Amrica Goin To Get In Big Jam W/ Pakistan If It keeps Mishandlin Thngs!

[JimofPennsylvan]

The American people and its leaders are really going to screw-up our relationship w/ Pakistan and cause mega problems on the Afghanistan/al Qaeda questions if they don't stop all their bad rhetoric on Pakistan. It is really way way over the line. First, we have to stop all our condemnation of the Pakistan government over Osama Bin Laden being found so close to Islamabad. We are not going to be able to prove nor is it probably true that the civil or military leaders new Bin Laden was in Abbottabad; they probably didn't the reasoning against them harboring him is too strong - it would violate international law - plus its strongly in Pakistan's interest to see Bin Laden brought to justice because they have their own terrorist problem and jihadi industry growth and having a strong deterrent against terrorism underscored by Bin Laden being brought to justice only helps them on these two fronts. These leaders probably didn't know he was in the Abbottabad compound because otherwise Bin Laden wouldn't have had to live like a rat always being so hidden and with such austerity. The Seal Operation to get Bin Laden was the right call but we violated Pakistani sovereignty in doing it and like any country they are displeased their sovereignty was violated so the American people and the American government need to drop this whole Bin Laden subject and move on. America needs to let the Bin Laden wound on Pakistan heal and not make it worse so we need to drop all this criticism talk related to Pakistan on this matter!



America has got to stop all its whining and complaining that the Pakistan Security services aren't doing enough to eliminate the Taliban and al qaeda. If we keep this up Pakistan is going to throw all Americans out of their country and stop all permission to conduct military operations on Pakistan soil and then we are going to be in deep deep manure. Because the Taliban and al qaeda have their home bases and training centers in western Pakistan and we won't be able to militarily degrade them and then we will never be able to bring victory in the war in Afghanistan, the Taliban will always be able to survive in Pakistan.



The American people should always keep in mind these truths when it comes to Pakistan. The Pakistan army doesn't have the military strength to eliminate the Taliban; the Pakistan government has every right to make the decision that they want to in holding a large percentage of their military resources to protect against the military threat from India which leaves limited resources available to fight and get rid of the Taliban in the western and northern parts of the country. America needs to keep in mind that the Pakistani civil and military leaders know the Taliban are their enemies and deep down want them eliminated. These leaders know that the Taliban offer a draconian, backward society that they definitely don't want, these leaders know want the Taliban did in the Swat Valley in recent years and they won't forget this. America just needs to be patient with Pakistan it may take fifteen to twenty years to achieve its goal but one can be certain that the Pakistan government has as its goal to have full military and political control over the entirety of Pakistan which leaves no room for the Taliban. The American people and government need to appreciate the pressure the Pakistan government is under from its own public with respect to its helping America; Pakistan is a Muslim country and like many Muslim peoples throughout the greater Middle East there is a lot of anti-American sentiment maybe its because of our support for Israel, maybe its because we are a wealthy people and many Muslim people do not have prosperity and frankly it could be in part due to a flaw in the Muslim religion - the Muslim religion with respect to many Muslim really creates a warpness a disturbed state in many holders of the Muslim faith, this quality rears its ugly head in many Muslims support for anti-blaspheming laws which give a life sentence for defiling the Quran and a death sentence for defaming the prophet Muhammad - this is indefensible from a justice standpoint. In short, the American people need to judge Pakistan government leaders with great understanding because of these public pressures.





Lastly, if in the future the U.S. military captures and/or kills a major terrorist leader like Ayman al Zawahiri and in the process violates another country's sovereignty the American government shouldn't announce it publicly report it to Congressional leaders to make sure it was legal but don't report the operation publicly. Months after the operation the U.S. government can announce the death of the terrorist leader but refuse to announce the details of the operation for national security reasons; no reason to risk an international crisis over these things!

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - send in the Navy Seals after him...

Pentagon: US Will Capture and Kill New Al-Qaida Leader
June 16, 2011 - Top Pentagon officials say the U.S. military will capture and kill al-Qaida’s new leader and that he will meet the same fate as Osama bin Laden.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates told reporters at the Pentagon Ayman al-Zawahri will face challenges as al-Qaida’s new leader, saying he lacks what Gates referred to as bin Laden’s “peculiar charisma.” Gates says Zawahri, who was bin Laden’s deputy, also does not have the operational experience of the former leader who was killed last month by U.S. Special Forces during a raid in Pakistan. “This announcement by al-Qaida reminds us that despite having suffered a huge loss with the killing of bin Laden and a number of others al-Qaida seeks to perpetuate itself, seeks to find replacements for those who have been killed and remains committed to the agenda that bin Laden put before them," said Gates.

Joining Gates at the briefing was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen who said the U.S. will hunt down al-Qaida’s new leader. “He and his organization still threaten us," said Mullen. "As we did both seek to capture and kill and succeed in killing bin Laden we certainly will do the same thing with Zawahri.” Since the death of bin Laden U.S. relations with Pakistan have been severely strained and some members of the Congress have questioned the billions of dollars in aid sent by Washington to Islamabad.

Secretary Gates said Pakistan remains an important ally and the lines of communication between the two countries must remain open. “We need each other and we need each other more than just in the context of Afghanistan," he said. "Pakistan is an important player in terms of regional stability and in terms of Central Asia and so my view is that this is a relationship where we just need to keep working at it.” Admiral Mullen, who along with Gates has made repeated trips to Pakistan, says terrorists in South Asia seek to get their hands on Islamabad’s nuclear technology.

“Of those things that I fear in the future it is the proliferation of that technology and it is the opportunity and the potential that it could fall into the hands of terrorists, many of whom are alive and well and seek that in that region and that is of great interest I think to our country and certainly to the rest of the world," he said. The media briefing is expected to be the last for Secretary Gates at the Pentagon, who is retiring after four-and-a-half years on the job at the end of this month. U.S. President Barack Obama has chosen CIA director Leon Panetta to takeover at the Pentagon.

Source

 

[Ringel05]

The American people and its leaders are really going to screw-up our relationship w/ Pakistan and cause mega problems on the Afghanistan/al Qaeda questions if they don't stop all their bad rhetoric on Pakistan. It is really way way over the line. First, we have to stop all our condemnation of the Pakistan government over Osama Bin Laden being found so close to Islamabad. We are not going to be able to prove nor is it probably true that the civil or military leaders new Bin Laden was in Abbottabad; they probably didn't the reasoning against them harboring him is too strong - it would violate international law - plus its strongly in Pakistan's interest to see Bin Laden brought to justice because they have their own terrorist problem and jihadi industry growth and having a strong deterrent against terrorism underscored by Bin Laden being brought to justice only helps them on these two fronts. These leaders probably didn't know he was in the Abbottabad compound because otherwise Bin Laden wouldn't have had to live like a rat always being so hidden and with such austerity. The Seal Operation to get Bin Laden was the right call but we violated Pakistani sovereignty in doing it and like any country they are displeased their sovereignty was violated so the American people and the American government need to drop this whole Bin Laden subject and move on. America needs to let the Bin Laden wound on Pakistan heal and not make it worse so we need to drop all this criticism talk related to Pakistan on this matter!



America has got to stop all its whining and complaining that the Pakistan Security services aren't doing enough to eliminate the Taliban and al qaeda. If we keep this up Pakistan is going to throw all Americans out of their country and stop all permission to conduct military operations on Pakistan soil and then we are going to be in deep deep manure. Because the Taliban and al qaeda have their home bases and training centers in western Pakistan and we won't be able to militarily degrade them and then we will never be able to bring victory in the war in Afghanistan, the Taliban will always be able to survive in Pakistan.



The American people should always keep in mind these truths when it comes to Pakistan. The Pakistan army doesn't have the military strength to eliminate the Taliban; the Pakistan government has every right to make the decision that they want to in holding a large percentage of their military resources to protect against the military threat from India which leaves limited resources available to fight and get rid of the Taliban in the western and northern parts of the country. America needs to keep in mind that the Pakistani civil and military leaders know the Taliban are their enemies and deep down want them eliminated. These leaders know that the Taliban offer a draconian, backward society that they definitely don't want, these leaders know want the Taliban did in the Swat Valley in recent years and they won't forget this. America just needs to be patient with Pakistan it may take fifteen to twenty years to achieve its goal but one can be certain that the Pakistan government has as its goal to have full military and political control over the entirety of Pakistan which leaves no room for the Taliban. The American people and government need to appreciate the pressure the Pakistan government is under from its own public with respect to its helping America; Pakistan is a Muslim country and like many Muslim peoples throughout the greater Middle East there is a lot of anti-American sentiment maybe its because of our support for Israel, maybe its because we are a wealthy people and many Muslim people do not have prosperity and frankly it could be in part due to a flaw in the Muslim religion - the Muslim religion with respect to many Muslim really creates a warpness a disturbed state in many holders of the Muslim faith, this quality rears its ugly head in many Muslims support for anti-blaspheming laws which give a life sentence for defiling the Quran and a death sentence for defaming the prophet Muhammad - this is indefensible from a justice standpoint. In short, the American people need to judge Pakistan government leaders with great understanding because of these public pressures.





Lastly, if in the future the U.S. military captures and/or kills a major terrorist leader like Ayman al Zawahiri and in the process violates another country's sovereignty the American government shouldn't announce it publicly report it to Congressional leaders to make sure it was legal but don't report the operation publicly. Months after the operation the U.S. government can announce the death of the terrorist leader but refuse to announce the details of the operation for national security reasons; no reason to risk an international crisis over these things!

One or two items you got right, the rest of it......no. Yes we need to be out of both Pakistan and Afghanistan, the war against the Taliban is un-winnable, not because of our lack of commitment but because of the nature of the Afghani and Pakistani people, they're opportunists, they switch sides depending on who is making the better offer at the time plus an inherent distrust of outsiders (that means us) as well as the continued anti-US propaganda by the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Oh and it was the Pakistani secret service who first setup and empowered the Taliban and there are a lot of tribal allegiances on both sides of the border that are still involved. The Pakis are playing both sides of the fence for their own profit, keep the natives happy by playing up the Islamic song and dance while keeping us psudo placated to continue receiving our money.
If you honestly think the Paki leadership, Army and secret service didn't know where OBL was the whole time you're fooling yourself.
As for Afghanistan the only thing Karzai is president of is Kabul, outside of that city region he is, at best, ignored, the country is still locked in a tribal social system.
Ya might want to learn a little bit about the region and it's peoples before making far fetched claims, or not.

 

[gautama]

Pakistan ???

Time to play the India card.

Long overdue.