An Analogy of America’s Path to Socialism

[Christopher]

I hate to say this but I am convinced there is no stopping America’s transition to Socialism. I will continue to argue against it and vote against it, but too many today are pushing towards it.

I understand that there is much more to Socialism than what I will discuss here; however, I would like to provide an analogy about how we are moving towards socialism and see how many of you agree with it.

Imagine with me for a moment that the free market system is like a large giant with the capability to accomplish much work and growth. Unrestrained, the giant can also create much destruction. So, America initially placed a long rope to give the giant enough freedom to accomplish work. Gradually, the American government has continued to shorten this rope and this has not necessarily been a bad thing to a degree. The problem is that now the balance of how long to make the rope is lost and the shortening of the rope because “the free market needs more controls” has become similar to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

What I mean by this is that those who ask for more controls are also saying the free market cannot function on its own and needs help, while they continually make it difficult for the free market to accomplish work by shortening the rope. It is almost like a trainer prodding an elephant to reach all the peanuts or hay when the trainer does not allow enough rope/chain to do so. As the elephant becomes more hysterical to reach the food, the trainer will say, “What is wrong with you? Why are you acting this way? There must be something wrong with the elephant and it needs more of my control. I’m going to shorten its chain so I can watch it more closely.” Eventually, the elephant will die and the trainer will ironically say “See, it needed my help all along”.

Now imagine that the giant is actually made up of all those individuals that are in the market, the small businesses, the investors, large corporations, etc. and each of these individuals or entities has a similar rope that keeps shortening. As the balance between being able to accomplish enough to be profitable with the short rope shifts towards unprofitability, each individual will begin to see other options. Some will say “The government is giving out ‘free’ pay with no effort and I cannot seem to make ends meet” and decide to get out of the market. Others will say “I can do better just working for the group at the end of this rope” or “it’s not worth the effort” and will get a job working for the government. What this also does is put more strain on those still making efforts against the short rope and intensifies the problem, since less individuals per capita are working in the free market and more individuals go on government support which have to be paid by increased taxes of the free market. All we have to do is consider the percent of government spending as a percent of GDP to see this.

Eventually, as more and more continue to rely on either “free” support from the government or a paycheck from the government, the “free market” will be “morphed” into one much larger, monopolized, and more destructive giant with little or no restraint: the government.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I hate to say this but I am convinced there is no stopping America’s transition to Socialism. I will continue to argue against it and vote against it, but too many today are pushing towards it.

I understand that there is much more to Socialism than what I will discuss here; however, I would like to provide an analogy about how we are moving towards socialism and see how many of you agree with it.

Imagine with me for a moment that the free market system is like a large giant with the capability to accomplish much work and growth. Unrestrained, the giant can also create much destruction. So, America initially placed a long rope to give the giant enough freedom to accomplish work. Gradually, the American government has continued to shorten this rope and this has not necessarily been a bad thing to a degree. The problem is that now the balance of how long to make the rope is lost and the shortening of the rope because “the free market needs more controls” has become similar to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

What I mean by this is that those who ask for more controls are also saying the free market cannot function on its own and needs help, while they continually make it difficult for the free market to accomplish work by shortening the rope. It is almost like a trainer prodding an elephant to reach all the peanuts or hay when the trainer does not allow enough rope/chain to do so. As the elephant becomes more hysterical to reach the food, the trainer will say, “What is wrong with you? Why are you acting this way? There must be something wrong with the elephant and it needs more of my control. I’m going to shorten its chain so I can watch it more closely.” Eventually, the elephant will die and the trainer will ironically say “See, it needed my help all along”.

Now imagine that the giant is actually made up of all those individuals that are in the market, the small businesses, the investors, large corporations, etc. and each of these individuals or entities has a similar rope that keeps shortening. As the balance between being able to accomplish enough to be profitable with the short rope shifts towards unprofitability, each individual will begin to see other options. Some will say “The government is giving out ‘free’ pay with no effort and I cannot seem to make ends meet” and decide to get out of the market. Others will say “I can do better just working for the group at the end of this rope” or “it’s not worth the effort” and will get a job working for the government. What this also does is put more strain on those still making efforts against the short rope and intensifies the problem, since less individuals per capita are working in the free market and more individuals go on government support which have to be paid by increased taxes of the free market. All we have to do is consider the percent of government spending as a percent of GDP to see this.

Eventually, as more and more continue to rely on either “free” support from the government or a paycheck from the government, the “free market” will be “morphed” into one much larger, monopolized, and more destructive giant with little or no restraint: the government.

Newsflash!!!!!!!!

We ARE already a socialist country. We are NOT a democracy or a capitalist country anymore. We ceased being such with the Clinton Administration. Too bad for guys like you and me. The takeover of communism is next.

 

[MalibuMan]

I often think what peoples excuses will be after the government gives them practically everything needed to better their lives and don't.

 

[rightwinger]

I just love this thread..
We just endured an economic collapse into the largest recession since the 30s. The reason was unrestrained capitalism. We removed Government oversight and gave the banks and manufacturers free reign.
Now, any attempt to regain control of our shattered economy gets the dreaded label.....SOCIALISM

Is everyone scared yet?

 

[Vast LWC]

Newsflash!!!!!!!!

We ARE already a socialist country. We are NOT a democracy or a capitalist country anymore. We ceased being such with the Clinton Administration. Too bad for guys like you and me. The takeover of communism is next.

Newsflash!!!!

Socialism and democracy can, and do, exist hand-in-hand in many nations all over the world, including our own.

Governments can be Socialist-Democracies or Capitalist-Totalitarianisms, ruled by a small number of very rich people.

Plus, if our nation had been a socialist nation for the past decade, the wealth gap between rich and poor would have shrunk, wouldn't it? Instead it has grown by leaps and bounds.

In fact, for the past 30 years, governmental control over industry in general has been shrinking, not growing.

Which was the whole reason the current economic crisis occurred in the first place.

 

[Vast LWC]

I just love this thread..
We just endured an economic collapse into the largest recession since the 30s. The reason was unrestrained capitalism. We removed Government oversight and gave the banks and manufacturers free reign.
Now, any attempt to regain control of our shattered economy gets the dreaded label.....SOCIALISM

Is everyone scared yet?

Word.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I just love this thread..
We just endured an economic collapse into the largest recession since the 30s. The reason was unrestrained capitalism. We removed Government oversight and gave the banks and manufacturers free reign.
Now, any attempt to regain control of our shattered economy gets the dreaded label.....SOCIALISM

Is everyone scared yet?

yep

 

[Truthspeaker]

Newsflash!!!!!!!!

We ARE already a socialist country. We are NOT a democracy or a capitalist country anymore. We ceased being such with the Clinton Administration. Too bad for guys like you and me. The takeover of communism is next.

Newsflash!!!!

Socialism and democracy can, and do, exist hand-in-hand in many nations all over the world, including our own.

Governments can be Socialist-Democracies or Capitalist-Totalitarianisms, ruled by a small number of very rich people.

Plus, if our nation had been a socialist nation for the past decade, the wealth gap between rich and poor would have shrunk, wouldn't it? Instead it has grown by leaps and bounds.

In fact, for the past 30 years, governmental control over industry in general has been shrinking, not growing.

Which was the whole reason the current economic crisis occurred in the first place.

gaps between rich and poor have nothing to do with socialism. They have muchmore to do with communism. but the country as a whole isn't quite ready for that. But we have already embraced socialism.

 

[xsited1]

I just love this thread..
We just endured an economic collapse into the largest recession since the 30s. The reason was unrestrained capitalism. We removed Government oversight and gave the banks and manufacturers free reign.
Now, any attempt to regain control of our shattered economy gets the dreaded label.....SOCIALISM

Is everyone scared yet?

I believe what you meant to say was 'unrestrained CRONY capitalism'.

 

[Vast LWC]

Newsflash!!!!!!!!

We ARE already a socialist country. We are NOT a democracy or a capitalist country anymore. We ceased being such with the Clinton Administration. Too bad for guys like you and me. The takeover of communism is next.

Newsflash!!!!

Socialism and democracy can, and do, exist hand-in-hand in many nations all over the world, including our own.

Governments can be Socialist-Democracies or Capitalist-Totalitarianisms, ruled by a small number of very rich people.

Plus, if our nation had been a socialist nation for the past decade, the wealth gap between rich and poor would have shrunk, wouldn't it? Instead it has grown by leaps and bounds.

In fact, for the past 30 years, governmental control over industry in general has been shrinking, not growing.

Which was the whole reason the current economic crisis occurred in the first place.

gaps between rich and poor have nothing to do with socialism. They have muchmore to do with communism. but the country as a whole isn't quite ready for that. But we have already embraced socialism.

Your implication was that it was socialism leading to communism, which would have included redistribution of wealth.

However, technically you are correct in that socialism does nt necessitate lowering wealth gaps.

However, it's also true that Socialism has nothing to do with Democracy.

 

[rightwinger]

I love how to a republican

Spending money to invade a country that is not a threat to you is .....PATRIOTISM

Spending money to help the American people is.............SOCIALISM

 

[Truthspeaker]

I love how to a republican

Spending money to invade a country that is not a threat to you is .....PATRIOTISM

Spending money to help the American people is.............SOCIALISM

If only that's what actually was happening. Then you would be right. However, the countries we are invading ARE a threat. Now that's a different subject for a different thread but that's where us right wingers stand.
And "helping the American people." is not the same as bailouts or widespread doling.

 

[Vast LWC]

If only that's what actually was happening. Then you would be right. However, the countries we are invading ARE a threat. Now that's a different subject for a different thread but that's where us right wingers stand.
And "helping the American people." is not the same as bailouts or widespread doling.

Iraq was not a threat. Period.

Afghanistan was, I'll give you that.

 

[Truthspeaker]

If only that's what actually was happening. Then you would be right. However, the countries we are invading ARE a threat. Now that's a different subject for a different thread but that's where us right wingers stand.
And "helping the American people." is not the same as bailouts or widespread doling.

Iraq was not a threat. Period.

Afghanistan was, I'll give you that.

Just because Iraq didn't represent an imminent attack doesn't mean they were not a threat. They were trying to become one. Also trying to incite the rest of the Arab countries against us. I call that a threat.

 

[Christopher]

I hate to say this but I am convinced there is no stopping America’s transition to Socialism. I will continue to argue against it and vote against it, but too many today are pushing towards it.

I understand that there is much more to Socialism than what I will discuss here; however, I would like to provide an analogy about how we are moving towards socialism and see how many of you agree with it.

Imagine with me for a moment that the free market system is like a large giant with the capability to accomplish much work and growth. Unrestrained, the giant can also create much destruction. So, America initially placed a long rope to give the giant enough freedom to accomplish work. Gradually, the American government has continued to shorten this rope and this has not necessarily been a bad thing to a degree. The problem is that now the balance of how long to make the rope is lost and the shortening of the rope because “the free market needs more controls” has become similar to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

What I mean by this is that those who ask for more controls are also saying the free market cannot function on its own and needs help, while they continually make it difficult for the free market to accomplish work by shortening the rope. It is almost like a trainer prodding an elephant to reach all the peanuts or hay when the trainer does not allow enough rope/chain to do so. As the elephant becomes more hysterical to reach the food, the trainer will say, “What is wrong with you? Why are you acting this way? There must be something wrong with the elephant and it needs more of my control. I’m going to shorten its chain so I can watch it more closely.” Eventually, the elephant will die and the trainer will ironically say “See, it needed my help all along”.

Now imagine that the giant is actually made up of all those individuals that are in the market, the small businesses, the investors, large corporations, etc. and each of these individuals or entities has a similar rope that keeps shortening. As the balance between being able to accomplish enough to be profitable with the short rope shifts towards unprofitability, each individual will begin to see other options. Some will say “The government is giving out ‘free’ pay with no effort and I cannot seem to make ends meet” and decide to get out of the market. Others will say “I can do better just working for the group at the end of this rope” or “it’s not worth the effort” and will get a job working for the government. What this also does is put more strain on those still making efforts against the short rope and intensifies the problem, since less individuals per capita are working in the free market and more individuals go on government support which have to be paid by increased taxes of the free market. All we have to do is consider the percent of government spending as a percent of GDP to see this.

Eventually, as more and more continue to rely on either “free” support from the government or a paycheck from the government, the “free market” will be “morphed” into one much larger, monopolized, and more destructive giant with little or no restraint: the government.

Newsflash!!!!!!!!

We ARE already a socialist country. We are NOT a democracy or a capitalist country anymore. We ceased being such with the Clinton Administration. Too bad for guys like you and me. The takeover of communism is next.

You are probably right. I guess I have been holding on to the hope we are not there yet. It does depend on the level with which we have moved towards socialism.

According to Marxist theory, the definition of socialism is: the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

 

[Christopher]

I just love this thread..
We just endured an economic collapse into the largest recession since the 30s. The reason was unrestrained capitalism. We removed Government oversight and gave the banks and manufacturers free reign.
Now, any attempt to regain control of our shattered economy gets the dreaded label.....SOCIALISM

Is everyone scared yet?

We endured it? That is a news flash. I assume you are talking about the “successful” stimulus spending. Spending our way out of this recession I think is only going to be temporary. The long term negative effects of the stimulus spending have yet to be seen. Of course, politicians are only concerned about what happens on their watch.

While there were many factors which created the recession, the government was definitely involved in its part of it. The government created a moral hazard in the market which increased the number of risky loans.

 

[rightwinger]

While there were many factors which created the recession, the government was definitely involved in its part of it. The government created a moral hazard in the market which increased the number of risky loans.

"Moral Hazard" ????

Nobody was providing oversight and these loans were pushed like popcorn. All part of the "free market" pushed by the neocons

 

[editec]

Socialism?

Is that what you think this is all leading us to? A socialist government and economy?

We should be that lucky.

Socialism implies that the leaders of the socialist nation care what happens to the nation and its people.

True Socialism may be a crappy form of government, but at least its a nationalistic form of government.

That's not where we're headed, Chris.

 

[Dr Grump]

Newsflash!!!!!!!!

We ARE already a socialist country. We are NOT a democracy or a capitalist country anymore. We ceased being such with the Clinton Administration. Too bad for guys like you and me. The takeover of communism is next.

Alarmist pap. you wouldn't know socialism if it kicked you in your arse...

 

[editec]

Newsflash!!!!!!!!

We ARE already a socialist country. We are NOT a democracy or a capitalist country anymore. We ceased being such with the Clinton Administration. Too bad for guys like you and me. The takeover of communism is next.

Alarmist pap. you wouldn't know socialism if it kicked you in your arse...

Politically, it's an oligarchy maquarading as a democratic republic, if anything.

Economically, we live in a mixed economy.

Mixed as in socialistic for the wealthiest 1/10th of 1%, and dog-eat-dog- capitalism for the working classes, and some kind of twisted welfare state for the bottom 1% or 2% of us.