America's coming civil war -- makers vs. takers Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/op

[Vast LWC]

Ridiculous...you're an idiot. You don't get it. Demand creates jobs. That's the point he's trying to make. Keep dropping wages and benefits on people. Keep shipping jobs out of the country. Keep fucking over the people who CREATE DEMAND and thereby create wealth...and let's just see how deep this crazy rabbit hole of worshiping billionaires takes us.

Exactly.

Society is intertwined. If the equation becomes unbalanced, it collapses.

 

[flacaltenn]

I've been cruising message boards for a decade and NEVER have I run across such an elaborate misconception of markets, innovation, risk capital, and technology all in one place. Congrats. Let's blow this thing up...

Sooo, seeing that we have had it your way for a long ass time, when do we get to try something else?

BTW, great job at not answering the question.

Wealthy people create wealth and jobs in many different ways. Personal wealth allows people to invest in ideas they like, or just think will be profitable, or even just for fun... That creates jobs and wealth.

Another way wealthy people create more wealth and jobs is by buying things that interest them, like one of a kind custom boats, cars, planes, musical interments, houses and so on... Things that a company would never make, things a company could never afford to push their limits on because there would otherwise be no profit in doing so and the overhead would kill that project.

The greatest example of wealthy people helping the US and world is in Healthcare, where rich people in America are by definition the reason why all other countries on planet earth are not currently using HC "solutions" that of a third world country of today. Wealthy people can afford to buy HC products that later become affordable by the middle class and lastly Governments around the world, after our poor have access to them. The US still produces something like 40% of the worlds new medicines and that number used to be much higher, before we became a welfare state. Lucky for all the other countries in the world that creating almost all meaningful drugs and surgeries ever discovered is not placed on their shoulders, the cost that our wealthy pay for development would have bankrupted all of these countries overnight, meaning it would have never been discovered.

The US, through wealthy people allows industries to create prototypes, build dreams and in the process offer the chance for others to become wealthy. Almost everything you own was once completely unaffordable by you, do you ever wonder how you own a TV that once would have costed you 10 thousand dollars but now get it for 500$? Or a phone that can play games, has voice recognition, has a HD of 100gig and plays movies in 3D? Here is a guess, it was not created by people on welfare for other people on welfare.

Wealthy people do not "create jobs". Jobs become necessary to fill when people become interested in buying a product.

Nope.. A THOUSAND people can SAY "Gee it would be nice if I had a map in my car that guided me exactly to my destination". But only a HANDFUL will have the talent, conviction, and risk tolerance to DO anything about it. To START -- you determine tech feasibility, competition, costing, AND as another component "market acceptance". How many can I sell? That's just part of the initial due diligience. Face it Lefty, YOU DON'T KNOW what kind of cardiac lab equipment you need. YOU DON'T KNOW what kind of Christmas toy is gonna be the rage this year.

At that point, in order to make said product, a business requires all kinds of people to make it run. From the richest investor down to the janitors that clean the place at night.

You're jumping the gun here.. By a lot.. The first thing you have to do is find a champion to take the RISK of developing said product. NOBODY gets hired til the funding is in place. SOMEBODY has to beg and plead the case to Venture or Angel Capital or your Father in Law to get things rolling. Those would be those pesky evil INVESTORS you say have no bearing on the market.

Buyers of products "create" jobs, if anything.

THis USED to be the case when manufacturing required a lot a labor. Today, demand for a product just means more ships coming into LA from Asia and want ads in the ShenZhen Times.

And certainly the rich have no monopoly on being consumers. Every single individual, from the poorest to the richest is a consumer.

Investors are no more, or less, important to the health of a company than the people that work for that company.

Really? You got a janitor that can manage the 28 business units of Caterpillar and the 12 factories that they have worldwide employing 160,000 people? They make everything from shoes to giant 80 ton crawlers. You think Jane in reception is up to task of funding that? Want to have employees pay based on cash flow?

Without the investors -- there is no Caterpillar.

An investor could not "create" anything without demand, and a willing and talented workforce to make the product needed.

Correct -- you get that part. Make sure you understand -- there are gonna be far less jobs for the UNTALENTED in the future.

In order for that willing and talented workforce to exist, there needs to be a large pool of educated individuals. Therefore the general populace needs teachers.

Just teachers? Like all Ethnic Studies grads? No -- what education is required is DICTATED by the market. ((If you objective is to have your students prosper -- otherwise, any ole teacher will do)) The talent that THIS MARKET needs is lacking in the STEM (science, tech, engineering, and math) fields. Those are the areas that LEAD innovation and job recovery. Other jobs follow.

In addition, in order to transport materials efficiently, etc, there needs to be a viable infrastructure in place. Roads need to be there, railroads, airports, etc etc.

Public Safety is needed to protect the company's assets, as well as firemen, insurance brokers, etc, etc.

All of these things are paid for by the taxpayers. All the taxpayers.

Not all the taxpayers pay EQUALLY however. And as witnessed by the dozen cities and counties at the edge of bankruptcy right now --
Remove the folks who DO pay -- and all that public service isn't neccessary anymore.
Taxpayers also can't afford to pay for TWICE that amount of public service. One retired road worker for every working one. With folks retiring at 80% at age 55.. THUS the point of the OP...

And all of these jobs are performed by "regular Joe" middle class and poor workers.

Therefore, to call investors "the job creators" is absurd.

Nope.. Regular joes play a role. A supporting role. They go home at 5PM, never have to spend their weekends flying and spending hotel time (unpaid). THey don't manage thousands of people and direct Millions of dollars everyday. THey don't even have to understand the thingamabob that they put the whoodidoodle on.

They don't have to 2nd mortgage their house to build their dream product. They don't have to answer to the folks they borrowed MIILLLIONS from to get the product made. They don't have to anticipate changes in the competition, the market, the LAW, or worry about hurting anyone with their product. If regular Joe wants to EMPLOY PEOPLE --- they better under the process.. And hopefully understand it a whole lot better than you do...

 

[Avorysuds]

THE WTF IS YOUR POINT? The thread is talking about givers and takers in reference to taxes. The Rich pay a disproportion amount of taxes while the poor or welfare people pay close to no taxes, no taxes or actually through welfare manage to be a net loss.

I’m not here defending the rich, I’m here saying that whatever scary ass form of communism, socialism or wtf ever you seem to think would work better than a free people fucking retarded.

YOU HAVE GOTTEN YOUR WAY, do you understand that? We have MASSIVE welfare, we run MASSIVE deficits… Government might spend money on shit you don’t like but guess what, we told they would when you gave them the power the constitution clearly withheld from them for good reason.

Like I said, the conversation is stupid because you care only about Democrat VS Republican, Poor VS The Rich and Middle class VS The Rich.

Maybe you should look into starting a company, look at having 50 employees day one, nice offices and oh, the pay will be around 35 bucks an hour… People can have 7 months of paid vacation and whatever else you think is fair… and you don’t need no wealthy people to invest in you, remember consumers will just pay you, even when you don’t have a product because you have no money to develop one… or money to pay people…. Like that janitor…. Hey, I know, maybe you can pay the consumer money you don’t have to buy a product you can’t make… wait…. Wait…. THIS IS ALL WRONG!!!!

 

[georgephillip]

America's coming civil war -- makers vs. takers | Fox News

Those were Abe Lincoln’s words in his first inaugural in 1861, as America was running headlong into civil war. Now we’re a house divided again and another civil war is coming, with the 2012 election as its Gettysburg.

Call it America’s coming civil war between the Makers and the Takers.

On one side are those who create wealth, America’s private sector–the very ones targeted by President Obama’s tax hikes announced Monday.

On the other are the public employee unions; left-leaning intelligentsia who see the growth of government as index of progress; and the millions of Americans now dependent on government through a growing network of government transfer payments, from Medicaid and Social Security to college loans and corporate bailouts and handouts (think GM and Solyndra).

Over the past century America’s private sector has been the source of productivity, innovation, creativity, and growth–and gave us the iPhone and iPad. The public sector has been the engine of entitlement, stagnation, and decline -- and gave us Detroit and the South Bronx.

Read more: America's coming civil war -- makers vs. takers | Fox News

******************

I somehow think that the left believes there is legitimacy to the growing number of people on government programs.

Just like the third and fourth generation welfare folks I knew in CA who got together right after the checks showed up and celebrated with a bag of weed.

For the first twelve years of the 21st Century the takers, or wealth extractors, are concentrated on Wall Street, primarily among the richest 400 Americans and the politicians they buy and use like toilet paper:

"US banks' derivative bets of $230 trillion, concentrated in five banks, are 15.3 times larger than the US GDP.

"A failed political system that allows unregulated banks to place uncovered bets 15 times larger than the US economy is a system that is headed for catastrophic failure.

"As the word spreads of the fantastic lack of judgment in the American political and financial systems, the catastrophe in waiting will become a reality.

"Everyone wants a solution, so I will provide one..."

OpEdNews - Page 4 of Article: Collapse At Hand

BTW, the author who's providing this solution was formerly an editor for the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page and high-ranking official in Reagan's Treasury Department.

 

[Avorysuds]

Yes, he did.

He contributed the effort that allowed the corporation he worked for to hire me, or he contributed the capital to allow the farm to hire me.

The same way investors' capital would allow a corporation to hire me.

Therefore, he hired me, just the same as any investor hired me.

What in the world makes you think that capital investment is more important to a company than investment of time, skill and labor?

You're an idiot... Just, flat out, a fucking idiot.


No, you know what the real problem is, you’re a bigot AND an idiot. You hate white wealthy people so much that you lump all wealthy people in as White and wealthy, you can’t just say “yes, wealthy people create jobs.” You have to make up the most absurd reactionary bullshit this planet has ever seen to get around the simple fact that “Yes, wealthy people create jobs.” Not all wealthy people create jobs, but they do create them.

To ask a question “how do the wealthy create jobs.” Then claim that people buying shit creates jobs is about as fucking dumb as you can possibly get, you’re Truthmatters dumb. Supply does not magically appear for consumers you fucking fucked, fuck. The company is made, products are made and it all takes investing by people with wealth…. THEN consumers buy the products… At that point if the product evolves, guess what retard, wealthy people in the company invest in that products evolution and BAM, a new product… The fucking employee does not cough up his pay check to pay for research and development…

It’s so fucking retarded to have to explain this to you I can’t do it… It’s like you need this broken down to the step before baby talk.

Ridiculous...you're an idiot. You don't get it. Demand creates jobs. That's the point he's trying to make. Keep dropping wages and benefits on people. Keep shipping jobs out of the country. Keep fucking over the people who CREATE DEMAND and thereby create wealth...and let's just see how deep this crazy rabbit hole of worshiping billionaires takes us.

No...


Wealthy people create the jobs... The demand is what keeps the jobs in place.

 

[Avorysuds]

I can't take this anymore.... Have you guys even just thought about running a business, like opening one and what it would take?

 

[bobcollum]

I don't understand... Are you trying to make this nothing but a libturdz VS Republicraps thread so that you don't have to address the bigger issue that welfare in this country has made it impossible to balance a budget, even for states?

No, that was the job of the op, I merely made note of it.

I wouldn't argue that spending on all fronts is beyond reasonable.

Interesting... So how far in debt due to overspending does America need to go before it is beyond reasonable? We're around 1.6 trillion annual deficit currently, do you feel something needs to be cut yet, if so, what and how much would that knock off a deficit that is due to break 2 Trillion soon? Maybe you’re the kind of person that believes taxing the rich will pay for the deficit, care to give us some numbers, like the tax rate and how much revenue it will pull a year, then deduct that microscopic number from the growing deficit for us so none of us have to do it for you.

Not even half as interesting as you tried to make it seem. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Toro]

Wealth is created by innovation. Innovation lowers cost curves, which increases income, which increases the capacity for demand to increase. Aggregate wealth increases with demand but per capita income does not. Per capita income only grows through technological advancement. Technological advancement occurs because savings are invested to develop the product.

Sooo, seeing that we have had it your way for a long ass time, when do we get to try something else?

BTW, great job at not answering the question.


Wealthy people create wealth and jobs in many different ways. Personal wealth allows people to invest in ideas they like, or just think will be profitable, or even just for fun... That creates jobs and wealth.

Another way wealthy people create more wealth and jobs is by buying things that interest them, like one of a kind custom boats, cars, planes, musical interments, houses and so on... Things that a company would never make, things a company could never afford to push their limits on because there would otherwise be no profit in doing so and the overhead would kill that project.

The greatest example of wealthy people helping the US and world is in Healthcare, where rich people in America are by definition the reason why all other countries on planet earth are not currently using HC "solutions" that of a third world country of today. Wealthy people can afford to buy HC products that later become affordable by the middle class and lastly Governments around the world, after our poor have access to them. The US still produces something like 40% of the worlds new medicines and that number used to be much higher, before we became a welfare state. Lucky for all the other countries in the world that creating almost all meaningful drugs and surgeries ever discovered is not placed on their shoulders, the cost that our wealthy pay for development would have bankrupted all of these countries overnight, meaning it would have never been discovered.

The US, through wealthy people allows industries to create prototypes, build dreams and in the process offer the chance for others to become wealthy. Almost everything you own was once completely unaffordable by you, do you ever wonder how you own a TV that once would have costed you 10 thousand dollars but now get it for 500$? Or a phone that can play games, has voice recognition, has a HD of 100gig and plays movies in 3D? Here is a guess, it was not created by people on welfare for other people on welfare.

Wealthy people do not "create jobs". Jobs become necessary to fill when people become interested in buying a product.

At that point, in order to make said product, a business requires all kinds of people to make it run.

From the richest investor down to the janitors that clean the place at night.

Buyers of products "create" jobs, if anything.

And certainly the rich have no monopoly on being consumers. Every single individual, from the poorest to the richest is a consumer.

Investors are no more, or less, important to the health of a company than the people that work for that company.

An investor could not "create" anything without demand, and a willing and talented workforce to make the product needed.

In order for that willing and talented workforce to exist, there needs to be a large pool of educated individuals. Therefore the general populace needs teachers.

In addition, in order to transport materials efficiently, etc, there needs to be a viable infrastructure in place. Roads need to be there, railroads, airports, etc etc.

Public Safety is needed to protect the company's assets, as well as firemen, insurance brokers, etc, etc.

All of these things are paid for by the taxpayers. All the taxpayers.

And all of these jobs are performed by "regular Joe" middle class and poor workers.

Therefore, to call investors "the job creators" is absurd.

 

[Care4all]

You're an idiot... Just, flat out, a fucking idiot.


No, you know what the real problem is, you’re a bigot AND an idiot. You hate white wealthy people so much that you lump all wealthy people in as White and wealthy, you can’t just say “yes, wealthy people create jobs.” You have to make up the most absurd reactionary bullshit this planet has ever seen to get around the simple fact that “Yes, wealthy people create jobs.” Not all wealthy people create jobs, but they do create them.

To ask a question “how do the wealthy create jobs.” Then claim that people buying shit creates jobs is about as fucking dumb as you can possibly get, you’re Truthmatters dumb. Supply does not magically appear for consumers you fucking fucked, fuck. The company is made, products are made and it all takes investing by people with wealth…. THEN consumers buy the products… At that point if the product evolves, guess what retard, wealthy people in the company invest in that products evolution and BAM, a new product… The fucking employee does not cough up his pay check to pay for research and development…

It’s so fucking retarded to have to explain this to you I can’t do it… It’s like you need this broken down to the step before baby talk.

Ridiculous...you're an idiot. You don't get it. Demand creates jobs. That's the point he's trying to make. Keep dropping wages and benefits on people. Keep shipping jobs out of the country. Keep fucking over the people who CREATE DEMAND and thereby create wealth...and let's just see how deep this crazy rabbit hole of worshiping billionaires takes us.

No...


Wealthy people create the jobs... The demand is what keeps the jobs in place.

who are these wealthy people that created the 100 plus million jobs in the USA? most people work for SMALL businesses in this country.....never knew small businesses were ''the wealthy''?

Labor is more important than capital....labor CREATES WEALTH. the chicken comes first, not the golden egg.

 

[Avorysuds]

Wealth is created by innovation. Innovation lowers cost curves, which increases income, which increases the capacity for demand to increase. Aggregate wealth increases with demand but per capita income does not. Per capita income only grows through technological advancement. Technological advancement occurs because savings are invested to develop the product.

Sooo, seeing that we have had it your way for a long ass time, when do we get to try something else?

BTW, great job at not answering the question.


Wealthy people create wealth and jobs in many different ways. Personal wealth allows people to invest in ideas they like, or just think will be profitable, or even just for fun... That creates jobs and wealth.

Another way wealthy people create more wealth and jobs is by buying things that interest them, like one of a kind custom boats, cars, planes, musical interments, houses and so on... Things that a company would never make, things a company could never afford to push their limits on because there would otherwise be no profit in doing so and the overhead would kill that project.

The greatest example of wealthy people helping the US and world is in Healthcare, where rich people in America are by definition the reason why all other countries on planet earth are not currently using HC "solutions" that of a third world country of today. Wealthy people can afford to buy HC products that later become affordable by the middle class and lastly Governments around the world, after our poor have access to them. The US still produces something like 40% of the worlds new medicines and that number used to be much higher, before we became a welfare state. Lucky for all the other countries in the world that creating almost all meaningful drugs and surgeries ever discovered is not placed on their shoulders, the cost that our wealthy pay for development would have bankrupted all of these countries overnight, meaning it would have never been discovered.

The US, through wealthy people allows industries to create prototypes, build dreams and in the process offer the chance for others to become wealthy. Almost everything you own was once completely unaffordable by you, do you ever wonder how you own a TV that once would have costed you 10 thousand dollars but now get it for 500$? Or a phone that can play games, has voice recognition, has a HD of 100gig and plays movies in 3D? Here is a guess, it was not created by people on welfare for other people on welfare.

Wealthy people do not "create jobs". Jobs become necessary to fill when people become interested in buying a product.

At that point, in order to make said product, a business requires all kinds of people to make it run.

From the richest investor down to the janitors that clean the place at night.

Buyers of products "create" jobs, if anything.

And certainly the rich have no monopoly on being consumers. Every single individual, from the poorest to the richest is a consumer.

Investors are no more, or less, important to the health of a company than the people that work for that company.

An investor could not "create" anything without demand, and a willing and talented workforce to make the product needed.

In order for that willing and talented workforce to exist, there needs to be a large pool of educated individuals. Therefore the general populace needs teachers.

In addition, in order to transport materials efficiently, etc, there needs to be a viable infrastructure in place. Roads need to be there, railroads, airports, etc etc.

Public Safety is needed to protect the company's assets, as well as firemen, insurance brokers, etc, etc.

All of these things are paid for by the taxpayers. All the taxpayers.

And all of these jobs are performed by "regular Joe" middle class and poor workers.

Therefore, to call investors "the job creators" is absurd.

THANK YOU!
yay!

 

[LoneLaugher]

I can't take this anymore.... Have you guys even just thought about running a business, like opening one and what it would take?

Demand creates jobs. No demand, no jobs. No wealthy people. Period.

 

[Avorysuds]

Ridiculous...you're an idiot. You don't get it. Demand creates jobs. That's the point he's trying to make. Keep dropping wages and benefits on people. Keep shipping jobs out of the country. Keep fucking over the people who CREATE DEMAND and thereby create wealth...and let's just see how deep this crazy rabbit hole of worshiping billionaires takes us.

No...


Wealthy people create the jobs... The demand is what keeps the jobs in place.

who are these wealthy people that created the 100 plus million jobs in the USA? most people work for SMALL businesses in this country.....never knew small businesses were ''the wealthy''?

Labor is more important than capital....labor CREATES WEALTH. the chicken comes first, not the golden egg.

And more stupidity enters the thread... Yes, and all of these small businesses were created with an upfront investment of 35cents... None of them took a loan out, none of them had money, none of them borrowed in any way, they just though “I’d love to have my own Restaurant” and by golly it appeared for them.

 

[Avorysuds]

I can't take this anymore.... Have you guys even just thought about running a business, like opening one and what it would take?

Demand creates jobs. No demand, no jobs. No wealthy people. Period.

Wrong...

Holy fucking chit, lol.

You know what the problem here is, there seems to be a misunderstanding and misuse of the word "creates" going on. Demand never "created" a single job on planet earth. Sure, demand "created" the possibility for that job, if only the initial investment "created" the job(s) and right product were made to feed that demand.... See how that works?

 

[Oddball]

I can't take this anymore.... Have you guys even just thought about running a business, like opening one and what it would take?

Demand creates jobs. No demand, no jobs. No wealthy people. Period.

ORLY?

Who demanded the airplane, light bulb or even the Frisbee, before some enterprising people put their assets on the line and invented something?

 

[Care4all]

No...


Wealthy people create the jobs... The demand is what keeps the jobs in place.

who are these wealthy people that created the 100 plus million jobs in the USA? most people work for SMALL businesses in this country.....never knew small businesses were ''the wealthy''?

Labor is more important than capital....labor CREATES WEALTH. the chicken comes first, not the golden egg.

And more stupidity enters the thread... Yes, and all of these small businesses were created with an upfront investment of 35cents... None of them took a loan out, none of them had money, none of them borrowed in any way, they just though “I’d love to have my own Restaurant” and by golly it appeared for them.

labor creates wealth, wealth is capital. That man opening a small business labored for his capital....money doesn't just show up on trees, unless your paris hilton.... most people create wealth through their labor, through working....are you denying that?

labor creates wealth....i stand by that...

 

[Vast LWC]

I've been cruising message boards for a decade and NEVER have I run across such an elaborate misconception of markets, innovation, risk capital, and technology all in one place. Congrats. Let's blow this thing up...

Wealthy people do not "create jobs". Jobs become necessary to fill when people become interested in buying a product.

Nope.. A THOUSAND people can SAY "Gee it would be nice if I had a map in my car that guided me exactly to my destination". But only a HANDFUL will have the talent, conviction, and risk tolerance to DO anything about it. To START -- you determine tech feasibility, competition, costing, AND as another component "market acceptance". How many can I sell? That's just part of the initial due diligience. Face it Lefty, YOU DON'T KNOW what kind of cardiac lab equipment you need. YOU DON'T KNOW what kind of Christmas toy is gonna be the rage this year.

Neither does an investor. That's why corporations hire technicians, scientists, ad men, line workers, managers, salesmen, etc, etc, etc.

They ALL CONTRIBUTE TO THE WHOLE, allowing said corporation to make a profit, and thus continue to hire more of the same.

Do you think an investor can take a group of tribesmen from somewhere in the Congo and magically have them start building iPads in their grass huts?

All because an investor throws money at them?

Do you think the same tribesmen, who are worried about what they're going to eat the next day, are going to buy these magically created iPads?

You're jumping the gun here.. By a lot.. The first thing you have to do is find a champion to take the RISK of developing said product. NOBODY gets hired til the funding is in place. SOMEBODY has to beg and plead the case to Venture or Angel Capital or your Father in Law to get things rolling.

No, the first thing you have to do is have a demand for a product, and people that can afford to pay for said product.

This doesn't happen at all, unless you have workers that are being paid enough to not be living in grass huts.

Then you have a person with an idea for a product that meets said demand.

THEN you have some investors provide some capital, which allows for people to contribute their labor efforts in turn to create said product.

If the investors hadn't had labor contributing to their fortunes to begin with, then they never would have gotten the money to invest in the company in the first place.

It's a chicken and the egg proposition.

In other words, to create jobs, there is a communal effort between consumers, investors, management and labor.

This is the basis of the free market system.

THis USED to be the case when manufacturing required a lot a labor. Today, demand for a product just means more ships coming into LA from Asia and want ads in the ShenZhen Times.

Which will not be the case anymore, once Americans run out of capital to be consumers.

If there is no demand, then there are no jobs.

Really? You got a janitor that can manage the 28 business units of Caterpillar and the 12 factories that they have worldwide employing 160,000 people? They make everything from shoes to giant 80 ton crawlers. You think Jane in reception is up to task of funding that? Want to have employees pay based on cash flow?

Without the investors -- there is no Caterpillar.

Without Janitors, there is no Caterpillar. Or do you feel the investors are going to be cleaning shit up so people have room to work the next day, or clean up the conference rooms so meetings can be held?

Someone needs to disinfect those bathrooms, or the whole staff will get a disease, and then where will the investor's money go? Down the toilet, that's where. (pun intended)

Correct -- you get that part. Make sure you understand -- there are gonna be far less jobs for the UNTALENTED in the future.

Because there is less demand for products, due to the fact that there are less consumers with the ability to pay for products.

Just teachers? Like all Ethnic Studies grads? No -- what education is required is DICTATED by the market. ((If you objective is to have your students prosper -- otherwise, any ole teacher will do)) The talent that THIS MARKET needs is lacking in the STEM (science, tech, engineering, and math) fields. Those are the areas that LEAD innovation and job recovery. Other jobs follow.

While it is true that there is a demand for STEM field education, it is still education.

And, if there were no education in languages, reading, or communications, where would you find the people to do the paperwork associated with business? Or the advertising?

How would you communicate with your Asian subsidiaries?

In addition, in order to transport materials efficiently, etc, there needs to be a viable infrastructure in place. Roads need to be there, railroads, airports, etc etc.

Public Safety is needed to protect the company's assets, as well as firemen, insurance brokers, etc, etc.

All of these things are paid for by the taxpayers. All the taxpayers.

Not all the taxpayers EQUALLY however. And as witnessed by the dozen cities and counties at the edge of bankruptcy right now -- Taxpayers can't afford to pay for TWICE that amount of public service. One retired road worker for every working one. With folks retiring at 80% at age 55.. THUS the point of the OP...

And since the rich profit the most from said infrastructure, they should be the ones to pay the most for it.

The point of the OP was that the rich are the "makers" and the poor are the "takers", and there's going to be a civil war in this nation because of that.

A point which I have been addressing as being faulty in it's assumptions about who are "makers" and who are "takers".

And all of these jobs are performed by "regular Joe" middle class and poor workers.

Therefore, to call investors "the job creators" is absurd.

Nope.. Regular joes play a role. A supporting role. They go home at 5PM, never have to spend their weekends flying and spending hotel time (unpaid). THey don't manage thousands of people and direct Millions of dollars everyday. THey don't even have to understand the thingamabob that they put the whoodidoodle on.

They don't have to 2nd mortgage their house to build their dream product. They don't have to answer to the folks they borrowed MIILLLIONS from to get the product made. They don't have to anticipate changes in the competition, the market, the LAW, or worry about hurting anyone with their product. If regular Joe wants to EMPLOY PEOPLE --- they better under the process.. And hopefully understand it a whole lot better than you do...

The laborers have to "2nd mortgage their house" in order to buy cars to get to their jobs, and EAT, so they can provide the skilled labor that keeps the company going, as well as putting their kids through school so those kids can then contribute THEIR efforts to the companies that the investors put their money in.

And EVERYONE is playing a "supporting" role. Investors included.

If by this you are insinuating that the majority of the rich got that way by starting businesses based on their own ideas, that every rich person was some sort of Steve Jobs, then you would be unbelievably incorrect.

Of the rich, the percentage of people that are Steve Jobs are a fraction of a percent.

Are you insinuating that most rich investors work 18 hour days, and that poor folks never work overtime?

Because that would also be unbelievably false.

 

[Avorysuds]

For the record this idea of “demand creating jobs” before the job was ever created is pure bullshit.

For instance, was it demand that created the flat screen TV? Were there tens of millions of people demanding that we have flat screen TV’s? How about the Ipad… were people screaming in the streets for a shitter laptop that you have to later buy holders to hold it in place like even the lowest end laptop already does for you? The answer is no, yet look how many of them there are.

 

[Avorysuds]

I can't take this anymore.... Have you guys even just thought about running a business, like opening one and what it would take?

Demand creates jobs. No demand, no jobs. No wealthy people. Period.

ORLY?

Who demanded the airplane, light bulb or even the Frisbee, before some enterprising people put their assets on the line and invented something?

Yes. Before Airplanes where was the demand? I mean, LoneLaugher clearly stated without demand there is no jobs or wealthy people, period! Yet the jobs and product was created before people (here it comes) knew how they could benefit and wanted that product.

 

[flacaltenn]

Wealth is created by innovation. Innovation lowers cost curves, which increases income, which increases the capacity for demand to increase. Aggregate wealth increases with demand but per capita income does not. Per capita income only grows through technological advancement. Technological advancement occurs because savings are invested to develop the product.

Sooo, seeing that we have had it your way for a long ass time, when do we get to try something else?

BTW, great job at not answering the question.


Wealthy people create wealth and jobs in many different ways. Personal wealth allows people to invest in ideas they like, or just think will be profitable, or even just for fun... That creates jobs and wealth.

Another way wealthy people create more wealth and jobs is by buying things that interest them, like one of a kind custom boats, cars, planes, musical interments, houses and so on... Things that a company would never make, things a company could never afford to push their limits on because there would otherwise be no profit in doing so and the overhead would kill that project.

The greatest example of wealthy people helping the US and world is in Healthcare, where rich people in America are by definition the reason why all other countries on planet earth are not currently using HC "solutions" that of a third world country of today. Wealthy people can afford to buy HC products that later become affordable by the middle class and lastly Governments around the world, after our poor have access to them. The US still produces something like 40% of the worlds new medicines and that number used to be much higher, before we became a welfare state. Lucky for all the other countries in the world that creating almost all meaningful drugs and surgeries ever discovered is not placed on their shoulders, the cost that our wealthy pay for development would have bankrupted all of these countries overnight, meaning it would have never been discovered.

The US, through wealthy people allows industries to create prototypes, build dreams and in the process offer the chance for others to become wealthy. Almost everything you own was once completely unaffordable by you, do you ever wonder how you own a TV that once would have costed you 10 thousand dollars but now get it for 500$? Or a phone that can play games, has voice recognition, has a HD of 100gig and plays movies in 3D? Here is a guess, it was not created by people on welfare for other people on welfare.

Wealthy people do not "create jobs". Jobs become necessary to fill when people become interested in buying a product.

At that point, in order to make said product, a business requires all kinds of people to make it run.

From the richest investor down to the janitors that clean the place at night.

Buyers of products "create" jobs, if anything.

And certainly the rich have no monopoly on being consumers. Every single individual, from the poorest to the richest is a consumer.

Investors are no more, or less, important to the health of a company than the people that work for that company.

An investor could not "create" anything without demand, and a willing and talented workforce to make the product needed.

In order for that willing and talented workforce to exist, there needs to be a large pool of educated individuals. Therefore the general populace needs teachers.

In addition, in order to transport materials efficiently, etc, there needs to be a viable infrastructure in place. Roads need to be there, railroads, airports, etc etc.

Public Safety is needed to protect the company's assets, as well as firemen, insurance brokers, etc, etc.

All of these things are paid for by the taxpayers. All the taxpayers.

And all of these jobs are performed by "regular Joe" middle class and poor workers.

Therefore, to call investors "the job creators" is absurd.

Bless you for caring.. It's so frustrating dealing with the whackadoodles who want to condemn the system before they understand how it works.

 

[Vast LWC]

Wealth is created by innovation. Innovation lowers cost curves, which increases income, which increases the capacity for demand to increase. Aggregate wealth increases with demand but per capita income does not. Per capita income only grows through technological advancement. Technological advancement occurs because savings are invested to develop the product.

But innovation wouldn't exist without education.

Education wouldn't exist without an existing infrastructure.

Said infrastructure wouldn't exist without technological advancement.

and technological advancement wouldn't exist if there was no demand.

It's all inter-related. If you take out one link of the chain, the whole thing falls apart.

So, in other words, jobs, and wealth are created by EVERYONE providing a contribution.

Investors are not more important than innovators, and innovators are not more important than consumers, since there would be point to being an innovator if no-one gave a crap about your innovation.

Thus, every cog in the wheel helps create jobs, just like every cog in the wheel helps create demand.

And thus, one cannot say that "the rich are the job creators", because it's simply not true.