Americas Constitutions point towards Christianity

[THE LIGHT]

We all know that the Declaration of Independance refers to the existance of God along with its religious conotations throughout, but did you know that even many of the original Constitutional documents for the states had refferences to God and even some required one to be a Christian in order to hold office. Yep that's right, imagine that, a "secular" nation requiring you to be a Christian to hold office.

To name a few

Pennsylvania Constitution (1776)
Section 10:
"And each member [of the legislature], before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz: "I do believe in one God, the Creator and Governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and punisher of the wicked, and I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine Inspiration."

South Carolina Constitution (1778)
Article XXXVIII:
"That all persons and religious societies who acknowledge that there is one God, and a future state of rewards and punishments, and that God is publicly to be worshipped, shall be freely tolerated... That all denominations of Christian...shall enjoy equal religious and civil privileges."

Maryland Constitution (1776)
Article XXXV:
"That no other test or qualification ought to be required...than such oath of support and fidelity to this State...and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion."

Delaware Constitution (1776)
Article 22:
"Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust...shall...also make and subscribe the following declaration, to whit:
"I, _____, do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration"

Massachusetts Constitution (1776):
"All persons elected to office must make the following declaration: "I do declare that I believe the Christian religion, and have firm persuasion of its truth"

 

[wvulax]

I think these are unconstitutional state laws, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the DoI, was agnostic to the point of writing his own bible.

 

[JenT]

WOW I did not know that!

Times they are a changing.

I think what's sad is, our nation clearly was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and it's changed over the years. But our current generations don't know what it's like to live under tyranny, so we don't appreciate it as we should. And once we lose it and become something else, as a nation we'll appreciate it then, but I fear it will be too late.

 

[JenT]

I think these are unconstitutional state laws, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the DoI, was agnostic to the point of writing his own bible.

I just saw a special on Adams by Hallmark. They must have depicted Jefferson wrongly then.

He did have some good quotes though:

Here are just a few. Feel free to add more!

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big
enough to take away everything you have" -Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."-Thomas Jefferson

 

[THE LIGHT]

I think these are unconstitutional state laws, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the DoI, was agnostic to the point of writing his own bible.

These are not laws these are portions of the state constitutions. How can a constitution be unconstitutional?

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

If the point of the thread is to state by inference via the material provided, that we are a Christian Nation, that is not true. We are not a Christian Nation. We are a nation that has many Christians in it. There is a big difference between the two.

Many of our founding fathers had a belief in God, whatever that was for them. However, that does not change the fact that from a Constitution standpoint, we are not a Christian Nation.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

I think these are unconstitutional state laws, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the DoI, was agnostic to the point of writing his own bible.

These are not laws these are portions of the state constitutions. How can a constitution be unconstitutional?

I don't think you truly understand what you posted in the opening post. Articles within the respective state constitutions are law. Whether or not said laws are still on the books and enforced, is another matter.

 

[L.K.Eder]

"He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and third time, till at length it becomes habitual; he tells lies without attending to it, and truths without the world's believing him. This falsehood of tongue leads to that of the heart, and in time depraves all its good dispositions." ~ T. Jefferson (Letter to Peter Carr, 1785)

 

[JenT]

If the point of the thread is to state by inference via the material provided, that we are a Christian Nation, that is not true. We are not a Christian Nation. We are a nation that has many Christians in it. There is a big difference between the two.

Many of our founding fathers had a belief in God, whatever that was for them. However, that does not change the fact that from a Constitution standpoint, we are not a Christian Nation.

But we are a nation of faith. And somehow only an extremely small minority of atheists seems to be able to strip our government from acknowledging that.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

I think these are unconstitutional state laws, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the DoI, was agnostic to the point of writing his own bible.

1) These were written before the Constitution was written and ratified.

2) The First Amendment applies to the Congress, not the individual states.

So, to sum it up, there were official state religions amongst the individual states before and after the ratification of the Constitution of the United States. Such laws were not 'unconstitutional.'

 

[goldcatt]

I think these are unconstitutional state laws, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the DoI, was agnostic to the point of writing his own bible.

These are not laws these are portions of the state constitutions. How can a constitution be unconstitutional?

I don't think you truly understand what you posted in the opening post. Articles within the respective state constitutions are law. Whether or not said laws are still on the books and enforced, is another matter.

The Pennsylvania Constitution still contains the provision posted in #1. However, it is unenforceable as it is in direct conflict with the Federal constitution adopted later. The OP apparently has no concept of the basic principle of hierarchy of laws.

 

[THE LIGHT]

I think these are unconstitutional state laws, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the DoI, was agnostic to the point of writing his own bible.

These are not laws these are portions of the state constitutions. How can a constitution be unconstitutional?

I don't think you truly understand what you posted in the opening post. Articles within the respective state constitutions are law. Whether or not said laws are still on the books and enforced, is another matter.

But they are part of a Constitution. There are laws that are not part of the constitution. Again, how can a constitution be unconstitutional?

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

If the point of the thread is to state by inference via the material provided, that we are a Christian Nation, that is not true. We are not a Christian Nation. We are a nation that has many Christians in it. There is a big difference between the two.

Many of our founding fathers had a belief in God, whatever that was for them. However, that does not change the fact that from a Constitution standpoint, we are not a Christian Nation.

But we are a nation of faith. And somehow only an extremely small minority of atheists seems to be able to strip our government from acknowledging that.

We are a nation that has many faiths and believers. Some of the believers in this nation believe in Christ. Some believers believe in another god or higher power.

Do some people view some actions by the federal government as infringing the First Amendment? Yes, they do. I do not agree with them. Be that as it may, there are many believers who try and use the long arm of the federal government as a weapon of force, for their own religious belief and agenda. Both extremes are wrong.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Thomas Jefferson said the following:
​

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”[Letter to Benjamin Rush April 21, 1803] “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” [Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781]
​

He also said this:

“It [the Bible] is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." [Jan 9, 1816 Letter to Charles Thomson]
​

 

[goldcatt]

I think these are unconstitutional state laws, and Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the DoI, was agnostic to the point of writing his own bible.

1) These were written before the Constitution was written and ratified.

2) The First Amendment applies to the Congress, not the individual states.

So, to sum it up, there were official state religions amongst the individual states before and after the ratification of the Constitution of the United States. Such laws were not 'unconstitutional.'

Your #1 is correct. Your #2 is correct up to the point the 14th was ratified. State level limitations on the freedoms espoused in the First were one of the rasons for the breadth of the 14th beyond mere citizenship and equal protection of laws.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

These are not laws these are portions of the state constitutions. How can a constitution be unconstitutional?

I don't think you truly understand what you posted in the opening post. Articles within the respective state constitutions are law. Whether or not said laws are still on the books and enforced, is another matter.

But they are part of a Constitution. There are laws that are not part of the constitution. Again, how can a constitution be unconstitutional?

I think the poster that made the "unconstitutional" comment, was trying to make a feeble First Amendment argument. I noted in my post why that argument is not valid.

As I said, Articles within a constitution are law. To state that what you posted isn't actual law, is to not understand what you posted, in my opinion.

I am not sure what your core point of the thread is. What point are you trying to convey?

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

These are not laws these are portions of the state constitutions. How can a constitution be unconstitutional?

I don't think you truly understand what you posted in the opening post. Articles within the respective state constitutions are law. Whether or not said laws are still on the books and enforced, is another matter.

The Pennsylvania Constitution still contains the provision posted in #1. However, it is unenforceable as it is in direct conflict with the Federal constitution adopted later. The OP apparently has no concept of the basic principle of hierarchy of laws.

We are in agreement. Wow. That doesn't happen too often lately.

 

[goldcatt]

Thomas Jefferson said the following:
​

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”[Letter to Benjamin Rush April 21, 1803] “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” [Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781]
​

He also said this:

“It [the Bible] is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." [Jan 9, 1816 Letter to Charles Thomson]
​

You might find this interesting.
Jefferson Library: Exhibits | Jefferson Bible | Introduction

 

[goldcatt]

I don't think you truly understand what you posted in the opening post. Articles within the respective state constitutions are law. Whether or not said laws are still on the books and enforced, is another matter.

The Pennsylvania Constitution still contains the provision posted in #1. However, it is unenforceable as it is in direct conflict with the Federal constitution adopted later. The OP apparently has no concept of the basic principle of hierarchy of laws.

We are in agreement. Wow. That doesn't happen too often lately.

Just don't spread it around.

Kidding, kidding!

 

[THE LIGHT]

If the point of the thread is to state by inference via the material provided, that we are a Christian Nation, that is not true. We are not a Christian Nation. We are a nation that has many Christians in it. There is a big difference between the two.

Many of our founding fathers had a belief in God, whatever that was for them. However, that does not change the fact that from a Constitution standpoint, we are not a Christian Nation.

It was a form of Christian God. The reason for them to call for separation of church and state was to keep Christian denominations from descriminating against other denominations of Christians.