical if he was going to impose his/her views in policy. But I don't see it, and "he's a Mormon" isn't a good enough reason, just like being a Jew or a Muslim or black isn't a good enough reason.

 

[JoeB131]

I flat out wouldn't support Romney if I thought he was going to impose Mormonism, just like I wouldn't support an evangelical if he was going to impose his/her views in policy. But I don't see it, and "he's a Mormon" isn't a good enough reason, just like being a Jew or a Muslim or black isn't a good enough reason.

Well, it is a good enough reason for me.

I wish I had listened to my mother's sage advice when she told me they were no damned good and I thought they were "nice". I quickly learned better.

(My late mother came from the part of Missouri where they drove the Mormons out into IL after they tired to take over the state.)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It bears repeating for idiots and fools.

The President has ZERO power, authority or capability to turn this Country into a Theocracy. He can not do it in any fashion or form.

It takes 218 Congressman, 51 senators and a majority in 37 States to do that. The President is not amongst those 3 things at all.

 

[BDBoop]

It bears repeating for idiots and fools.

The President has ZERO power, authority or capability to turn this Country into a Theocracy. He can not do it in any fashion or form.

It takes 218 Congressman, 51 senators and a majority in 37 States to do that. The President is not amongst those 3 things at all.

See, it's easy for us to forget that when on a daily basis, in here, Obama is responsible for fuck-all everything that is bad and wrong with this country.

 

[hjmick]

I wonder how this thread would have gone if Romney were a Jew...

 

[Avatar4321]

should we NOT know about the religions of the people we choose?

Sure. but if you are going to learn for yourself, it helps learning from people who are honestly trying to teach you about the subject.

You did notice how this supposed former mormon didnt actually cite from any prophecy. Do you know why? It's because there isn't one.

Reading through this article, this guy is derranged. And I mean that in the nicest way possible. I don't for a second believe he was a former mormon because I can't imagine any former mormon being so blatantly wrong about so many things.

It's sad really.

 

[Avatar4321]

My Dad's an Elder in the Mormon Church and I've done quite a bit of research about the LDS. The article is mostly true. The only part I hadn't heard about was Joseph Smith running for President.

hate to disagree, but the article is total bullcrap. (excuse my language). The guy who wrote this is absolutely derranged. Probably why he makes ridiculous claims and doesnt cite a single one.

Did you know Joseph Smith was a Free Mason (who became a level 32 in ONE DAY) when he founded the Mormon Church? That could explain why Mormons are so successful in business; Connections.

He never attended a free mason meeting until the Saints were Settling Nauvoo. And records indicate he went to maybe 3-6 meetings. That was atleast 9 years after the Church was established.

BTW what exactly is wrong with being a free mason? Many of our Founders were free masons. Seems like a nice organization, though not really something that interests me.

This last week when I met with my dad and the subject of religion came up (I'm a Baptized Christian) I asked him two questions:

Was J. Smith a Free Mason when he founded the LDS?
My Dad: "Uh...yes"

Then you're dad was misinformed. It happens. Still not sure why you think it matters.

Are there two levels of information in the Church? One level that you say to those that sit in the pews, and another that only the leaders who control the church know about?
My Dad: "...........yes"

Now, this makes no sense whatsoever. No idea why he would say this because there is nothing God has revealed to the President of the Church, nor to the Twelve that He won't reveal to all.

God hath not revealed anything to Joseph, but what He will make known unto the Twelve, and even the least Saint may know all things as fast as he is able to bear them.

History of the Church, 3:380

An example of the "two levels" is that J.Smith has at least 3 different versions of visitations from God. Initially he said he was visited from just God, then it changed to "Many Angels" then finally "God and Mormon Jesus". Yes, Mormon Jesus who's brother is Lucifer. (I sh*t you not, this is what they believe)

You do realize that "Mormon Jesus" is the one the Apostles testify to in the New Testamenet right?

And you do realize that Job is the one who placed Satan among "the sons of God" right? Job is in the Old Testament.

You know, we also believe you are the brother of satan too. And More importantly the brother of Christ. We believe the Bible when it teaches that Christ is the First Born and that we are the children of God. We lived with God before we were born into mortality. Those of us who were born are those who followed Christ and kept their First Estate. And those who followed the Adversary fell with Him when Michael cast them from Heaven.

Why exactly is believing the Bible a problem for Mormons?

Plus there are at least two different stories about how the gold plates were translated by J. Smith.

There is likely several. It wasnt exactly a 1 day process. Nor was there only one person involved. I have no doubt there are as many accounts as there are witnesses. There usually are in everything.

And there are multiple witnesses to both the translation process and to the plates themselves. I've always found it interesting that God provided 12 witnesses to testify to the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Especially since the Book of Mormon is a type for Christ and He provided 12 witnesses to testify of the Resurrection.

God is amazing in how he repeats His pattern to teach us.

I've never asked him about the undergarments with the Masonic Symbols on it though I've heard him talking about them. Those masonic symbols are ALL OVER any Mormon Temple, inside and out and is proof of it's Masonic roots.

There are Biblical symbols throughout the Temple as well. Not surprising at all. Not sure what exactly you have against Masons. It really doesnt make much sense.

Mormons believe there is not One God but Billions of Gods, as many as there are Universes. Also that good works here on Earth and strict adherence to the Mormon Bible (which is full of errors and in large part a copy of the King James version) will ensure a MAN's ascention to God status in the afterlife. Women CANNOT become Gods and can only be "sealed" to a Man (God) in the after life.

Again, I sh*t you not.

It's the Bible that teaches us that those who recieve the Word of God are "gods". It's the Bible that teaches us that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ we become Joint heirs with Christ and recieve everything the Father has. It's the Bible that teaches us that when we see Him, we will be like Him. It's the Bible that teaches us to be Christ like. It's the Bible that teaches us that the Gospel is given to us to make us "partakers of the Divine Nature". And that through His Divine power we are given "all things that pertain unto life and godliness."

Not sure why you have issues with what the Bible teaches as I've always found you to be someone who believes it.

Oh and you're wrong. It's only by the grace of God that any of this is possible. The Scriptures are very clear on that.

There are some good documentaries out there about the LDS, I guess I should post them.

I'd recommend reading the Book of Mormon for yourself. Forget what others say, go straight to the source. That's what I love about the Gospel. You don't have to take anyones word for it. You don't have to take my word for it. You don't have to take the word of some "documentary" that may or may not be accurate. You can go to the scriptures and learn for yourself. You can study sermons in context. You can humble yourself before God and learn from the Holy Spirit.

In fact, I encourage you not to just take my word for it and instead find out for yourself. The Book of Mormon is still the only book I know of that contains a promise from God where He will reveal to you whether it's from Him or not. I encourage all to take that test. God has never had a problem with honest questioning.

 

[Avatar4321]

I dont trust ANY religion that keeps secrets

There is nothing that is secret. We are more than willing to share everything with anyone who so desires if they patiently and humbly seek the truth.

But unfortunately, too many think they need to know everything before they learn something. And how wise would that be? Should we teach people calculus before they learn basic math? When you learn things out of context and sequence, reality can easily be distorted.

 

[Avatar4321]

Okay, until a Mormon weighs in and explains why the article is erroneous, it stands.

Romney avoids mentioning it, but Joseph Smith ran for president in 1844 as an independent Commander in Chief of an “army of God” advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government in favor of a Mormon-ruled theocracy. Challenging Democrat, James Polk and Whig, Henry Clay – Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.” Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church. Smith’s insertion of religion into politics and his call for a “theodemocracy where God and people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteous matters” created a sensation and drew hostility from the outside world. But his candidacy was cut short when he was shot to death by an anti-Mormon vigilante mob. Out of Smith’s national political ambitions grew what would become known in Mormon circles as the “White Horse Prophecy” — a belief ingrained in Mormon culture and passed down through generations by church leaders that the day would come when the U.S. Constitution would “hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber” and the Mormon priesthood would save it. Mitt Romney views the American presidency as a theological office.

Do you usually take anything someone says when they fail to back themselves up until someone else provides evidence to the contrary?

Exactly what do think stands from that quote that you would like to see as erroneous?

 

[Avatar4321]

should we NOT know about the religions of the people we choose?

Only Obama's.

True story.

I see no reason why we shouldnt know about the religions of the people we choose. I just think if we are going to do that, we should have accurate information about it.

 

[Avatar4321]

It's secret from 'us.'

I guarrantee you that there is nothing secret.

 

[Avatar4321]

Just because the secrets are being let out doesn't mean the church is happy about it.

Most Churches dont have tens of thousands of missionaries out sharing their "secrets"

 

[Avatar4321]

I thought valid and legitimate questions were asked of Obama's religion in 2008, and he answered them adequately. (Still didn't vote for him, but his answers were good enough.)

Now it's Romney turn.

Problem is you dont ask valid and legitimate questions. That would require you wanting to recieve an answer. You don't. You've already got your own conclusions and you are attempting to delibrately misrepresent and obscure people.

Which, of course, is why I encourage people to go straight to the source.

 

[Avatar4321]

So what did Romney do that fused government with state as governor of Massachusetts?

He practiced his faith.