Americans still not interested in electric cars!

Lol.....whatever you say s0n!!

But I navigate in the real world being the old dart that I am.

Large car sales for last quarter of 2017 >>

US car sales data large car segment - Left-Lane.com

Yuk....yuk....almost as many large cars are sold in 1 quarter as all EV sales COMBINED for a year!! Ford alone sells 100k F150 trucks/month.

Sure looks like the old dart 50's guy is winning!!:iyfyus.jpg:

( assuming people understand a bell curve )

You dodged the questions.

Here they are again...

'You typed...'Nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles.'

Answer us this brainiac...how can 400,000 Americans put down a deposit for a Tesla 3 when 'nobody wants' EV's?

Well....?


And show us all link to unbiased, factual proof that 'Americans love big cars always have and always will'?



And where exactly did I say that EV's even came close to non-EV's in sales?

LOL...you keep answering statements that I never made.

As usual the poorly educated self defined conservatives use lies, damn lies and statistics to convince them self of their narrative biases.

Left out of Kook's response, and a lie by omission, is the number of F-150's built by Ford, and the number of all electric cars available in the market. And the number of F-150's which are not used as commuter vehicles, but for commercial and recreational use.

It is an example of Kook's Apple and Antelope comparison, as if they are similar and not very much different. Some people call that from of logic, magical thinking.

Fake?

I just popped up the sales figures for the Ford Focus from 2017. Just the Ford Focus......:cul2:.... more sold than all EV sales combined.

Combined s0n :2up::113:

Magical indeed!
Of course Ford is selling more vehicles, you dolt. Tesla has only existed for 10 years. Ford? A bit more.

Yes, I know. You want a Raptor and a Mustang. I am sure everyone will think you are a real man when you drive by. But then, if you pick what vehicle you buy by whether you think it impresses other people..... well, I can't help you.

That you call a car that goes 0-60 in just over 2 second "faggy" is laughable. That this same car can seat 5 adults and is a luxury car is more proof.

Grow up, kid. Yeah, you don't like the Tesla? Cool. Cheering the failure of an American company? Not cool. Trying to ridicule those who buy a cutting edge technology car because it might hurt car shows? Ridiculous.

Hey what can I say. ...im not the dreamer type. I call it as I see it.... invariably. Five years ago, all the climate Crusaders were telling us that by now
EV's would be very popular. Well, they're not..... well except maybe in the mind of a progressive. But for most people they yield a huge yawn. Again, the modern progressive just simply misunderstands American culture. They love their cars....EV's just don't cut it. Doesn't help that all of them look goofy or plain.

My Mustang is my DD. Not stock. :coffee:. When I pass any kid age 5 - 18, they only have to hear my car and their neck snaps around....then the Ewww's and Ahhhh's. Only a progressive thinks the same thing happens when a Prius does a drive by! They are just not regular guys..... you know the wishy washy type. The progressive is desperate to change the entire culture.... this is one area where they stand on the side of the road with their thumb up their ass.

Teslas are pretty common in Atlanta. I see at least a couple of them every day. But then I get around the city a lot. But they are far from uncommon. And many of the high end cars look "plain" like the Teslas do. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar ect, all have luxury sedans that don't have a lot of flash. For many people, understated is classier.

And if the reason you buy a car is because the sound make 5 - 18 year olds turn their head? You certainly don't fit in the Tesla demographic. But then, neither do I in my older big Suburban. But it tows my camper or boat where I want to go.

AS for your description of the people who want Tesla to succeed, I certainly don't fit the "They are just not regular guys..... you know the wishy washy type" you are thinking of. I am not the typical liberal you are talking about. But then, I am not the typical conservative either. I follow my own beliefs and look at an issue based on the merits, not whether it follows the left or the right.

And when I buy a car, I choose what I want & need. Not what impresses people.
 
I will never willingly drive an electric car.

Ok. But why try so hard to demean them and cheer their failure?

Why do you try so hard to convince others they’re so great?

Why do they have to be subsidized by tax dollars if they’re so great?

The gov't has loaned Tesla money. And they have paid off some of the loans early. I am not up to date on how much has been loaned or repaid, but it certainly seems a better bargain than much of what our gov't spends out tax dollars on. As for the tax breaks for owning them, many have already gone away. Georgia no longer give the $5k tax incentive. The federal incentive is still there. But less reliance on foreign oil is good for the country, not just the EV market.

I have only driven one EV. That was a Tesla Model S. It is a seriously impressive car, both from a performance standpoint and a technology standpoint. I like seeing innovative companies do well. Especially American companies. I am not pushing for anyone to buy one if they don't want it. But I do take exception to people cheering the demise of American innovation. Especially since the EV is not going away.
 
Not even close ...

d5b96fb626a9bf21b98628f4ece6fe2a.jpg

Very nice car (I owned a '70 and a '74 Challenger...loved 'em...years ago)...but there is no way I would want this as my only car today.

One, even if it has a 426 (I cannot read the hood numbers)...it's still slow by today's standards. 0-60 for a Hemi 'cuda was only 5.8 seconds.

A base '18 Mustang will beat that. A stock '18 GT will blow it away...and get FAR better gas mileage PLUS be MUCH easier to maintain.

Ford Mustang 0-60 Times - 0-60 Specs

And handling? Forget it.

Other then the looks and the sound (which are both great), the muscle car era are just no match for today's cars.
 
I might be open to some sort of larger vehicle for hauling loads if you can demonstrate need.

882111eee95dd786f2139bc943f8fb1e.jpg

Dude you got to stop in here more often. Lmao..... these progressives like Winterborn..... there's more humor in a small soap dish. All these anti tradition people.... you go years in here seeing their posts and not have one laugh. Oy

Oh and dollar to 1000 stale donuts Winterbourne doesn't even know what that car is that you posted the pic of. None of these people are car guys.... people like this are far more content floating around in a row boat.:113:

It is not that hard to spot a 'Cuda. I was at a music event Saturday that had a car show. I spent an hour or so talking with a guy who brought his '65 Barracuda. Sweet ride.

I have a great sense of humor. I just don't see the point in trashing something just because it is not my thing. But then, I don't depend on the opinions of others to find my worth.

I've had my cars and appreciate good ones. But just because I miss my '68 Mustang does not mean I want to see Tesla fail. That is the difference between us. For you, anyone who has different tastes is wrong. I know what I want and don't give a damn whether other people like it or not.

I like the Tesla. But, right now, I drive a big ol' Suburban 4x4. It makes it easier to tow what I want to take with me, and gets me and my gear in where the fishing and hunting are good. But then, I am just a progressive, according to you. I am pro-gun, pro-tax reform, pro-smaller gov't, and prof-individual freedom. So spare me your incessant need to categorize anyone who disagrees with you as a progressive.
 
"If 200+ mile EV's can be manufactured at a profit for under $25,000...EV sales will explode."

So where is it?, the ability to make such a car already exist, so why haven't they made them?

There are no EV's sold in America for under $25K (before Government incentives). Where is this ability to make this car that you are speaking of?

If Chevy is losing $9K per Bolt...then clearly the ability has not yet arrived.

"Think about it? Would you rather buy a Chevy Cruze or a Chevy Bolt for $25K (assuming they are equally equipped)? Unless you are an idiot, drive strictly on the highway or plan to keep the car for 8+ years...you will choose the Bolt as it will cost a LOT less for maintenance/operating costs for the first 5-6 years of driving."

I wouldn't buy either piece of trash since they don't do what I want in a vehicle.

The point was if you had to choose between the two.


My overall point is that there is DEFINITELY a desire for EV's...it's just that the battery technology has not arrived yet.

Will they ever? I assume so...but I don't know.

You should understand that I have no intention of preventing EV's from being sold, it is the idea that having them is good for the environment or prevent climate change or other bogus arguments.

They have long shown their value in many areas already from electric Forklifts (which I have driven) to electric hydraulics (which I have operated). They work well as long as they fit in with what they are designed for. Cars not as well because of the sheer distance, loading requirement and weather impacts will always limit them.

I have not heard of any large problems with EV's in relation to outside temperature (other then A/C taking up lots of juice).

And it is a fact that Lithium Ion batteries prefer cold to warm temperatures.

How does cold weather affect lithium batteries? | Lithium Pros

Do you have a link from an unbiased source that shows that EV's greatly deteriorate in variable climates?

BU-502: Discharging at High and Low Temperatures
From your own link you didn't read:

"ALL batteries will perform poorly in cold weather, regardless of whether they are lithium or lead-acid. In fact, a lithium battery will still outperform a comparably-sized lead-acid when the temperature drops."

Ooops.

Do Electric Cars Work in Cold Weather? Get the Facts...

From what I can see...EV's drop about 20-30% in below freezing weather. Not that big of a deal. Most people only drive about 35-40 miles per day on average. So if their 200 mile EV only gets 150 in the cold...no big deal.
Plus, if the battery is kept warm before starting (EV's are usually plugged in overnight), that would improve.

Besides, most Americans spend far less than 50% of the time in freezing weather.

I appreciate your point (and your link). But I just don't think it is a big deal.

A FAR bigger problem to me is finding a cheaper EV battery to manufacture than Li-Ion's.

I always had to plug my diesel truck in when it got really cold. Doesn't seem much different.
 
Lol.....whatever you say s0n!!

But I navigate in the real world being the old dart that I am.

Large car sales for last quarter of 2017 >>

US car sales data large car segment - Left-Lane.com

Yuk....yuk....almost as many large cars are sold in 1 quarter as all EV sales COMBINED for a year!! Ford alone sells 100k F150 trucks/month.

Sure looks like the old dart 50's guy is winning!!:iyfyus.jpg:

( assuming people understand a bell curve )

You dodged the questions.

Here they are again...

'You typed...'Nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles.'

Answer us this brainiac...how can 400,000 Americans put down a deposit for a Tesla 3 when 'nobody wants' EV's?

Well....?


And show us all link to unbiased, factual proof that 'Americans love big cars always have and always will'?



And where exactly did I say that EV's even came close to non-EV's in sales?

LOL...you keep answering statements that I never made.

Well s0n.... I can't help you if you don't have the ability to think on the margin. I presented the sales figures.... most people can think on the margin and understand fully what 150,000 total sales means relative to the millions of sales of conventional vehicles. Duh....

It means, quite simply, nobody wants those faggy electric vehicles....the 2 door Specks!!

Americans have been in love with their big vehicles for 75 years!!

:spinner:https://www.quora.com/Why-do-many-A...er-than-small-ones-which-cause-less-pollution :spinner:

Notice how they completely ignore my databased post #37?

What did I tell you about this place?:eusa_dance::eusa_dance: = why the Second Amendment is one certainty in life!!

Oh spare us your "poor pitiful, endangered conservative" routine. And don't try to claim this has anything to do with the 2nd Amendment. I am a lifelong shooter and hunter. I have been shooting with a Tesla owner.

And nobody says you have to drive an EV, or even that you should. But why cheer the failure of good technology and an American company that is at the leading edge? Is it just to be an asshole or did your girlfriend leave you for a guy in Tesla?
Thank you, 'Winter'. It has always been astonishing that such a visceral hate is displayed concerning alternatives to petroleum powered vehicles. The word troglodyte must have been created for such poor souls.
 
It has always been astonishing that such a visceral hate is displayed concerning alternatives to petroleum powered vehicles.

I don't hear anyone saying they don't want Americans to have the right to buy electric vehicles if that's their particular kink.

Everyone should have the right to drive around in a mobile feminine hygiene product if that floats their boat.

To what I object, and I suspect others object as well, is taxpayer dollars going to subsidize someone's personal car purchase and the threat that's already been raised by some to make electric cars mandatory.

As long as the market is allowed to operate freely in regards to electric cars, I think the car makers should make all they want.
 
It has always been astonishing that such a visceral hate is displayed concerning alternatives to petroleum powered vehicles.

I don't hear anyone saying they don't want Americans to have the right to buy electric vehicles if that's their particular kink.

Everyone should have the right to drive around in a mobile feminine hygiene product if that floats their boat.

To what I object, and I suspect others object as well, is taxpayer dollars going to subsidize someone's personal car purchase and the threat that's already been raised by some to make electric cars mandatory.

As long as the market is allowed to operate freely in regards to electric cars, I think the car makers should make all they want.

I am all for removing tax subsidies. But we know that won't happen. At least this tax subsidy is aimed at helping people own an EV.
 
Notice how they completely ignore my databased post #37?

Yep, we did ignore them. Because they are meaningless. Ford Motor Company has been in business for 115 years. Tesla has been in business for 10. And your "databased post" shows that Tesla does not sell nearly as many cars as Ford. Well Duh! So how many MONTHS does a new car company have before they are expected to equal their century old competition or be seen as a failure?

Sure there is difference in how long they exist as a company, but since 2012 Ford F series alone outsells ALL EV's combined. EV's doesn't even keep up with a segment of the car sales industry.

Normally I would have no objection to seeing EV's being made and sold anywhere, it is the over the top subsidy/Tax money give away to "renewable companies" which most fail anyway, and the absurd idea that they will somehow prevent a run away warming from happening, or something along those lines.

EV"s actually INCREASE power consumption, which then increase use of power production mostly from Coal, Oil and Gas.

And you don't think the 100 years of car sales has ANY effect on the number of vehicles sold now? Really?

And what does the most expensive Ford truck sell for? $75k? Half the cost of an ordinary Tesla Model S?

Ford F Series began in 1948, which is 70 years, the F-150 series began in 1975, which is only 43 years ago.

Standard 2017 Ford F-150 cost around $28,000, F-250 around $34,000

You are losing it, being so far off on your weak defense of an idea that will never dominate the market. It has built in limitations that Gasoline cars easily handle.

I was referring to Ford Motor Co. As for the F series beginning in 1948, do you not think that the Ford name helped sell those trucks? Do you not think the F100 trucks helped sell the F150s in 1948?

And if you notice, I was asking what the most expensive F Series truck. $28k and $34k are far from the most expensive models and trims (actually, according to the Ford website, the only F150 that sells for under $30 is the regular cab XL 2WD). Yes, a standard F-150 starts around $30. But a Ford F-150 Limited starts at $60k, and goes up as you add options.

But that aside, since you were actually proving my point, the less expensive cars will always have greater sales numbers. In almost every society, more people can afford a $28k Ford than can afford a $130k Tesla. But then, more people can afford a Ford F-150 XL starting at $34k than can afford an F-150 Limited starting at $60k. So the price has an effect on the volume of sales.


Your entire idea that comparing a new car company with a 115 year old car company, strictly on units sold, is ridiculous. If you want more proof, when was the last completely new car company that started up?


As I said earlier EV's will continue to be a niche market until battery technology improves. EV's offer better performance and handling and are best suited for an urban environment. Both Ford and GM will offer hybrids in all their model lines within the next 2-3 years while continuing to develop better EV's.

Concerning the F150, Ford will have a hybrid in 2020, with a 2.7L Eco boost/ electric combination, rated to tow 8500 lbs., carry six passengers plus 1000lbs. is the bed and be rated at 35mpg on the highway. Unfortunately instead of the $28.5K base price the hybrid will be closer to $40K, we will see how well it sells.
 
At least this tax subsidy is aimed at helping people own an EV.

I think more people should own Ferraris .... where's their tax subsidy?

Is there an advantage for the nation for more people to drive Ferraris, like reducing dependency on foreign oil and seeing an American company stay on the leading edge of EV technology?

Look, I said I disagree with the tax breaks and subsidies. But look at the subsidies our gov't gives companies that make huge profits. And the $7,500 tax subsidy is a relatively minor amount, considering the very low sales EVs have (according to other posters on this thread).
 
Look, I said I disagree with the tax breaks and subsidies. But look at the subsidies our gov't gives companies that make huge profits. And the $7,500 tax subsidy is a relatively minor amount, considering the very low sales EVs have (according to other posters on this thread).
For those who criticize EV subsidies, there ironically is also the corn subsidy for ethanol in gas driven cars. Corn ethanol is one of the worst things that happened to car fuel.
 
Look, I said I disagree with the tax breaks and subsidies. But look at the subsidies our gov't gives companies that make huge profits. And the $7,500 tax subsidy is a relatively minor amount, considering the very low sales EVs have (according to other posters on this thread).
For those who criticize EV subsidies, there ironically is also the corn subsidy for ethanol in gas driven cars. Corn ethanol is one of the worst things that happened to car fuel.

Yup, all ethanol subsidies/mandates need to go away.
 
Look, I said I disagree with the tax breaks and subsidies. But look at the subsidies our gov't gives companies that make huge profits. And the $7,500 tax subsidy is a relatively minor amount, considering the very low sales EVs have (according to other posters on this thread).
For those who criticize EV subsidies, there ironically is also the corn subsidy for ethanol in gas driven cars. Corn ethanol is one of the worst things that happened to car fuel.

Yup, all ethanol subsidies/mandates need to go away.

Agreed.....and subsidies for E V's especially since the typical buyer of these cars make north of 100K....st00pid.
 

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