America’s Junk Weapons

Discussion in 'Military' started by longknife, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. Manonthestreet
    Offline

    Manonthestreet Platinum Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    19,294
    Thanks Received:
    6,799
    Trophy Points:
    430
    Ratings:
    +16,918
    Can you imagine what that could do with todays engine tech inside it
     
  2. Mushroom
    Offline

    Mushroom VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    658
    Thanks Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Near Baghdad By The Bay, California
    Ratings:
    +119
    Actually, they were cancelled because other technologies had largely made them obsolete.

    Once the Polaris SLBM missile was developed, weapons like the Valkyrie and Skybolt were pretty much obsolete. Both programs were started before the Polaris was put into service, and once it did they were no longer needed.

    And the thought that the B-70 could fly higher and faster than Soviet missiles was shown to be no longer accurate in 1960 when they shot down one of our U-2 spy planes. Then shot down another one in 1962.

    So yea, cancelling them was the right decision I think. Revolutionary at the time they were first proposed, already obsolete before they would have been put into real service.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Manonthestreet
    Offline

    Manonthestreet Platinum Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    19,294
    Thanks Received:
    6,799
    Trophy Points:
    430
    Ratings:
    +16,918
    except SR71 showed you could simply fly away from missiles with enough speed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Mushroom
    Offline

    Mushroom VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    658
    Thanks Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Near Baghdad By The Bay, California
    Ratings:
    +119
    B-70 speed: MACH 3
    SR-71 speed: MACH 3.3+

    B-70 service ceiling: 77,000 feet
    SR-71 service ceiling: 85,000+ feet

    And remember, the data for the SR-71 is still approximated. The actual data is still classified to this day.

    BTW, the missile that shot down the U-2s? The S-75 Davina (SA-2 GUIDELINE).

    S-75 speed: MACH 3.5
    S-75 service ceiling: 82,000 feet

    The B-70 could not fly high enough to avoid the GUIDELINE, the SR-71 could.

    And you can not "fly away" if the missile is launched in front of you. That is how they brought down the U-2. Surface to air missiles are not fired at an aircraft after or as it passes over, they are fired into their path in front of them.
     
  5. Manonthestreet
    Offline

    Manonthestreet Platinum Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    19,294
    Thanks Received:
    6,799
    Trophy Points:
    430
    Ratings:
    +16,918
    U2 is a pig compared to the other 2.......btw service ceiling was 77,000 pray tell why do we need a B1 or B2....even they would have to rely on standoff off weapons against major power
     
  6. Daryl Hunt
    Online

    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,141
    Thanks Received:
    293
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Ratings:
    +1,425
    The B-70 engine led to the GE-4 for the Boeing 2707 SST but it was cancelled in 1971. The GE-4 produced 50K of thrust. What grew out of that were the engines for the F-22. So, today's tech is already there.

    As for the B-70, it was a great demonstrator or test bird but little else. It's technology is still being used today and will be used in the future. It lead to the Boeing 2707 but the 2707 was cacelled for the same reasons. When you go past Mach 2.6, it takes some pretty good metallurgy to do that. And the world was just staring to figure out how to effectively work with titanium. The SR-71 could only do those high speeds at extreme altitudes where the air drag was almost nil. The B-70 and the 2707 would have been expected to do it as at least 10K lower altitudes where the leading edges would be hotter than hell. The cost of making an all titanium skinned aircraft was and still is too expensive. Otherwise, the Shuttle would have had Titanium shields instead of ceramic.

    They are playing around with Carbon Carbon fiber to replace titanium and it looks promising. We might see supersonic bombers and passenger liners yet.
     
  7. Daryl Hunt
    Online

    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,141
    Thanks Received:
    293
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Ratings:
    +1,425
    The B-1 has some stealth capabilities. And it costs a lot less than if you were to have made the B-70 the same years. The B-70 would have stood out like a sore thumb. Not only would they be suseptable to ground to air but they would have been suseptible to both types of intercepters that Russia had and still have in their inventory. There would be enough warning to get the Russian or USSR assets into flight to intercept them. The SR-71 is extremely stealthy, much faster and flies much higher. It gives little warning. By the time you know it's there, it's already leaving the area and you have little chance of intercepting it unless, by dumb stupid luck, you already have the Mig-25 or Mig-31 at the right altitude and at the right heading. The Sky is a might big place.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. longknife
    Offline

    longknife Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37,853
    Thanks Received:
    11,653
    Trophy Points:
    1,400
    Location:
    Sin City
    Ratings:
    +23,768
    [​IMG]

    North American XP-82 Twin Mustang 44-83887 on test flight over Sierras, 1945 The 1st American aircraft to get an air-t-air victory in Korea.
     
  9. Daryl Hunt
    Online

    Daryl Hunt Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,141
    Thanks Received:
    293
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Ratings:
    +1,425
    What was sad for the NKeans was before the Mig-15 made the scene, they had some real junk trying to fly an air war. The Double Trouble shot down a Yak-11 that was an early Soviet Trainer that the NKoreans were using as a fighter. It was based on the Yak-3 but it was heavier so it wasn't as fast or anything else. But it could put up with student hard landings.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Mushroom
    Offline

    Mushroom VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    658
    Thanks Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Near Baghdad By The Bay, California
    Ratings:
    +119
    Completely different flight profile and tactics.

    The B-70 was to have been a conventional Strategic Bomber of the era. Flying high and fast, relying upon speed and surprise in addition to navigation to avoid enemies.

    The B-1 was a penetration bomber. It was designed to fly high and fast, which is how it would make it's approach. Then it would change it's flight characteristics and profile, moving to a near ground altitude in an attempt to use terrain to avoid enemy positions at very low altitude.

    The B-2 of course uses stealth to perform much of the same role. It also is a penetration bomber.

    Trying to compare the B-70, B-1 and B-2 is like trying to compare the Ju-87, the G4M, and the SB2C. After all, all are "light bombers", so they all must be the same, right?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1

Share This Page