An apple blossom is NOT an apple - A fertilized egg or embryo is NOT "a baby"

FreeWorld

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Apr 10, 2011
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I hear and read the phrase "baby killing" from anti-abortionists a lot - but it is a totally wrong desciption!


A fertilized egg/embryo/fetus is NOT "a baby"... no more than an apple blossom is an apple.

Sure it has the potential to become that - but even that is not certain - it can always be miscarried (GOD's abortion).
Nor is a zygote-(1-2 weeks), an embryo-(2-8 weeks) or a fetus-(9-22 weeks) actually "a baby" because they are not viable to live as human beings yet.

After all, the state only issues "Birth Certificates" (to certify a live baby as a person) not conception certificates or pregnancy certificates.

Even the church does not baptise a fertilized egg or an unborn fetus as baby because the church does not considered it to be an actual person yet.

An embryo or fetus is not legally "a person" therefore it can not be "murdered" or have "rights".


With unplanned pregnancies, typically a woman won't figure out she is pregnant till about 4 weeks (embryo stage) - about the time of a missed period.

At this stage - an embryo looks nothing like a human and is only the size of a sesame seed. > :doubt:

At 8 weeks — it's only about the size of a kidney bean and even looks more like a kidney bean than a human. (Nothing like the huge, blown-up late fetus posters anti-abortionist use to deceive the public.)

Between 4 to 8 weeks a woman will know she is pregnant and did not plan the pregnancy and does not want to be pregnant -- she will typically decide to get an elective abortion at this early stage of an embryo and NOT wait for it become bigger as a fetus.


But here's the big reality check...

Most women have abortions at 4 to 8 weeks... during the Embryonic (seed-sized) Stage !

So all those oversized pictures of near-term baby-fetuses anti-abortionists use are false and meant to deceive because most woman don't wait months so they can abort huge near term fetuses unless it has already died inside their womb.

Anti-abortionist know this happens and take false photos of "still births" and pass them off as typical abortions when they are not.


The women who chooses to abort closer to 22 weeks usually do so for health reasons:

* The fetus has already died inside the womb and has to be removed to preserve the health of the woman.

* Save the life of the pregnant woman or preserve the woman's physical health
due to complications such as:


Cervical insufficiency
Chronic hypertension during pregnancy
Ectopic pregnancy
Excessive amniotic fluid (hydramnios or polyhydramnios)
Gestational diabetes
Gestational hypertension (pregnancy-induced hypertension)
Intrauterine growth restriction (IUGR)
Iron-deficiency anemia in pregnancy
Low amniotic fluid (oligohydramnios)
Placenta previa
Placental abruption
Preeclampsia


* Terminate pregnancy that would result in a child born with a congenital disorder that would be fatal or associated with significant morbidity
or selectively reduce the number of fetuses to lessen health risks associated with multiple pregnancy.



Again... Even at 22 weeks a fetus is not legally or medically considered a person or viable as a human able to live outside the womb.
 
So when does an embryo become human?

Is it when the heart starts beating?
Is it when it looks a human being and not a blob?
Is it when there is neurological activity?
Is it when the fetus is viable even though not yet born?
 
I don't know what 'church' the OP refers to in its babble, but it cannot be the Catholic Church, because the Catholic Church considers a baby to be a baby from conception.
 
The fact is that there is no consistency in law of when an embryo is actually a human being.

People get charged with double homicide for killing a pregnant woman and her fetus but that same woman could abort and it's OK.

We have to have some legal consistency.
 
Human development always tends to be a political tap dance. We need to establish a time that a human being is actually a human being. Is it at conception? Is it at a different time? If we could agree on a time then the abortion issue could be once and forever resolved. Abortions would be considered legal from such and such a time and after that time considered to be illegal as a protection to the unborn baby. However, due to the political hot potato this issue has created it will never happen. Abortion will always be a spear that is thrown by those that agree to the procedure and by those that find the procedure appalling. Doesn't seem to be any room for compromise.
 
I don't know what 'church' the OP refers to in its babble, but it cannot be the Catholic Church, because the Catholic Church considers a baby to be a baby from conception.

You are 100% CORRECT. :clap2:
Conception - scientific FACT it's a baby. Should end all arguments/discussions on the matter - but the pro-choice whack-jobs keep blabbering....
 
Human development always tends to be a political tap dance. We need to establish a time that a human being is actually a human being. Is it at conception? Is it at a different time? If we could agree on a time then the abortion issue could be once and forever resolved. Abortions would be considered legal from such and such a time and after that time considered to be illegal as a protection to the unborn baby. However, due to the political hot potato this issue has created it will never happen. Abortion will always be a spear that is thrown by those that agree to the procedure and by those that find the procedure appalling. Doesn't seem to be any room for compromise.

They can establish whatever timeline they want.... it will not stop Catholics (and many other churches) from taking the stance that life begins at conception. To many of us, it's not about a legal definition, it's a moral one. And, in my belief system, life begins at conception... what happens to that life, once created, is for God, not man, to decide.
 
Human development always tends to be a political tap dance. We need to establish a time that a human being is actually a human being. Is it at conception? Is it at a different time? If we could agree on a time then the abortion issue could be once and forever resolved. Abortions would be considered legal from such and such a time and after that time considered to be illegal as a protection to the unborn baby. However, due to the political hot potato this issue has created it will never happen. Abortion will always be a spear that is thrown by those that agree to the procedure and by those that find the procedure appalling. Doesn't seem to be any room for compromise.

They can establish whatever timeline they want.... it will not stop Catholics (and many other churches) from taking the stance that life begins at conception. To many of us, it's not about a legal definition, it's a moral one. And, in my belief system, life begins at conception... what happens to that life, once created, is for God, not man, to decide.

That's all well and good for you but I do not happen to believe in the man in the sky and I don't want you forcing me to follow your religious delusions.
 
Human development always tends to be a political tap dance. We need to establish a time that a human being is actually a human being. Is it at conception? Is it at a different time? If we could agree on a time then the abortion issue could be once and forever resolved. Abortions would be considered legal from such and such a time and after that time considered to be illegal as a protection to the unborn baby. However, due to the political hot potato this issue has created it will never happen. Abortion will always be a spear that is thrown by those that agree to the procedure and by those that find the procedure appalling. Doesn't seem to be any room for compromise.

They can establish whatever timeline they want.... it will not stop Catholics (and many other churches) from taking the stance that life begins at conception. To many of us, it's not about a legal definition, it's a moral one. And, in my belief system, life begins at conception... what happens to that life, once created, is for God, not man, to decide.

That's all well and good for you but I do not happen to believe in the man in the sky and I don't want you forcing me to follow your religious delusions.

Where in my post did I say that you had to? My first comment establishes that you are welcome to your views. I just wish others would accept my right to see things differently. I'm not even opposed to abortion.... that is for the individual and their conscience... I have my view, and I am as entitled to it as you are to yours. Not fucking rocket science.
 
So, do we shoot the doctors when they throw out the unused embryos?

Unused Embryos Vex Infertility Patients

Dec. 4, 2008 -- Couples who have unused and unwanted frozen embryos as a result of infertility treatment often feel conflicted about what to do with them, with disposal and donation frequently seen as unacceptable options.

This is the finding from the largest survey ever conducted examining fertility patients' attitudes toward their stored, frozen embryos.

There are about half a million such embryos in storage in the U.S. The survey revealed that many patients remain in limbo about what to do with their embryos once they have no more need for them.
 
That's why Scott Peterson was only charged with killing his wife and unborn son because embryos aren't babies!

Wait wut? :confused:
 
In practical terms - 65% to 90% of preemie fetuses are NOT going to survive outside the womb at 23 weeks -
And these very early fetal deliveries - typically result in many congenital birth defects - such as likely blindness of an 22 week preemie and other health issues such as immature organs.

Infant Survivability Rates

Up until 21 weeks: 0% survival rate :hellno:

at 22 weeks: 0-10% survival rate

at 23 weeks: 10-35% survival rate

at 24 weeks: 40-70% survival rate

at 25 weeks: 50-80% survival rate

at 26 weeks: 80-90% survival rate

at 27 weeks: greater than 90% survival rate



Even with church claims that "life begins at conception"....

There is no official practice of Fetal Baptism :cuckoo:
No official practice exists, How would one pour water over the in utero fetus? Or anoint the child?


Unborn babies can not be baptized. :cuckoo:

Baptism requires water coming in contact with the person to be baptized, either by pouring, sprinkling, or immersion. There is no doctor worth his license that would permit:
1. a fetus to be brought out of the mother's body just for the purpose of baptism.
2. to have the amniotic sac broken so that water could come in contact with the fetus.
3. the fetus to be contaminated with elements (water) from outside the mother's body.


Fetal baptism is a false argument.
 
Last edited:
In practical terms - 65% to 90% of preemie fetuses are NOT going to survive outside the womb at 23 weeks -
And these very early fetal deliveries - typically result in many congenital birth defects - such as likely blindness of an 22 week preemie and other health issues such as immature organs.

Infant Survivability Rates

Up until 21 weeks: 0% survival rate :hellno:

at 22 weeks: 0-10% survival rate

at 23 weeks: 10-35% survival rate

at 24 weeks: 40-70% survival rate

at 25 weeks: 50-80% survival rate

at 26 weeks: 80-90% survival rate

at 27 weeks: greater than 90% survival rate



Even with church claims that "life begins at conception"....

There is no official practice of Fetal Baptism :cuckoo:
No official practice exists, How would one pour water over the in utero fetus? Or anoint the child?


Unborn babies can not be baptized. :cuckoo:

Baptism requires water coming in contact with the person to be baptized, either by pouring, sprinkling, or immersion. There is no doctor worth his license that would permit:
1. a fetus to be brought out of the mother's body just for the purpose of baptism.
2. to have the amniotic sac broken so that water could come in contact with the fetus.
3. the fetus to be contaminated with elements (water) from outside the mother's body.


Fetal baptism is a false argument.

Too bad your mother didn't believe in abortions.
 
I hear and read the phrase "baby killing" from anti-abortionists a lot - but it is a totally wrong desciption!


A fertilized egg/embryo/fetus is NOT "a baby"... no more than an apple blossom is an apple.

Sure it has the potential to become that - but even that is not certain - it can always be miscarried (GOD's abortion).
Nor is a zygote-(1-2 weeks), an embryo-(2-8 weeks) or a fetus-(9-22 weeks) actually "a baby" because they are not viable to live as human beings yet.

After all, the state only issues "Birth Certificates" (to certify a live baby as a person) not conception certificates or pregnancy certificates.

Even the church does not baptise a fertilized egg or an unborn fetus as baby because the church does not considered it to be an actual person yet.

An embryo or fetus is not legally "a person" therefore it can not be "murdered" or have "rights".


With unplanned pregnancies, typically a woman won't figure out she is pregnant till about 4 weeks (embryo stage) - about the time of a missed period.

At this stage - an embryo looks nothing like a human and is only the size of a sesame seed. > :doubt:

At 8 weeks — it's only about the size of a kidney bean and even looks more like a kidney bean than a human. (Nothing like the huge, blown-up late fetus posters anti-abortionist use to deceive the public.)

Between 4 to 8 weeks a woman will know she is pregnant and did not plan the pregnancy and does not want to be pregnant -- she will typically decide to get an elective abortion at this early stage of an embryo and NOT wait for it become bigger as a fetus.


But here's the big reality check...

Most women have abortions at 4 to 8 weeks... during the Embryonic (seed-sized) Stage !

So all those oversized pictures of near-term baby-fetuses anti-abortionists use are false and meant to deceive because most woman don't wait months so they can abort huge near term fetuses unless it has already died inside their womb.

Anti-abortionist know this happens and take false photos of "still births" and pass them off as typical abortions when they are not.


The women who chooses to abort closer to 22 weeks usually do so for health reasons:

* The fetus has already died inside the womb and has to be removed to preserve the health of the woman.

* Save the life of the pregnant woman or preserve the woman's physical health
due to complications such as:


Cervical insufficiency
Chronic hypertension during pregnancy
Ectopic pregnancy
Excessive amniotic fluid (hydramnios or polyhydramnios)
Gestational diabetes
Gestational hypertension (pregnancy-induced hypertension)
Intrauterine growth restriction (IUGR)
Iron-deficiency anemia in pregnancy
Low amniotic fluid (oligohydramnios)
Placenta previa
Placental abruption
Preeclampsia


* Terminate pregnancy that would result in a child born with a congenital disorder that would be fatal or associated with significant morbidity
or selectively reduce the number of fetuses to lessen health risks associated with multiple pregnancy.



Again... Even at 22 weeks a fetus is not legally or medically considered a person or viable as a human able to live outside the womb.

There is s significant difference between an apple blossom and a fertilized egg. A blossom might become an apple if it is fertilized, a fertilized human egg will grow into a human unless something prevents it.
 
So, do we shoot the doctors when they throw out the unused embryos?

Unused Embryos Vex Infertility Patients

Dec. 4, 2008 -- Couples who have unused and unwanted frozen embryos as a result of infertility treatment often feel conflicted about what to do with them, with disposal and donation frequently seen as unacceptable options.

This is the finding from the largest survey ever conducted examining fertility patients' attitudes toward their stored, frozen embryos.

There are about half a million such embryos in storage in the U.S. The survey revealed that many patients remain in limbo about what to do with their embryos once they have no more need for them.

Why is there any conflict at all if those embryos are not human?
 
In practical terms - 65% to 90% of preemie fetuses are NOT going to survive outside the womb at 23 weeks -
And these very early fetal deliveries - typically result in many congenital birth defects - such as likely blindness of an 22 week preemie and other health issues such as immature organs.

Infant Survivability Rates

Up until 21 weeks: 0% survival rate :hellno:

at 22 weeks: 0-10% survival rate

at 23 weeks: 10-35% survival rate

at 24 weeks: 40-70% survival rate

at 25 weeks: 50-80% survival rate

at 26 weeks: 80-90% survival rate

at 27 weeks: greater than 90% survival rate



Even with church claims that "life begins at conception"....

There is no official practice of Fetal Baptism :cuckoo:
No official practice exists, How would one pour water over the in utero fetus? Or anoint the child?


Unborn babies can not be baptized. :cuckoo:

Baptism requires water coming in contact with the person to be baptized, either by pouring, sprinkling, or immersion. There is no doctor worth his license that would permit:
1. a fetus to be brought out of the mother's body just for the purpose of baptism.
2. to have the amniotic sac broken so that water could come in contact with the fetus.
3. the fetus to be contaminated with elements (water) from outside the mother's body.


Fetal baptism is a false argument.

Wow.

You mention fetal baptism, prove it is logistically impossible, and then argue that, because it is impossible, that proves that fetuses are not babies? Exactly how does your logic train work here? Are unbaptized babies not human? Does that mean that it is legal to kill anyone who has never been baptized because they are not human? Are you just trying to prove that you have not thought things through?
 
If the fertilized egg, embryo, fetus is not terminated (that would be not: killed, miscarried, aborted, mother is killed leaving no life support), will it develop into anything, but, a human being?????????????????????????? If that is the case, it is "killing"/"murdering".

It is legal to do it, that does not make it "right". For those that claim to be progressive and want health care for all as a right, aren't you taking the "health care" at the most simplistic?
 

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