Amnesty for illegals is next up

[rhodescholar]

Hey RW! did you miss what I said? Target tried to check ID.. La Raza and the ACLU are on their backs with a lawsuit???? Hello..

So what they sued? The ACLU is a total fucking embarrassment, and 99% of americans that know la raza recognize it as a piece of trash.

Anyone can sue anyone, who cares?

Target is a huge company with a massive in-house legal department, and can easily fend off nuisance suits like this for about 1,000 years.

 

[Zona]

i heard Obama is going to get rev wright to be the official religion czar and have a chapel in the white house.

 

[Zona]

i heard obama wants to open the boarders, make islam our national religion and and and.....




idiots.

Now your getting it, your finally seeing reality..............

I also heard he is going to get his friend Ayers a high level job in the white house.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

And I am staying right here and inviting all my "wetback" friends, to your house for a Cinco de Mayo celebration,

You do that. I'll be happy to help reduce their population.

 

[antagon]

I'm so/so on amnesty.

For one thing, I don't think rewarding people for breaking the law sets a good precedence. Better to change the laws than to reward lawbreakers. So make the changes and allow more migrant workers to come to the states... legally.

I have said it before, illegal aliens come to the states because we the people beg them to come. Until we quit begging and making it possible for them to come here, they are going to keep coming. Send them home, and they we be on the next train back.

Our immigration policy needs to change. If we want and can employ X number of migrant workers then we should give visas to X number of migrant workers. They should have to remain employed and pay taxes like everyone else. The artificially low number of legal immigrants is the problem here.

Of course, many corporations won't like that idea because where they win is in paying these people below market wages and not having to pay FICA/Medicare taxes to boot, so the chances of that happening thanks to lobbyists is... oh, about nil.

Immie

there should not be any type of amnesty for free. there needs to be a fee to represent the demand you claim there is for immigrants here and the clear demand there is for people to come here and chase the dream. if you like the idea of a penal component, you can make it a 'fine', but however you get it, im thinking $5-$7k is about right for a residence/work visa. maybe annual renewal. if theyve got a job, their employer could pay for them.

the government will never get a quota right. as much as they'd love to take bribes from special interests to set that, i say why bother. the artificially high unemployment rate doesnt reflect 7-10 million undocumented workers, thats for certain.

the best way to enforce shit in the US is with a fine. if the government saw benefit instead of cost with enforcement, theyll be on it like a san diego meter maid.... thats ON IT.

Charging five thousand dollars to enter the country would not do anything to change the problem of illegal immigrants. Most of them coming into the states could never afford that and would simply enter the states illegally as they do now. Nor do I see an employer paying for them. They are cheap labor, but adding $5k to the cost is reducing the value of hiring illegal workers.

As long as our laws are as they are now, an employer who risks hiring illegal aliens should be subject to fines for doing so.

Immie

i agree with a fine for employers, but without making a way to obtain status for as much cash, id say we'd find ourselves in the same spot. its already illegal.

noisy hicks like proletarian dont represent the nation's direction as demonstrated through its persistent action/inaction. they are, however, the voice proclaiming political suicide for any statesman to bring policy in line with this direction. im convinced the cost of this gap is in the hundreds of billions every year.

youll be surprised the immigrants who would come up with the cash and employers who would walk away from their immigrant hiring policies over a matter of 5 grand. illegals come here broke, but the hard-working ones dont stay that way. from first hand experience, immigrants in the building industry arent cheap labor like they were, maybe 10 years ago, either. i compete all year with immigrant work crews and not over price alone.

i dont mind the competition, but i wish they shared the tax burden with me.

i dont want the US to wage another war-on... like the war on drugs or the war on terror. the war-on model of insincere enforcement to apease the proletarians of the nation with one hand, while stroking special interest with the other is garbage. until we grow up and can swallow real, 'follow the money' policies as a nation, a war-on immigration with bullshit results is all we'll aspire to and doubtfully obtain.

 

[antagon]

yeah, and $5-$7k for a visa or citizenship, not just to enter the country. thatll never work. I mean to make legal status worth something to the government, to the immigrant, and their employers.

huff and puff, but it is clearly not worth anything now to anyone. you'll get more heat for stealing a pack of shitpaper than stealing $20-$40k in undocumented labor in the greatest country on the planet.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

noisy hicks like proletarian dont represent the nation's direction as demonstrated through its persistent action/inaction.

Firstly, I'm no hick. Secondly, most Americans don't support the ending of America's existence as a sovereign nation. Some of us enjoy a peacable nation built upon principles and just laws, but I don't suppose you'd understand such a concept. You support crime and the destruction of the republic. I support the continued existence of our civilization.

 

[Immanuel]

there should not be any type of amnesty for free. there needs to be a fee to represent the demand you claim there is for immigrants here and the clear demand there is for people to come here and chase the dream. if you like the idea of a penal component, you can make it a 'fine', but however you get it, im thinking $5-$7k is about right for a residence/work visa. maybe annual renewal. if theyve got a job, their employer could pay for them.

the government will never get a quota right. as much as they'd love to take bribes from special interests to set that, i say why bother. the artificially high unemployment rate doesnt reflect 7-10 million undocumented workers, thats for certain.

the best way to enforce shit in the US is with a fine. if the government saw benefit instead of cost with enforcement, theyll be on it like a san diego meter maid.... thats ON IT.

Charging five thousand dollars to enter the country would not do anything to change the problem of illegal immigrants. Most of them coming into the states could never afford that and would simply enter the states illegally as they do now. Nor do I see an employer paying for them. They are cheap labor, but adding $5k to the cost is reducing the value of hiring illegal workers.

As long as our laws are as they are now, an employer who risks hiring illegal aliens should be subject to fines for doing so.

Immie

i dont mind the competition, but i wish they shared the tax burden with me.

That right there is a lot of the problem. They don't share the tax burden (income tax or payroll taxes) nor do people who hire them under the table have to pay FICA/Medicare taxes so they can charge nearly the same as you do, but still save the employer 7.65%.

Proletarian kind of gave me a hard time for my statement earlier about being 50/50. I am not for illegal immigration nor am I for amnesty. I simply believe that our government is not being realistic in setting legal immigration numbers. Our economy wants and needs the low cost labor that they provide especially in the agricultural fields. It appears you are in the construction field. Allowing illegal aliens to enter the states, and perform construction services for which they may not be qualified is unsafe at the least. So, allowing more immigrants and putting them to work legally under subcontractors would, I believe, make things safer for all of us.

My point is that if we allow them to come here legally and work under our own laws (including minimum wage and child labor laws), pay taxes as we do etc. etc. etc. then we won't have the undercutting of our economy that is now going on to anywhere near the degree we do now. Corporations won't like that... but tough shit! Of course, the corporations are why this won't happen.

Immie

 

[☭proletarian☭]

My point is that if we allow them to come here legally and work under our own laws (including minimum wage and child labor laws), pay taxes as we do etc. etc. etc. then we won't have the undercutting of our economy that is now going on to anywhere near the degree we do now. Corporations won't like that... but tough shit! Of course, the corporations are why this won't happen.

Immie

We do let them do that. They choose not to because they're criminals.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

CIR ASAP, uh huh.

LA Rasa probably has a definition of CIR where the R stand for Reconquista

"There are some families who have been here for 4 or 500 years. They didn't cross the border, the border crossed them." -- Barack Hussein Obama, American most anti-American President (Ohh, how Malcolm X like! Yet another pilfered Obama Speech. Just words? Just speeches?)

Barack Obama's Reconquista 101: "they didn't cross the border, the border crossed them", Indians aren't immigrants

 

[Immanuel]

My point is that if we allow them to come here legally and work under our own laws (including minimum wage and child labor laws), pay taxes as we do etc. etc. etc. then we won't have the undercutting of our economy that is now going on to anywhere near the degree we do now. Corporations won't like that... but tough shit! Of course, the corporations are why this won't happen.

Immie

We do let them do that. They choose not to because they're criminals.

No, we set ridiculously low immigration numbers, beg for millions more of them to come here, pay them much better than they could make in their homelands and then whine when they come here.

My point is that we legally invite such low numbers into the states but we beg for so many more to come. If we are going to make it so lucrative for them to come to the states, they are going to come.

That is not to excuse the fact that they are breaking our laws, just a matter of fact statement that if you make a crime profitable enough, or make the punishment for breaking it minimal enough, people are going to break the law.

Jaywalking is a perfect example. Speeding is another. The consequences of breaking those laws are so minute that people break them all the time. I must admit that I drive 5-9 miles per hour over the speed limit all the time. I know I probably won't get pulled over for driving that speed and even if I do, the cost won't break my bank account. Increase the cost of speeding and I am going to slow down.

Increase the costs of coming here illegally and fewer illegals are going to enter the states. But as I said, we the people (who like our conveniences) and the corporations who try to keep the cost of production to a minimum beg for illegals to come.

If you are going to make the costs of coming here illegally so bloody cheap then they are going to come... period!

Immie

 

[☭proletarian☭]

USCIS - Immigration Classifications and Visa Categories

 

[Immanuel]

USCIS - Immigration Classifications and Visa Categories

And your point is?

I have stated repeatedly that we simply set our immigrations limitation too low. I did not say we allow zero immigrants.

Immie

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I have stated repeatedly that we simply set our immigrations limitation too low

A moronic statement that assumes we need Mexicans coming here in the first place. We have no need for them; we let them in out of kindness because they're too stupid to run a nation since they White man gave up and the Spaniards left. They want to come live in a first-world nation and we're kind enough to let them.

They need us, not the other way around.

 

[Immanuel]

I have stated repeatedly that we simply set our immigrations limitation too low

A moronic statement that assumes we need Mexicans coming here in the first place. We have no need for them; we let them in out of kindness because they're too stupid to run a nation since they White man gave up and the Spaniards left. They want to come live in a first-world nation and we're kind enough to let them.

They need us, not the other way around. Hell, American dollars sent to Mexico are one of the largest sources of the nation's income, not including the money from the drug cartels. We're keeping that shithole afloat as is.

No, it is you that have provided the moronic statements over and over in this discussion.

As for the money that we send to Mexico, you realize that it doesn't trickle down to those who cross the border right?

Immie

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Moronic statements are you arguing in favour or forced lobotomies and rape (the logical implication of your argument) and JD talking about how her dog got her pregnant.

Now, if you ever decide to forward an argument that makes sense, let us know.

 

[Immanuel]

Moronic statements are you arguing in favour or forced lobotomies and rape (the logical implication of your argument) and JD talking about how her dog got her pregnant.

Now, if you ever decide to forward an argument that makes sense, let us know.

Can't handle the open discussion I see.

Come back when you can actually discuss the issue.

Immie

 

[Angelhair]

Illegals are given too many perks and too many rights and too many EVERYTHING!! It's time to stop. If it is not stopped, the invasion will continue and the demise of this country is not far behind.

 

[antagon]

Of course, the corporations are why this won't happen.

Immie

corporations are pro-immigration. hint: prole and the folks thatll rename you mcamnesty if you take a realistic approach to immigration are the ones who are holding up immigration progress. as usual. 200+y/o tradition.

large industry cannot effectively hire illegals like people think. from my perspective in the building industry, its simply not how people think with a bunch of illegals building homes en masse. there are a bunch of mexicans building homes, but theyve got docs. the vast majority of illegals working in building work for mini-builders.

 

[Immanuel]

Of course, the corporations are why this won't happen.

Immie

corporations are pro-immigration. hint: prole and the folks thatll rename you mcamnesty if you take a realistic approach to immigration are the ones who are holding up immigration progress. as usual. 200+y/o tradition.

large industry cannot effectively hire illegals like people think. from my perspective in the building industry, its simply not how people think with a bunch of illegals building homes en masse. there are a bunch of mexicans building homes, but theyve got docs. the vast majority of illegals working in building work for mini-builders.

True, large industry can't. One good reason is that they are unionized and trying to bring an illegal into a unionized location would not be very smart, but I am not talking about the GM's and Fords. I'm talking about the Walmarts of the country.

I contend that illegals come to this country because we pay them to come. This nation pratically begs them to come here. The economic theory of Supply and Demand works here very well. Illegals come here because despite our rhetoric, we pay them here.

Many of those who bitch about illegals hire them. Hell, even politicians hire them and play dumb when it turns up that their maid was not a legal immigrant.

Immie