Americans still not interested in electric cars!

[WinterBorn]

Lol.....whatever you say s0n!!

But I navigate in the real world being the old dart that I am.

Large car sales for last quarter of 2017 >>

US car sales data large car segment - Left-Lane.com

Yuk....yuk....almost as many large cars are sold in 1 quarter as all EV sales COMBINED for a year!! Ford alone sells 100k F150 trucks/month.

Sure looks like the old dart 50's guy is winning!!

( assuming people understand a bell curve )

You dodged the questions.

Here they are again...

'You typed...'Nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles.'

Answer us this brainiac...how can 400,000 Americans put down a deposit for a Tesla 3 when 'nobody wants' EV's?

Well....?


And show us all link to unbiased, factual proof that 'Americans love big cars always have and always will'?



And where exactly did I say that EV's even came close to non-EV's in sales?

LOL...you keep answering statements that I never made.

Well s0n.... I can't help you if you don't have the ability to think on the margin. I presented the sales figures.... most people can think on the margin and understand fully what 150,000 total sales means relative to the millions of sales of conventional vehicles. Duh....

It means, quite simply, nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles....the 2 door Specks!!

Americans have been in love with their big vehicles for 75 years!!

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-A...er-than-small-ones-which-cause-less-pollution

Notice how they completely ignore my databased post #37?

Yep, we did ignore them. Because they are meaningless. Ford Motor Company has been in business for 115 years. Tesla has been in business for 10. And your "databased post" shows that Tesla does not sell nearly as many cars as Ford. Well Duh! So how many MONTHS does a new car company have before they are expected to equal their century old competition or be seen as a failure?

Sure there is difference in how long they exist as a company, but since 2012 Ford F series alone outsells ALL EV's combined. EV's doesn't even keep up with a segment of the car sales industry.

Normally I would have no objection to seeing EV's being made and sold anywhere, it is the over the top subsidy/Tax money give away to "renewable companies" which most fail anyway, and the absurd idea that they will somehow prevent a run away warming from happening, or something along those lines.

EV"s actually INCREASE power consumption, which then increase use of power production mostly from Coal, Oil and Gas.

And you don't think the 100 years of car sales has ANY effect on the number of vehicles sold now? Really?

And what does the most expensive Ford truck sell for? $75k? Half the cost of an ordinary Tesla Model S?

 

[fncceo]

Not even close ...

 

[Rambunctious]

Electric cars are not eco friendly...buying a gas or diesel car or truck and maintaining it so you don't have to replace it every four years is eco friendly... we used to buy a car for life not for just a few years until the new model comes out...

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Amricans will buy electric cars when the charge time is the same as filling up a tank of gas instead of 6-8 hours.

That's pretty much it right there. Right now, they just aren't economically feasible for the average American

 

[Sunsettommy]

Mc Rocket writes:

"There are no full size, pickup truck, EV's. So beating to death F-150 sales compared to EV cars is meaningless. You have no idea how sales of F-150's would be if there were reasonably-priced, full-sized P/U's with 200+ mile ranges."

You have a point here

"And the reason EV sales are so low is because there are NO low-priced (under $30,000 before government incentive) EV's with decent ranges. NONE. Plus, everyone that sells EV's, has to do so at a loss. Tesla has NEVER posted a yearly profit in 13 years - and that is despite selling VERY expensive EV's. And GM apparently loses $9,000 per Bolt it sells."

They will ALWAYS lose money for a reason you have yet to acknowledge, they are out the price range for most people to start with, limited tolerance to cold/hot weather with a long charging time.

"The problem is that Lithium Ion batteries are simply too expensive to manufacture for vehicles. A new type of battery needs to be developed."

The Achilles heel, the one that will be a long standing problem having expensive highly toxic components to deal with from building them to the day they fail. They will damage the environment too.They have been working on batteries for over a century now, when are they going to find the "holy grail"?

"But the fact that almost 400,000 people were willing to plunk down a grand deposit for a $35,000 Tesla (before they even sat in one) shows loud and clear that the market for EV's is there.
It's just that the cars are not yet cheap enough."

Just because a given number of people wanting them doesn't mean it is a wise choice. Some people buy stuff because it is there to buy, others buy because it is something new to brag about and of course others who want to be in a car hardly anyone else can afford.

It will never catch on beyond a small market since it has some serious drawbacks you keep ignoring, it is a terrible choice for parts of the country that will empty the battery very fast. It is worthless for camping/boating, hunting and can't be used far off the road either where there are no source of power.

"If 200+ mile EV's can be manufactured at a profit for under $25,000...EV sales will explode."

So where is it?, the ability to make such a car already exist, so why haven't they made them?

"Think about it? Would you rather buy a Chevy Cruze or a Chevy Bolt for $25K (assuming they are equally equipped)? Unless you are an idiot, drive strictly on the highway or plan to keep the car for 8+ years...you will choose the Bolt as it will cost a LOT less for maintenance/operating costs for the first 5-6 years of driving."

I wouldn't buy either piece of trash since they don't do what I want in a vehicle.

 

[McRocket]

"If 200+ mile EV's can be manufactured at a profit for under $25,000...EV sales will explode."

So where is it?, the ability to make such a car already exist, so why haven't they made them?

There are no EV's sold in America for under $25K (before Government incentives). Where is this ability to make this car that you are speaking of?

If Chevy is losing $9K per Bolt...then clearly the ability has not yet arrived.

"Think about it? Would you rather buy a Chevy Cruze or a Chevy Bolt for $25K (assuming they are equally equipped)? Unless you are an idiot, drive strictly on the highway or plan to keep the car for 8+ years...you will choose the Bolt as it will cost a LOT less for maintenance/operating costs for the first 5-6 years of driving."

I wouldn't buy either piece of trash since they don't do what I want in a vehicle.

The point was if you had to choose between the two.


My overall point is that the OP was saying that Americans do not want EV's...and never will.

And I say that is nonsense.

But until 200+ range, reasonably priced EV's can be manufactured at a profit, people are not going to buy EV's in great volumes.

A new battery technology is required.

Will it ever be? The first Lithium Ion battery was not manufactured until 1992. So no reason that new battery technology is not available to make mass EV usage doable.

 

[Sunsettommy]

You dodged the questions.

Here they are again...

'You typed...'Nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles.'

Answer us this brainiac...how can 400,000 Americans put down a deposit for a Tesla 3 when 'nobody wants' EV's?

Well....?


And show us all link to unbiased, factual proof that 'Americans love big cars always have and always will'?



And where exactly did I say that EV's even came close to non-EV's in sales?

LOL...you keep answering statements that I never made.

Well s0n.... I can't help you if you don't have the ability to think on the margin. I presented the sales figures.... most people can think on the margin and understand fully what 150,000 total sales means relative to the millions of sales of conventional vehicles. Duh....

It means, quite simply, nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles....the 2 door Specks!!

Americans have been in love with their big vehicles for 75 years!!

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-A...er-than-small-ones-which-cause-less-pollution

Notice how they completely ignore my databased post #37?

Yep, we did ignore them. Because they are meaningless. Ford Motor Company has been in business for 115 years. Tesla has been in business for 10. And your "databased post" shows that Tesla does not sell nearly as many cars as Ford. Well Duh! So how many MONTHS does a new car company have before they are expected to equal their century old competition or be seen as a failure?

Sure there is difference in how long they exist as a company, but since 2012 Ford F series alone outsells ALL EV's combined. EV's doesn't even keep up with a segment of the car sales industry.

Normally I would have no objection to seeing EV's being made and sold anywhere, it is the over the top subsidy/Tax money give away to "renewable companies" which most fail anyway, and the absurd idea that they will somehow prevent a run away warming from happening, or something along those lines.

EV"s actually INCREASE power consumption, which then increase use of power production mostly from Coal, Oil and Gas.

And you don't think the 100 years of car sales has ANY effect on the number of vehicles sold now? Really?

And what does the most expensive Ford truck sell for? $75k? Half the cost of an ordinary Tesla Model S?

Ford F Series began in 1948, which is 70 years, the F-150 series began in 1975, which is only 43 years ago.

Standard 2017 Ford F-150 cost around $28,000, F-250 around $34,000

You are losing it, being so far off on your weak defense of an idea that will never dominate the market. It has built in limitations that Gasoline cars easily handle.

 

[Sunsettommy]

"If 200+ mile EV's can be manufactured at a profit for under $25,000...EV sales will explode."

So where is it?, the ability to make such a car already exist, so why haven't they made them?

There are no EV's sold in America for under $25K (before Government incentives). Where is this ability to make this car that you are speaking of?

If Chevy is losing $9K per Bolt...then clearly the ability has not yet arrived.

"Think about it? Would you rather buy a Chevy Cruze or a Chevy Bolt for $25K (assuming they are equally equipped)? Unless you are an idiot, drive strictly on the highway or plan to keep the car for 8+ years...you will choose the Bolt as it will cost a LOT less for maintenance/operating costs for the first 5-6 years of driving."

I wouldn't buy either piece of trash since they don't do what I want in a vehicle.

The point was if you had to choose between the two.


My overall point is that there is DEFINITELY a desire for EV's...it's just that the battery technology has not arrived yet.

Will they ever? I assume so...but I don't know.

You should understand that I have no intention of preventing EV's from being sold, it is the idea that having them is good for the environment or prevent climate change or other bogus arguments.

They have long shown their value in many areas already from electric Forklifts (which I have driven) to electric hydraulics (which I have operated). They work well as long as they fit in with what they are designed for. Cars not as well because of the sheer distance, loading requirement and weather impacts will always limit them.

 

[fncceo]

I will never willingly drive an electric car.

 

[skookerasbil]

LOL...Hello!?!

You typed...'Nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles.'

Answer us this brainiac...how can 400,000 Americans put down a deposit for a Tesla 3 when 'nobody wants' EV's?

Well....?


And after you don't answer that one...show us all the proof you have that 'Americans love big cars always have and always will'?


You sound like some ignorant, old fart who longs for the 1950's.

Lol.....whatever you say s0n!!

But I navigate in the real world being the old dart that I am.

Large car sales for last quarter of 2017 >>

US car sales data large car segment - Left-Lane.com

Yuk....yuk....almost as many large cars are sold in 1 quarter as all EV sales COMBINED for a year!! Ford alone sells 100k F150 trucks/month.

Sure looks like the old dart 50's guy is winning!!

( assuming people understand a bell curve )

You dodged the questions.

Here they are again...

'You typed...'Nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles.'

Answer us this brainiac...how can 400,000 Americans put down a deposit for a Tesla 3 when 'nobody wants' EV's?

Well....?


And show us all link to unbiased, factual proof that 'Americans love big cars always have and always will'?



And where exactly did I say that EV's even came close to non-EV's in sales?

LOL...you keep answering statements that I never made.

As usual the poorly educated self defined conservatives use lies, damn lies and statistics to convince them self of their narrative biases.

Left out of Kook's response, and a lie by omission, is the number of F-150's built by Ford, and the number of all electric cars available in the market. And the number of F-150's which are not used as commuter vehicles, but for commercial and recreational use.

It is an example of Kook's Apple and Antelope comparison, as if they are similar and not very much different. Some people call that from of logic, magical thinking.

Fake?

I just popped up the sales figures for the Ford Focus from 2017. Just the Ford Focus.......... more sold than all EV sales combined.

Combined s0n

Magical indeed!

Of course Ford is selling more vehicles, you dolt. Tesla has only existed for 10 years. Ford? A bit more.

Yes, I know. You want a Raptor and a Mustang. I am sure everyone will think you are a real man when you drive by. But then, if you pick what vehicle you buy by whether you think it impresses other people..... well, I can't help you.

That you call a car that goes 0-60 in just over 2 second "faggy" is laughable. That this same car can seat 5 adults and is a luxury car is more proof.

Grow up, kid. Yeah, you don't like the Tesla? Cool. Cheering the failure of an American company? Not cool. Trying to ridicule those who buy a cutting edge technology car because it might hurt car shows? Ridiculous.

Hey what can I say. ...im not the dreamer type. I call it as I see it.... invariably. Five years ago, all the climate Crusaders were telling us that by now
EV's would be very popular. Well, they're not..... well except maybe in the mind of a progressive. But for most people they yield a huge yawn. Again, the modern progressive just simply misunderstands American culture. They love their cars....EV's just don't cut it. Doesn't help that all of them look goofy or plain.

My Mustang is my DD. Not stock. . When I pass any kid age 5 - 18, they only have to hear my car and their neck snaps around....then the Ewww's and Ahhhh's. Only a progressive thinks the same thing happens when a Prius does a drive by! They are just not regular guys..... you know the wishy washy type. The progressive is desperate to change the entire culture.... this is one area where they stand on the side of the road with their thumb up their ass.

 

[McRocket]

"If 200+ mile EV's can be manufactured at a profit for under $25,000...EV sales will explode."

So where is it?, the ability to make such a car already exist, so why haven't they made them?

There are no EV's sold in America for under $25K (before Government incentives). Where is this ability to make this car that you are speaking of?

If Chevy is losing $9K per Bolt...then clearly the ability has not yet arrived.

"Think about it? Would you rather buy a Chevy Cruze or a Chevy Bolt for $25K (assuming they are equally equipped)? Unless you are an idiot, drive strictly on the highway or plan to keep the car for 8+ years...you will choose the Bolt as it will cost a LOT less for maintenance/operating costs for the first 5-6 years of driving."

I wouldn't buy either piece of trash since they don't do what I want in a vehicle.

The point was if you had to choose between the two.


My overall point is that there is DEFINITELY a desire for EV's...it's just that the battery technology has not arrived yet.

Will they ever? I assume so...but I don't know.

You should understand that I have no intention of preventing EV's from being sold, it is the idea that having them is good for the environment or prevent climate change or other bogus arguments.

They have long shown their value in many areas already from electric Forklifts (which I have driven) to electric hydraulics (which I have operated). They work well as long as they fit in with what they are designed for. Cars not as well because of the sheer distance, loading requirement and weather impacts will always limit them.

I have not heard of any large problems with EV's in relation to outside temperature (other then A/C taking up lots of juice).

And it is a fact that Lithium Ion batteries prefer cold to warm temperatures.

How does cold weather affect lithium batteries? | Lithium Pros

Do you have a link from an unbiased source that shows that EV's greatly deteriorate in variable climates?

 

[Sunsettommy]

"If 200+ mile EV's can be manufactured at a profit for under $25,000...EV sales will explode."

So where is it?, the ability to make such a car already exist, so why haven't they made them?

There are no EV's sold in America for under $25K (before Government incentives). Where is this ability to make this car that you are speaking of?

If Chevy is losing $9K per Bolt...then clearly the ability has not yet arrived.

"Think about it? Would you rather buy a Chevy Cruze or a Chevy Bolt for $25K (assuming they are equally equipped)? Unless you are an idiot, drive strictly on the highway or plan to keep the car for 8+ years...you will choose the Bolt as it will cost a LOT less for maintenance/operating costs for the first 5-6 years of driving."

I wouldn't buy either piece of trash since they don't do what I want in a vehicle.

The point was if you had to choose between the two.


My overall point is that there is DEFINITELY a desire for EV's...it's just that the battery technology has not arrived yet.

Will they ever? I assume so...but I don't know.

You should understand that I have no intention of preventing EV's from being sold, it is the idea that having them is good for the environment or prevent climate change or other bogus arguments.

They have long shown their value in many areas already from electric Forklifts (which I have driven) to electric hydraulics (which I have operated). They work well as long as they fit in with what they are designed for. Cars not as well because of the sheer distance, loading requirement and weather impacts will always limit them.

I have not heard of any large problems with EV's in relation to outside temperature (other then A/C taking up lots of juice).

And it is a fact that Lithium Ion batteries prefer cold to warm temperatures.

How does cold weather affect lithium batteries? | Lithium Pros

Do you have a link from an unbiased source that shows that EV's greatly deteriorate in variable climates?

BU-502: Discharging at High and Low Temperatures
From your own link you didn't read:

"ALL batteries will perform poorly in cold weather, regardless of whether they are lithium or lead-acid. In fact, a lithium battery will still outperform a comparably-sized lead-acid when the temperature drops."

Ooops.

 

[skookerasbil]

Duh

All batteries perform shity in the cold.

Duh

How many stories have we seen in recent years about Tesla's driving 5 minutes in the cold and dying.

 

[Nosmo King]

Electric cars are failing to woo the average American

Now if you talk to a climate crusader, you'd think EV's are flying out the showroom door. Nope.... Americans couldn't be any more disinterested in buying these things. Only people making more than 100k are buying them and sale #s remain laughable. FORD still sells more F150 trucks in 3 months than all EV sales COMBINED.

What does it mean?

It means people are concerned about climate change, but have no interest in opening up their wallet to do anything about it. Clearly the science all the climate crusader bozo' s angst about is not having any effect on people in the real world. Tough shit on them.

It's not a false regard to the environment, it's practical driving. If the range of a fully charged battery was the same as a full tank of gas, I would predict sales would jump. If charging was as easy as filling up your tank, again I would foresee a sales spike. If the cost of the car or SUV or light pickup truck was comparable, no doubt there would be bigger sales. If, one day soon, all these factors develop at once, a gas station would be as common as a blacksmith.

 

[McRocket]

"If 200+ mile EV's can be manufactured at a profit for under $25,000...EV sales will explode."

So where is it?, the ability to make such a car already exist, so why haven't they made them?

There are no EV's sold in America for under $25K (before Government incentives). Where is this ability to make this car that you are speaking of?

If Chevy is losing $9K per Bolt...then clearly the ability has not yet arrived.

"Think about it? Would you rather buy a Chevy Cruze or a Chevy Bolt for $25K (assuming they are equally equipped)? Unless you are an idiot, drive strictly on the highway or plan to keep the car for 8+ years...you will choose the Bolt as it will cost a LOT less for maintenance/operating costs for the first 5-6 years of driving."

I wouldn't buy either piece of trash since they don't do what I want in a vehicle.

The point was if you had to choose between the two.


My overall point is that there is DEFINITELY a desire for EV's...it's just that the battery technology has not arrived yet.

Will they ever? I assume so...but I don't know.

You should understand that I have no intention of preventing EV's from being sold, it is the idea that having them is good for the environment or prevent climate change or other bogus arguments.

They have long shown their value in many areas already from electric Forklifts (which I have driven) to electric hydraulics (which I have operated). They work well as long as they fit in with what they are designed for. Cars not as well because of the sheer distance, loading requirement and weather impacts will always limit them.

I have not heard of any large problems with EV's in relation to outside temperature (other then A/C taking up lots of juice).

And it is a fact that Lithium Ion batteries prefer cold to warm temperatures.

How does cold weather affect lithium batteries? | Lithium Pros

Do you have a link from an unbiased source that shows that EV's greatly deteriorate in variable climates?

BU-502: Discharging at High and Low Temperatures
From your own link you didn't read:

"ALL batteries will perform poorly in cold weather, regardless of whether they are lithium or lead-acid. In fact, a lithium battery will still outperform a comparably-sized lead-acid when the temperature drops."

Ooops.

Do Electric Cars Work in Cold Weather? Get the Facts...

From what I can see...EV's drop about 20-30% in below freezing weather. Not that big of a deal. Most people only drive about 35-40 miles per day on average. So if their 200 mile EV only gets 150 in the cold...no big deal.
Plus, if the battery is kept warm before starting (EV's are usually plugged in overnight), that would improve.

Besides, most Americans spend far less than 50% of the time in freezing weather.

I appreciate your point (and your link). But I just don't think it is a big deal.

A FAR bigger problem to me is finding a cheaper EV battery to manufacture than Li-Ion's.

 

[WinterBorn]

Not even close ...

Close to what?

Should that be the ONLY kind of car sold? Families trying to squeeze in? No hauling anything anywhere. And no choices?

 

[fncceo]

Not even close ...

Close to what?

Should that be the ONLY kind of car sold? Families trying to squeeze in? No hauling anything anywhere. And no choices?

Yes, no choices. Happy?

 

[fncceo]

I might be open to some sort of larger vehicle for hauling loads if you can demonstrate need.

 

[skookerasbil]

I might be open to some sort of larger vehicle for hauling loads if you can demonstrate need.

Dude you got to stop in here more often. Lmao..... these progressives like Winterborn..... there's more humor in a small soap dish. All these anti tradition people.... you go years in here seeing their posts and not have one laugh. Oy

Oh and dollar to 1000 stale donuts Winterbourne doesn't even know what that car is that you posted the pic of. None of these people are car guys.... people like this are far more content floating around in a row boat.

 

[WinterBorn]

Well s0n.... I can't help you if you don't have the ability to think on the margin. I presented the sales figures.... most people can think on the margin and understand fully what 150,000 total sales means relative to the millions of sales of conventional vehicles. Duh....

It means, quite simply, nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles....the 2 door Specks!!

Americans have been in love with their big vehicles for 75 years!!

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-A...er-than-small-ones-which-cause-less-pollution

Notice how they completely ignore my databased post #37?

Yep, we did ignore them. Because they are meaningless. Ford Motor Company has been in business for 115 years. Tesla has been in business for 10. And your "databased post" shows that Tesla does not sell nearly as many cars as Ford. Well Duh! So how many MONTHS does a new car company have before they are expected to equal their century old competition or be seen as a failure?

Sure there is difference in how long they exist as a company, but since 2012 Ford F series alone outsells ALL EV's combined. EV's doesn't even keep up with a segment of the car sales industry.

Normally I would have no objection to seeing EV's being made and sold anywhere, it is the over the top subsidy/Tax money give away to "renewable companies" which most fail anyway, and the absurd idea that they will somehow prevent a run away warming from happening, or something along those lines.

EV"s actually INCREASE power consumption, which then increase use of power production mostly from Coal, Oil and Gas.

And you don't think the 100 years of car sales has ANY effect on the number of vehicles sold now? Really?

And what does the most expensive Ford truck sell for? $75k? Half the cost of an ordinary Tesla Model S?

Ford F Series began in 1948, which is 70 years, the F-150 series began in 1975, which is only 43 years ago.

Standard 2017 Ford F-150 cost around $28,000, F-250 around $34,000

You are losing it, being so far off on your weak defense of an idea that will never dominate the market. It has built in limitations that Gasoline cars easily handle.

I was referring to Ford Motor Co. As for the F series beginning in 1948, do you not think that the Ford name helped sell those trucks? Do you not think the F100 trucks helped sell the F150s in 1948?

And if you notice, I was asking what the most expensive F Series truck. $28k and $34k are far from the most expensive models and trims (actually, according to the Ford website, the only F150 that sells for under $30 is the regular cab XL 2WD). Yes, a standard F-150 starts around $30. But a Ford F-150 Limited starts at $60k, and goes up as you add options.

But that aside, since you were actually proving my point, the less expensive cars will always have greater sales numbers. In almost every society, more people can afford a $28k Ford than can afford a $130k Tesla. But then, more people can afford a Ford F-150 XL starting at $34k than can afford an F-150 Limited starting at $60k. So the price has an effect on the volume of sales.


Your entire idea that comparing a new car company with a 115 year old car company, strictly on units sold, is ridiculous. If you want more proof, when was the last completely new car company that started up?