America's Religion

[PoliticalChic]

There have been a number of threads based on one view of religion in America, or another, but each has been limited in that they are for or against religion or a particular religion…

What has been overlooked is that there is a species of religion that is the nexus of religion and politics, that occupies a large part of the public space. Civil religion.

1. Civil religion is not a state religion, but rather an expression that religionizes national values, national heroes, national history, and national ideals The prayers offered by “civil religion” are to a expansive god-behind-all-gods—a national unifying god. Civil religion is the common ecumenical ground where we all can gather—not just all Christian denominations, but all religions, and even the great host of people who practice no formal religion at all but believe in god and prayer. This is civil religion. The god of civil religion is the "higher power as you know it"—the god behind all religions and everything else.
Civil Religion

2. Civil religion uses religious-type words and methods to produce a unifying national religion. We have a series of hallowed rituals like the state of the union address, the national funeral of a President or inauguration. Civil religion finds its saints in the national heroes like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and others. We have enshrined the sacred text of the Constitution, the death of Lincoln is our own story of giving one’s life so that others may live; Arlington cemetery is just one of a dozen sacred places for us, complete with its "eternal flame." Our flag is such a sacred object to us that we urge our congress to pass a law nobody may "desecrate" it—one can only desecrate what is sacred. We often merge our piety with our patriotism. Freedom is the ultimate value and we are willing to die for it.

a. The American’s book of Genesis is the Mayflower Compact. Our exodus is the Declaration of Independence. Our book of the law is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We have our periodic prophecies, the greatest being Washington's farewell address. Our psalms include the Star Spangled Banner and God bless America. The gospel of true Americanism is Lincoln's second Inaugural address, and so forth. This is what civil religion does. It uses the means and words of religion to unify the state. Ibid.

3. Our Presidents express this civil religion:

a. Although President Kennedy recognized this as a largely Protestant nation, he did make frequent references to god—three times in his inaugural address. Robert Bellah, in 1967 first made the keen observation that John Kennedy's use of "god" however was not in the narrow sense as a Roman Catholic, but in the broader sense as a the god-of-us-all, the god of American civil religion. Bellah suggested that Kennedy was doing exactly what his predecessors had done—referring to the unifying god of American civil religion, not any specific narrow denominational god or even the god organized religion like the Christian god, or Roman Catholic understanding of God. It was the god-above-all-gods, the god of American civil religion.

b. Another example of civil religion can be seen in Barak Obama’s speech on race and religion, which begins:
"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."
Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy.

And here is the attempt to for a more perfect union between the races…he speaks of the original sin of slavery…thus the melding of religion and politics…usual in America.

What is difficult to see is President Obama's synthesis of this idea with his professed view that America is no more exceptional than any other nation.

Our civil religion is the bridge between a liberal secularism, that wishes to see no religious expression in the public space, and a 'religious nationalism,' that would allow none but Christians in said space.

See also, Civil religion - Definition, and Echoes of American civil religion The Immanent Frame and
American civil religion - New World Encyclopedia and
http://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/dspace/bitstream/1808/366/1/Covenant and Civil Religion.pdf and
American civil religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[HUGGY]

There have been a number of threads based on one view of religion in America, or another, but each has been limited in that they are for or against religion or a particular religion…

What has been overlooked is that there is a species of religion that is the nexus of religion and politics, that occupies a large part of the public space. Civil religion.

1. Civil religion is not a state religion, but rather an expression that religionizes national values, national heroes, national history, and national ideals The prayers offered by “civil religion” are to a expansive god-behind-all-gods—a national unifying god. Civil religion is the common ecumenical ground where we all can gather—not just all Christian denominations, but all religions, and even the great host of people who practice no formal religion at all but believe in god and prayer. This is civil religion. The god of civil religion is the "higher power as you know it"—the god behind all religions and everything else.
Civil Religion

2. Civil religion uses religious-type words and methods to produce a unifying national religion. We have a series of hallowed rituals like the state of the union address, the national funeral of a President or inauguration. Civil religion finds its saints in the national heroes like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and others. We have enshrined the sacred text of the Constitution, the death of Lincoln is our own story of giving one’s life so that others may live; Arlington cemetery is just one of a dozen sacred places for us, complete with its "eternal flame." Our flag is such a sacred object to us that we urge our congress to pass a law nobody may "desecrate" it—one can only desecrate what is sacred. We often merge our piety with our patriotism. Freedom is the ultimate value and we are willing to die for it.

a. The American’s book of Genesis is the Mayflower Compact. Our exodus is the Declaration of Independence. Our book of the law is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We have our periodic prophecies, the greatest being Washington's farewell address. Our psalms include the Star Spangled Banner and God bless America. The gospel of true Americanism is Lincoln's second Inaugural address, and so forth. This is what civil religion does. It uses the means and words of religion to unify the state. Ibid.

3. Our Presidents express this civil religion:

a. Although President Kennedy recognized this as a largely Protestant nation, he did make frequent references to god—three times in his inaugural address. Robert Bellah, in 1967 first made the keen observation that John Kennedy's use of "god" however was not in the narrow sense as a Roman Catholic, but in the broader sense as a the god-of-us-all, the god of American civil religion. Bellah suggested that Kennedy was doing exactly what his predecessors had done—referring to the unifying god of American civil religion, not any specific narrow denominational god or even the god organized religion like the Christian god, or Roman Catholic understanding of God. It was the god-above-all-gods, the god of American civil religion.

b. Another example of civil religion can be seen in Barak Obama’s speech on race and religion, which begins:
"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."
Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy.

And here is the attempt to for a more perfect union between the races…he speaks of the original sin of slavery…thus the melding of religion and politics…usual in America.

What is difficult to see is President Obama's synthesis of this idea with his professed view that America is no more exceptional than any other nation.

Our civil religion is the bridge between a liberal secularism, that wishes to see no religious expression in the public space, and a 'religious nationalism,' that would allow none but Christians in said space.

See also, Civil religion - Definition, and Echoes of American civil religion The Immanent Frame and
American civil religion - New World Encyclopedia and
http://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/dspace/bitstream/1808/366/1/Covenant and Civil Religion.pdf and
American civil religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah!!!! Chick-o-letts raises the bar from nonsense to super nationalistic nonsense. Well done!!! That's a high hurdle lassy.!!

 

[PoliticalChic]

There have been a number of threads based on one view of religion in America, or another, but each has been limited in that they are for or against religion or a particular religion…

What has been overlooked is that there is a species of religion that is the nexus of religion and politics, that occupies a large part of the public space. Civil religion.

1. Civil religion is not a state religion, but rather an expression that religionizes national values, national heroes, national history, and national ideals The prayers offered by “civil religion” are to a expansive god-behind-all-gods—a national unifying god. Civil religion is the common ecumenical ground where we all can gather—not just all Christian denominations, but all religions, and even the great host of people who practice no formal religion at all but believe in god and prayer. This is civil religion. The god of civil religion is the "higher power as you know it"—the god behind all religions and everything else.
Civil Religion

2. Civil religion uses religious-type words and methods to produce a unifying national religion. We have a series of hallowed rituals like the state of the union address, the national funeral of a President or inauguration. Civil religion finds its saints in the national heroes like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and others. We have enshrined the sacred text of the Constitution, the death of Lincoln is our own story of giving one’s life so that others may live; Arlington cemetery is just one of a dozen sacred places for us, complete with its "eternal flame." Our flag is such a sacred object to us that we urge our congress to pass a law nobody may "desecrate" it—one can only desecrate what is sacred. We often merge our piety with our patriotism. Freedom is the ultimate value and we are willing to die for it.

a. The American’s book of Genesis is the Mayflower Compact. Our exodus is the Declaration of Independence. Our book of the law is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We have our periodic prophecies, the greatest being Washington's farewell address. Our psalms include the Star Spangled Banner and God bless America. The gospel of true Americanism is Lincoln's second Inaugural address, and so forth. This is what civil religion does. It uses the means and words of religion to unify the state. Ibid.

3. Our Presidents express this civil religion:

a. Although President Kennedy recognized this as a largely Protestant nation, he did make frequent references to god—three times in his inaugural address. Robert Bellah, in 1967 first made the keen observation that John Kennedy's use of "god" however was not in the narrow sense as a Roman Catholic, but in the broader sense as a the god-of-us-all, the god of American civil religion. Bellah suggested that Kennedy was doing exactly what his predecessors had done—referring to the unifying god of American civil religion, not any specific narrow denominational god or even the god organized religion like the Christian god, or Roman Catholic understanding of God. It was the god-above-all-gods, the god of American civil religion.

b. Another example of civil religion can be seen in Barak Obama’s speech on race and religion, which begins:
"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."
Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy.

And here is the attempt to for a more perfect union between the races…he speaks of the original sin of slavery…thus the melding of religion and politics…usual in America.

What is difficult to see is President Obama's synthesis of this idea with his professed view that America is no more exceptional than any other nation.

Our civil religion is the bridge between a liberal secularism, that wishes to see no religious expression in the public space, and a 'religious nationalism,' that would allow none but Christians in said space.

See also, Civil religion - Definition, and Echoes of American civil religion The Immanent Frame and
American civil religion - New World Encyclopedia and
http://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/dspace/bitstream/1808/366/1/Covenant and Civil Religion.pdf and
American civil religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah!!!! Chick-o-letts raises the bar from nonsense to super nationalistic nonsense. Well done!!! That's a high hurdle lassy.!!

I'm gonna guess that your post means that you understand neither the OP, nor the American people.


Sorry about that, Hugs.

 

[Revere]

There have been a number of threads based on one view of religion in America, or another, but each has been limited in that they are for or against religion or a particular religion…

What has been overlooked is that there is a species of religion that is the nexus of religion and politics, that occupies a large part of the public space. Civil religion.

1. Civil religion is not a state religion, but rather an expression that religionizes national values, national heroes, national history, and national ideals The prayers offered by “civil religion” are to a expansive god-behind-all-gods—a national unifying god. Civil religion is the common ecumenical ground where we all can gather—not just all Christian denominations, but all religions, and even the great host of people who practice no formal religion at all but believe in god and prayer. This is civil religion. The god of civil religion is the "higher power as you know it"—the god behind all religions and everything else.
Civil Religion

2. Civil religion uses religious-type words and methods to produce a unifying national religion. We have a series of hallowed rituals like the state of the union address, the national funeral of a President or inauguration. Civil religion finds its saints in the national heroes like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and others. We have enshrined the sacred text of the Constitution, the death of Lincoln is our own story of giving one’s life so that others may live; Arlington cemetery is just one of a dozen sacred places for us, complete with its "eternal flame." Our flag is such a sacred object to us that we urge our congress to pass a law nobody may "desecrate" it—one can only desecrate what is sacred. We often merge our piety with our patriotism. Freedom is the ultimate value and we are willing to die for it.

a. The American’s book of Genesis is the Mayflower Compact. Our exodus is the Declaration of Independence. Our book of the law is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We have our periodic prophecies, the greatest being Washington's farewell address. Our psalms include the Star Spangled Banner and God bless America. The gospel of true Americanism is Lincoln's second Inaugural address, and so forth. This is what civil religion does. It uses the means and words of religion to unify the state. Ibid.

3. Our Presidents express this civil religion:

a. Although President Kennedy recognized this as a largely Protestant nation, he did make frequent references to god—three times in his inaugural address. Robert Bellah, in 1967 first made the keen observation that John Kennedy's use of "god" however was not in the narrow sense as a Roman Catholic, but in the broader sense as a the god-of-us-all, the god of American civil religion. Bellah suggested that Kennedy was doing exactly what his predecessors had done—referring to the unifying god of American civil religion, not any specific narrow denominational god or even the god organized religion like the Christian god, or Roman Catholic understanding of God. It was the god-above-all-gods, the god of American civil religion.

b. Another example of civil religion can be seen in Barak Obama’s speech on race and religion, which begins:
"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."
Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy.

And here is the attempt to for a more perfect union between the races…he speaks of the original sin of slavery…thus the melding of religion and politics…usual in America.

What is difficult to see is President Obama's synthesis of this idea with his professed view that America is no more exceptional than any other nation.

Our civil religion is the bridge between a liberal secularism, that wishes to see no religious expression in the public space, and a 'religious nationalism,' that would allow none but Christians in said space.

See also, Civil religion - Definition, and Echoes of American civil religion The Immanent Frame and
American civil religion - New World Encyclopedia and
http://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/dspace/bitstream/1808/366/1/Covenant and Civil Religion.pdf and
American civil religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah!!!! Chick-o-letts raises the bar from nonsense to super nationalistic nonsense. Well done!!! That's a high hurdle lassy.!!

I'm gonna guess that your post means that you understand neither the OP, nor the American people.


Sorry about that, Hugs.

Both. Huggy is the USMB pseudo-intellectual laureate.

 

[HUGGY]

There have been a number of threads based on one view of religion in America, or another, but each has been limited in that they are for or against religion or a particular religion…

What has been overlooked is that there is a species of religion that is the nexus of religion and politics, that occupies a large part of the public space. Civil religion.

1. Civil religion is not a state religion, but rather an expression that religionizes national values, national heroes, national history, and national ideals The prayers offered by “civil religion” are to a expansive god-behind-all-gods—a national unifying god. Civil religion is the common ecumenical ground where we all can gather—not just all Christian denominations, but all religions, and even the great host of people who practice no formal religion at all but believe in god and prayer. This is civil religion. The god of civil religion is the "higher power as you know it"—the god behind all religions and everything else.
Civil Religion

2. Civil religion uses religious-type words and methods to produce a unifying national religion. We have a series of hallowed rituals like the state of the union address, the national funeral of a President or inauguration. Civil religion finds its saints in the national heroes like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and others. We have enshrined the sacred text of the Constitution, the death of Lincoln is our own story of giving one’s life so that others may live; Arlington cemetery is just one of a dozen sacred places for us, complete with its "eternal flame." Our flag is such a sacred object to us that we urge our congress to pass a law nobody may "desecrate" it—one can only desecrate what is sacred. We often merge our piety with our patriotism. Freedom is the ultimate value and we are willing to die for it.

a. The American’s book of Genesis is the Mayflower Compact. Our exodus is the Declaration of Independence. Our book of the law is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We have our periodic prophecies, the greatest being Washington's farewell address. Our psalms include the Star Spangled Banner and God bless America. The gospel of true Americanism is Lincoln's second Inaugural address, and so forth. This is what civil religion does. It uses the means and words of religion to unify the state. Ibid.

3. Our Presidents express this civil religion:

a. Although President Kennedy recognized this as a largely Protestant nation, he did make frequent references to god—three times in his inaugural address. Robert Bellah, in 1967 first made the keen observation that John Kennedy's use of "god" however was not in the narrow sense as a Roman Catholic, but in the broader sense as a the god-of-us-all, the god of American civil religion. Bellah suggested that Kennedy was doing exactly what his predecessors had done—referring to the unifying god of American civil religion, not any specific narrow denominational god or even the god organized religion like the Christian god, or Roman Catholic understanding of God. It was the god-above-all-gods, the god of American civil religion.

b. Another example of civil religion can be seen in Barak Obama’s speech on race and religion, which begins:
"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."
Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy.

And here is the attempt to for a more perfect union between the races…he speaks of the original sin of slavery…thus the melding of religion and politics…usual in America.

What is difficult to see is President Obama's synthesis of this idea with his professed view that America is no more exceptional than any other nation.

Our civil religion is the bridge between a liberal secularism, that wishes to see no religious expression in the public space, and a 'religious nationalism,' that would allow none but Christians in said space.

See also, Civil religion - Definition, and Echoes of American civil religion The Immanent Frame and
American civil religion - New World Encyclopedia and
http://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/dspace/bitstream/1808/366/1/Covenant and Civil Religion.pdf and
American civil religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah!!!! Chick-o-letts raises the bar from nonsense to super nationalistic nonsense. Well done!!! That's a high hurdle lassy.!!

I'm gonna guess that your post means that you understand neither the OP, nor the American people.


Sorry about that, Hugs.

I understand that atheism is the fastest growing view on religion. It is at about 18% up from 7% 20 years ago. We don't need a super god. We need an informed political public that understands science and truth and democracy.

 

[Revere]

Ah!!!! Chick-o-letts raises the bar from nonsense to super nationalistic nonsense. Well done!!! That's a high hurdle lassy.!!

I'm gonna guess that your post means that you understand neither the OP, nor the American people.


Sorry about that, Hugs.

I understand that atheism is the fastest growing view on religion. It is at about 18% up from 7% 20 years ago. We don't need a super god. We need an informed political public that understands science and truth and democracy.

That's YOUR god, then.

 

[Coyote]

America's Religion: storefront house of worship beneath arches of gold and where burgeoning acolytes consume succulent sacred wafers in a communion of appetite, grease and speedy service....truely the fasted growing religion in the world!

 

[Revere]

Oh, and sluggy, if you're right, why do you need to be popular? 18% after 20 years? Why does it matter?

Is atheism like AGW, where you can be wrong, but if you're on the path toward consensus, then you're less wrong?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ah!!!! Chick-o-letts raises the bar from nonsense to super nationalistic nonsense. Well done!!! That's a high hurdle lassy.!!

I'm gonna guess that your post means that you understand neither the OP, nor the American people.


Sorry about that, Hugs.

I understand that atheism is the fastest growing view on religion. It is at about 18% up from 7% 20 years ago. We don't need a super god. We need an informed political public that understands science and truth and democracy.

Not mutually exclusive, not matter what the MSM tell you.

 

[Revere]

I'm gonna guess that your post means that you understand neither the OP, nor the American people.


Sorry about that, Hugs.

I understand that atheism is the fastest growing view on religion. It is at about 18% up from 7% 20 years ago. We don't need a super god. We need an informed political public that understands science and truth and democracy.

Not mutually exclusive, not matter what the MSM tell you.

Sluggy tell us he has studied it for 55 years, but I know a 15 year old that says the same thing he just did.

 

[HUGGY]

I'm gonna guess that your post means that you understand neither the OP, nor the American people.


Sorry about that, Hugs.

I understand that atheism is the fastest growing view on religion. It is at about 18% up from 7% 20 years ago. We don't need a super god. We need an informed political public that understands science and truth and democracy.

That's YOUR god, then.

I have no imaginary invisible friends. I wouldn't be adverse to a god if one in fact exists but all of the evidense suggests that man made up "gods" because he could not explain the environment he lived in several thousand years ago. We as humans have learned the actual causes of the dangers to our species. There is nothing but ancient fantasies handed down over the last 30 centuries or so to suport the notion of gods and only 2 of the last centuries had print for most of the public to learn from. People WANT to believe in a god because they do not trust their own judgement and extrapolated to people in general the lack of trust is spread. I do not trust the current condition of human understanding either but I see slow progress towards a population that believes in itself as individuals and likewise towards its coinhabitants.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Religion and the Federal Government: PART 1 (Religion and the Founding of the American Republic, Library of Congress Exhibition)

 

[Revere]

I understand that atheism is the fastest growing view on religion. It is at about 18% up from 7% 20 years ago. We don't need a super god. We need an informed political public that understands science and truth and democracy.

That's YOUR god, then.

I have no imaginary invisible friends. I wouldn't be adverse to a god if one in fact exists but all of the evidense suggests that man made up "gods" because he could not explain the environment he lived in several thousand years ago. We as humans have learned the actual causes of the dangers to our species. There is nothing but ancient fantasies handed down over the last 30 centuries or so to suport the notion of gods and only 2 of the last centuries had print for most of the public to learn from. People WANT to believe in a god because they do not trust their own judgement and extrapolated to people in general the lack of trust is spread. I do not trust the current condition of human understanding either but I see slow progress towards a population that believes in itself as individuals and likewise towards its coinhabitants.

Neither what you regard as science nor truth nor democracy are any more or less intransigent than the rest what you regard as organized religion.

 

[HUGGY]

That's YOUR god, then.

I have no imaginary invisible friends. I wouldn't be adverse to a god if one in fact exists but all of the evidense suggests that man made up "gods" because he could not explain the environment he lived in several thousand years ago. We as humans have learned the actual causes of the dangers to our species. There is nothing but ancient fantasies handed down over the last 30 centuries or so to suport the notion of gods and only 2 of the last centuries had print for most of the public to learn from. People WANT to believe in a god because they do not trust their own judgement and extrapolated to people in general the lack of trust is spread. I do not trust the current condition of human understanding either but I see slow progress towards a population that believes in itself as individuals and likewise towards its coinhabitants.

Neither what you regard as science nor truth nor democracy are any more or less intransigent than the rest what you regard as organized religion.

I am "stubborn" when it concerns facts. Today's "truth" may not be tommorrows exact truth as we must make accomodation for learning and discovery. Democracy is also a work in progress. The world we live in is vastly different from the one that gave birth to our nation. The population was about 80-90 percent aggrarian then. Now a lot less than 10percent of Americans own a farm ..probably less than that and still shrinking. We still cling to long held American values that do not apply directly to todays life...although I think it is good that we hold some of the lessons learned and documents agreed to founding our pioneer spirit as a guide and a buffer against inhumanity caused when we are squeezed into high population centers.

We can do everything good religion can do looking truth in the eyes and acting without blaming or claiming divine sanction.

 

[Revere]

I have no imaginary invisible friends. I wouldn't be adverse to a god if one in fact exists but all of the evidense suggests that man made up "gods" because he could not explain the environment he lived in several thousand years ago. We as humans have learned the actual causes of the dangers to our species. There is nothing but ancient fantasies handed down over the last 30 centuries or so to suport the notion of gods and only 2 of the last centuries had print for most of the public to learn from. People WANT to believe in a god because they do not trust their own judgement and extrapolated to people in general the lack of trust is spread. I do not trust the current condition of human understanding either but I see slow progress towards a population that believes in itself as individuals and likewise towards its coinhabitants.

Neither what you regard as science nor truth nor democracy are any more or less intransigent than the rest what you regard as organized religion.

I am "stubborn" when it concerns facts. Today's "truth" may not be tommorrows exact truth as we must make accomodation for learning and discovery. Democracy is also a work in progress. The world we live in is vastly different from the one that gave birth to our nation. The population was about 80-90 percent aggrarian then. Now a lot less than 10percent of Americans own a farm ..probably less than that and still shrinking. We still cling to long held American values that do not apply directly to todays life...although I think it is good that we hold some of the lessons learned and documents agreed to founding our pioneer spirit as a guide and a buffer against inhumanity caused when we are squeezed into high population centers.

We can do everything good religion can do looking truth in the eyes and acting without blaming or claiming divine sanction.

That's better. What you call science or truth or democracy is not absolute and has shapeshifted as much or more as what you call religion when confronted with the fads of the day.

 

[Gadawg73]

Are these customs and social mores part of our "civil religion"?:
Buying slaves and castrating the men when they attempted to be free.
Having children with female slaves and then selling their own children.
Smuggling of drugs, alcohol and other commodities
Lynching of blacks
Denying blacks the right to vote
Denying women the right to vote
Denying blacks and women the right to sit on a jury
Do you want me to continue with hundreds more?
All done with the support of organized, or as you have coined "civil" religion.
Maybe you should start over Chic.
UNcivil religion is a better fit.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Are these customs and social mores part of our "civil religion"?:
Buying slaves and castrating the men when they attempted to be free.
Having children with female slaves and then selling their own children.
Smuggling of drugs, alcohol and other commodities
Lynching of blacks
Denying blacks the right to vote
Denying women the right to vote
Denying blacks and women the right to sit on a jury
Do you want me to continue with hundreds more?
All done with the support of organized, or as you have coined "civil" religion.
Maybe you should start over Chic.
UNcivil religion is a better fit.

Dullard, each day you find a new way to make sure that no one is able to wrest the 'mantle of stupidy' from your shoulders!


I do so respect consistency!