An even dozen suicides - American jobs in China

[rdean]

How many of the factories here employ 300,000 people?

I would guess none. But look at the "big picture".

What are the causes of suicide? The number one, of course, is depression. But take a look at the reasons behind that depression:

Poor health
Stress
Mental illness
Bankruptcy
Someone who is intimidated

Considering this is a fairly "new" factory, presumably the people were "screened" before being hired. There are a billion people after all, plenty to choose from.

People are living in "dormitories".

And they have jobs.

Salaries were "doubled" to 293 dollars a month. How many companies "double" their employees salaries?

From our experience, you would expect the suicide rate to be low. Job, money, place to live.

But once you ask and get answers for:

How much work?

How much money?

What kind of place to live?

Answer those and you answer the "suicide" rate.

Which might explain why the suicide rate at Foxconn is actually lower than any state in the US, and actually lower than elsewhere in China. I know that destroys your evil corporation meme, but I do not expect you to admit you are wrong.

No, it doesn't explain it.

(sigh)

When you look at a "state" or an "entire country", what are the reasons people commit suicide? They are already dying of cancer. They are broke. They are "depressed". They are crazy. Think about the reasons.

A high tech company employing hundreds of thousands of young people in good health, who have been "screened", who are intelligent, besides being people who have a job and a place to live, meaning security, don't commit suicide.

I can't say it in a more obvious and plain way. If they commit suicide, in spite of all these benefits, something is wrong. Further evidence, is the company DOUBLED their workers salaries. Why would they do that? Doubled!

 

[rdean]

Has YOUR PARTY even proposed coming down on sweatshop imports/countries?
NO, they haven't. They're too busy trying to pass more failed jobs bills, and more bailouts for unions, banks, and wall street. Until they do don't bitch about Republicans blocking anything.

If your party of radicals stopped trying to ram through bills designed to destroy our economy and actually focused on some real problems (like the one in your OP!) then you might be pleasantly surprised to see real bi-partisan support.

You're so full of shit it's not funny. TARP came from Bush and the Republicans, probably the only thing they did that kind of worked. Republicans are a failed party with failed policies. Trying to blame Democrats but they are merely trying to pull one over on the American people. Even you can't possibly believe your own BS.

Democrats "designed" bills to destroy the enonomy? That's too funny for words. The real "design" was the Republicans ripping off the Middle Class. When was the last time you heard a Republican politition say the words "Middle Class"?

Jesus, you can't even get your lies straight. TARP came from a Democratic controlled Congress, not "the Republicans", and signed into law by lame-duck Bush. Also note that McCain and Obama BOTH voted YES so laying it on Bush is just idiotic.

And yes, every bill the Democrats have passed and signed by Obama have been designed to further destroy our economy. Everytime these bills are introduced you have conservatives, and anyone else being honest, saying it will do nothing but hurt the economy further, and what has happened? The economy has gotten worse. More jobs lost, higher unemployment, and there is no end in sight. NONE of the bills passed have helped us as was promised by the Hussein and the left-wingnuts. Idiots like you may actually be dumb enough to believe these bills are designed to "fix" the economy, but the Hussein, Pelosi, and Reid all know exactly what the results will be.

Unless of course you want to argue that they too were just too dumb to understand these bills would only sink our economy.

Yea, the Democrats CONTROLLED the Senate so much, with votes that were 49 to 49. They can't get past the Republicans now with 59, yet they could back then with 49.

Do you see why people such as yourself are lying assholes? You look at the facts and even when they are right there in front of you, you lie.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I would guess none. But look at the "big picture".

What are the causes of suicide? The number one, of course, is depression. But take a look at the reasons behind that depression:

Poor health
Stress
Mental illness
Bankruptcy
Someone who is intimidated

Considering this is a fairly "new" factory, presumably the people were "screened" before being hired. There are a billion people after all, plenty to choose from.

People are living in "dormitories".

And they have jobs.

Salaries were "doubled" to 293 dollars a month. How many companies "double" their employees salaries?

From our experience, you would expect the suicide rate to be low. Job, money, place to live.

But once you ask and get answers for:

How much work?

How much money?

What kind of place to live?

Answer those and you answer the "suicide" rate.

Which might explain why the suicide rate at Foxconn is actually lower than any state in the US, and actually lower than elsewhere in China. I know that destroys your evil corporation meme, but I do not expect you to admit you are wrong.

No, it doesn't explain it.

(sigh)

When you look at a "state" or an "entire country", what are the reasons people commit suicide? They are already dying of cancer. They are broke. They are "depressed". They are crazy. Think about the reasons.

A high tech company employing hundreds of thousands of young people in good health, who have been "screened", who are intelligent, besides being people who have a job and a place to live, meaning security, don't commit suicide.

I can't say it in a more obvious and plain way. If they commit suicide, in spite of all these benefits, something is wrong. Further evidence, is the company DOUBLED their workers salaries. Why would they do that? Doubled!

Did you know that until recently Foxconn paid a death benefit to the families of suicides? Do you think any of them might have jumped to make life easier on their families?

Speculating on the reason for a suicide is stupid, because the only people who really know why they did what they did is dead. Foxconn makes Apple products, as I pointed out before. If you really think that they are doing something wrong, despite the fact that they have a lower suicide rate than average for either China or the US, then find evidence and organize a boycott. I would join in if I didn't already boycott Apple because of their proprietary attitude about property after it belongs to others.

Until you have something besides the fact that they pay people more than they used to though this is nothing more than a conspiracy theory on a par with the other stupid conspiracy.

 

[rdean]

Which might explain why the suicide rate at Foxconn is actually lower than any state in the US, and actually lower than elsewhere in China. I know that destroys your evil corporation meme, but I do not expect you to admit you are wrong.

No, it doesn't explain it.

(sigh)

When you look at a "state" or an "entire country", what are the reasons people commit suicide? They are already dying of cancer. They are broke. They are "depressed". They are crazy. Think about the reasons.

A high tech company employing hundreds of thousands of young people in good health, who have been "screened", who are intelligent, besides being people who have a job and a place to live, meaning security, don't commit suicide.

I can't say it in a more obvious and plain way. If they commit suicide, in spite of all these benefits, something is wrong. Further evidence, is the company DOUBLED their workers salaries. Why would they do that? Doubled!

Did you know that until recently Foxconn paid a death benefit to the families of suicides? Do you think any of them might have jumped to make life easier on their families?

Speculating on the reason for a suicide is stupid, because the only people who really know why they did what they did is dead. Foxconn makes Apple products, as I pointed out before. If you really think that they are doing something wrong, despite the fact that they have a lower suicide rate than average for either China or the US, then find evidence and organize a boycott. I would join in if I didn't already boycott Apple because of their proprietary attitude about property after it belongs to others.

Until you have something besides the fact that they pay people more than they used to though this is nothing more than a conspiracy theory on a par with the other stupid conspiracy.

Why are you guys always so willing to defend communist countries and big corporations? Doesn't the human aspect ever bother you?

 

[theHawk]

You're so full of shit it's not funny. TARP came from Bush and the Republicans, probably the only thing they did that kind of worked. Republicans are a failed party with failed policies. Trying to blame Democrats but they are merely trying to pull one over on the American people. Even you can't possibly believe your own BS.

Democrats "designed" bills to destroy the enonomy? That's too funny for words. The real "design" was the Republicans ripping off the Middle Class. When was the last time you heard a Republican politition say the words "Middle Class"?

Jesus, you can't even get your lies straight. TARP came from a Democratic controlled Congress, not "the Republicans", and signed into law by lame-duck Bush. Also note that McCain and Obama BOTH voted YES so laying it on Bush is just idiotic.

And yes, every bill the Democrats have passed and signed by Obama have been designed to further destroy our economy. Everytime these bills are introduced you have conservatives, and anyone else being honest, saying it will do nothing but hurt the economy further, and what has happened? The economy has gotten worse. More jobs lost, higher unemployment, and there is no end in sight. NONE of the bills passed have helped us as was promised by the Hussein and the left-wingnuts. Idiots like you may actually be dumb enough to believe these bills are designed to "fix" the economy, but the Hussein, Pelosi, and Reid all know exactly what the results will be.

Unless of course you want to argue that they too were just too dumb to understand these bills would only sink our economy.

Yea, the Democrats CONTROLLED the Senate so much, with votes that were 49 to 49. They can't get past the Republicans now with 59, yet they could back then with 49.

Do you see why people such as yourself are lying assholes? You look at the facts and even when they are right there in front of you, you lie.

The bill passed with 74 votes from the Senate. So I don't even know what you are argueing about. You are the one that brought up TARP, and falsely said it was passed by "the Republicans". It was passed with far more votes from Dems than Republicans, including Obama.

Classic lib, you get caught lying about it and all you do is turn around and call me a "lying asshole" for simply pointing out the FACT that you are dead wrong.

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

All you can do is lay blame on Republicans and of course Dems are *never* responsible for any of the mess we are in now.
I bet if a bill passed with only 1 repub vote you'd still blame republicans for the bill's failures.

 

[hjmick]

Factories here get one or two suicides a month? Interesting.

How many of the factories here employ 300,000 people?

I would guess none. But look at the "big picture".

What are the causes of suicide? The number one, of course, is depression. But take a look at the reasons behind that depression:

Poor health
Stress
Mental illness
Bankruptcy
Someone who is intimidated

Considering this is a fairly "new" factory, presumably the people were "screened" before being hired. There are a billion people after all, plenty to choose from.

People are living in "dormitories".

And they have jobs.

Salaries were "doubled" to 293 dollars a month. How many companies "double" their employees salaries?

From our experience, you would expect the suicide rate to be low. Job, money, place to live.

But once you ask and get answers for:

How much work?

How much money?

What kind of place to live?

Answer those and you answer the "suicide" rate.

Those are, indeed, some of the reasons people commit suicide, and you have listed three good questions about the conditions faced by the Foxconn employees. But there are also some cultural considerations that enter the equation. Is this sort of arrangement new to China? I'd guess not, but I'm not sure. Compared to other industries in China, I'd be willing to bet that Foxconn isn't so bad. In the end, though, what is so disturbing about these suicides?

I did some research, did you know that, based on conservative estimates, the suicide rate in China is 14 people in 100,000? Simple math tells us that is 42 in 300,000. Those are conservative numbers, the true number is probably higher. In the U.S., conservative estimates put the number of suicides per 100,000 at 10, though some studies put the number closer to 12 to 15. Again, math, 30 in 300,000. Seems like Foxconn's numbers are below average.

It would be easy to blame any person's suicide on their job. In some cases you'd probably be right to do so. But it seems to me that, when you start talking about a company whose employees total more that the armies of some nations, you need to consider more factors than just their job.

 

[rdean]

How many of the factories here employ 300,000 people?

I would guess none. But look at the "big picture".

What are the causes of suicide? The number one, of course, is depression. But take a look at the reasons behind that depression:

Poor health
Stress
Mental illness
Bankruptcy
Someone who is intimidated

Considering this is a fairly "new" factory, presumably the people were "screened" before being hired. There are a billion people after all, plenty to choose from.

People are living in "dormitories".

And they have jobs.

Salaries were "doubled" to 293 dollars a month. How many companies "double" their employees salaries?

From our experience, you would expect the suicide rate to be low. Job, money, place to live.

But once you ask and get answers for:

How much work?

How much money?

What kind of place to live?

Answer those and you answer the "suicide" rate.

Those are, indeed, some of the reasons people commit suicide, and you have listed three good questions about the conditions faced by the Foxconn employees. But there are also some cultural considerations that enter the equation. Is this sort of arrangement new to China? I'd guess not, but I'm not sure. Compared to other industries in China, I'd be willing to bet that Foxconn isn't so bad. In the end, though, what is so disturbing about these suicides?

I did some research, did you know that, based on conservative estimates, the suicide rate in China is 14 people in 100,000? Simple math tells us that is 42 in 300,000. Those are conservative numbers, the true number is probably higher. In the U.S., conservative estimates put the number of suicides per 100,000 at 10, though some studies put the number closer to 12 to 15. Again, math, 30 in 300,000. Seems like Foxconn's numbers are below average.

It would be easy to blame any person's suicide on their job. In some cases you'd probably be right to do so. But it seems to me that, when you start talking about a company whose employees total more that the armies of some nations, you need to consider more factors than just their job.

Which is why I pointed out that those people were SCREENED before they were hired. SCREENED AND EVAULUATED. They are young. They have jobs, a place to live. They are healthy.

Look at the reasons for suicides in countries. Take away the old, the sick, the poor, the mentally ill, and how many suicides are left?

Have people really lost the ability to reason? I'm stunned.

 

[rdean]

Jesus, you can't even get your lies straight. TARP came from a Democratic controlled Congress, not "the Republicans", and signed into law by lame-duck Bush. Also note that McCain and Obama BOTH voted YES so laying it on Bush is just idiotic.

And yes, every bill the Democrats have passed and signed by Obama have been designed to further destroy our economy. Everytime these bills are introduced you have conservatives, and anyone else being honest, saying it will do nothing but hurt the economy further, and what has happened? The economy has gotten worse. More jobs lost, higher unemployment, and there is no end in sight. NONE of the bills passed have helped us as was promised by the Hussein and the left-wingnuts. Idiots like you may actually be dumb enough to believe these bills are designed to "fix" the economy, but the Hussein, Pelosi, and Reid all know exactly what the results will be.

Unless of course you want to argue that they too were just too dumb to understand these bills would only sink our economy.

Yea, the Democrats CONTROLLED the Senate so much, with votes that were 49 to 49. They can't get past the Republicans now with 59, yet they could back then with 49.

Do you see why people such as yourself are lying assholes? You look at the facts and even when they are right there in front of you, you lie.

The bill passed with 74 votes from the Senate. So I don't even know what you are argueing about. You are the one that brought up TARP, and falsely said it was passed by "the Republicans". It was passed with far more votes from Dems than Republicans, including Obama.

Classic lib, you get caught lying about it and all you do is turn around and call me a "lying asshole" for simply pointing out the FACT that you are dead wrong.

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

All you can do is lay blame on Republicans and of course Dems are *never* responsible for any of the mess we are in now.
I bet if a bill passed with only 1 repub vote you'd still blame republicans for the bill's failures.

The bill was presented by Republicans. The bill was pushed by a Republican President, therefore, it's the Democrats "fault". What you are saying is that Democrats are stupid for listening to Republicans. Well, they seem to be "learning".

 

[theHawk]

The bill was presented by Republicans. The bill was pushed by a Republican President, therefore, it's the Democrats "fault". What you are saying is that Democrats are stupid for listening to Republicans. Well, they seem to be "learning".

I could care less who it was "presented by". The fact is more Repubs oppossed it and voted against it. Lame-duck Bush only signed it because both McCain and the Hussein were all for it. Of course McCain was being his typical liberal idiot self in endorsing this bill in an effort to appease everyone. He should of known if a radical like Hussein was for it, it probably was the wrong thing for America.

Anyway, if you libs are so concerned about the unfair advantage of companies operating in places like China, why don't the Dems "present" a bill to do something about it?

I'd support a bill no matter who it was "presented by".

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why are you guys always so willing to defend communist countries and big corporations? Doesn't the human aspect ever bother you?

How is pointing out that your claims are absurd defending anyone?

 

[Pepe]

Why are you guys always so willing to defend communist countries and big corporations? Doesn't the human aspect ever bother you?

I cannot find the wording in the US Constitution that makes me or anyone I know responsible for anything that happens domestically in another Country.

We should not be the world's Nanny.

 

[rdean]

Why are you guys always so willing to defend communist countries and big corporations? Doesn't the human aspect ever bother you?

I cannot find the wording in the US Constitution that makes me or anyone I know responsible for anything that happens domestically in another Country.

We should not be the world's Nanny.

That sounds good. Until you really take a look.

I previously put up a link to "Appliance Magazine" where an engineer was quoted as asking a CEO, "If we keep shipping American jobs overseas and no one here has a job, then who will buy your products?" The CEO said, "That's NOT my responsibility".

Republican policies in the US are like "slash and burn" farming. Just get what you can and run.

When the economy falls, everyone falls, including the rich. Companies, like the economy have to be "grown".