Americans May Not Be 'Sold' On National Health Care

[Swamp Fox]

I love this country and having worked in the FEDERAL government, which would be running the health care if some have their way, I KNOW how fucked up it is.

Police and fire are local government, which run tons better then the feds can ever dream of. That's because they have to be more responsive to the people because if they don't, they are out on their ass.

Federal bureaucrats spend their time in meetings thinking of ways to protect their little piece of the federal pie, not trying to improve the way they work or how they work.

 

[nibor]

Nibor,


I think I now understand why people dont respond to most of your posts.

You have no solution in mind at all do you.

You dont even understand the subject.


There are dozens of examples of how a universal system works better and is cheaper than the system we now have. Those are facts.

We can develop a system that works better than all of them if we have hte courage. We will save money and have a healthier populace.

You dont even have the slightest idea of what you speak.

Where would you start...................by creating a universal clusterfuck without fixing the one in place that we already have.................

Um yeah that's the answer.................where would you start being the genius that you claim to be................

at the gubmental level.............at the insurance level...............at the pharmecutical level.....................what level............all levels in this question hold equal importance and responsibility,

 

[nibor]

I never CLAIMED as you have to have all the answers geek.................but I do know that I have no health insurance...................but my family can't be sheltered under the paper that the policy is written on................we can't EAT the fucking policy as idiots like you may suggest.................we could probably BURN the fucking policy THAT MY DAUGHTER HAS at 50 below zero, that decides it's not going to cover my grand child's innoculations or any other infirmity they think is unworthy........................so tell us genius in ungeneric terms how YOU'D FIX ANY OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Truthmatters]

I never claimed to be a genius.

I have presented the facts.

We have the most expensive system in the world and it if far for the best at supplying the best care.

Many other western countries have better care than us.

I have sugested we study the ones who are doing the best. Then we set up a system that takes the best of elements and combine them to make a sytem which makes the others want to emulate us because of the efficiency and results.

The countries with the best care with the best cost savings are ones with comprehensive universal care.

It takes the brains to recognise that our system is failing and needs a completet overhaul.

You just want to fight and call names and declare it is undoable.

You are a waste of anyones time with this attitude. American does not need to fail and you seem to think it is only capable of failure.

 

[nibor]

I never claimed to be a genius.

I have presented the facts.

We have the most expensive system in the world and it if far for the best at supplying the best care.

Many other western countries have better care than us.

I have sugested we study the ones who are doing the best. Then we set up a system that takes the best of elements and combine them to make a sytem which makes the others want to emulate us because of the efficiency and results.

The countries with the best care with the best cost savings are ones with comprehensive universal care.

It takes the brains to recognise that our system is failing and needs a completet overhaul.

You just want to fight and call names and declare it is undoable.

You are a waste of anyones time with this attitude. American does not need to fail and you seem to think it is only capable of failure.

Fuck you asshole you insulted me first...................I wanted to talk about it and see if there were answers besides dumping the system and starting again!!!!!!

 

[Truthmatters]

I love this country and having worked in the FEDERAL government, which would be running the health care if some have their way, I KNOW how fucked up it is.

Police and fire are local government, which run tons better then the feds can ever dream of. That's because they have to be more responsive to the people because if they don't, they are out on their ass.

Federal bureaucrats spend their time in meetings thinking of ways to protect their little piece of the federal pie, not trying to improve the way they work or how they work.

Our founding fathers saw the need for a federal element to our government. They understood if you leave everything to the states there will in some sectors be a race to chase some of the population to other states so that they became another states problem. We are the United states not just separate states. We have national programs in areas where the states can not solve the problems.

You can pretend that federal programs are all failures but then you would just be a fool. Healthcare can not be solved by the states or it would have already been solved. We need a federal program like the countries who have seen success in this area. What we are currently doing is failing. Wake up.

 

[Truthmatters]

Fuck you asshole you insulted me first...................I wanted to talk about it and see if there were answers besides dumping the system and starting again!!!!!!

No you wanted to say the American people can create nothing good to answer the problem.

The government is us and you think we can do nothing but fail.

 

[Foxfyre]

Let's start with the premise that MOST people who don't have health care are 1) those who CHOOSE not to have health care but are willing to gamble that they won't need it while they divert their cash to things that are a whole lot more fun to have or do; 2) those who inadvertently or intentionally are temporarily without health care while they are between jobs or such circumstances as that--a huge percentage of the presumed 40 million without health care are such transitional people who mostly go 'bare' for a few days, weeks, or months and the people involved are constantly changing; 3) those who are in the country illegally.

Oddly the same folks who think we should be providing for Group 1 are the same folks who think people should have the right to have their doctor kill them or assist them with a suicide. It defies logic then why these same people should not also have the right to choose whether they have health care or not.

The second group are also not a serious problem as most of these will be mostly young and generally healthy.

The third group we will be taking care of whether or not we have universal government provide healthcare.

The United States had great affordable healthcare that most people could afford with or without insurance before the government got involved in it. From the very first day Medicare went into effect, the costs began spiking upward and Medicaid has exacerbated the problem. There is no reason to believe that the government taking over all of it will not make it worse. Even if the government forced prices down, the incentives to provide excellent quality in medicine would almost certainly also go down.

And I think most thinking Americans are convinced of these facts or at least are pondering them. And I think that is reflected in Kathianne's posted poll that started the thread.

 

[Truthmatters]

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

lets start with the facts people.

BTW I was wrong we are 37th.

 

[nibor]

No you wanted to say the American people can create nothing good to answer the problem.

The government is us and you think we can do nothing but fail.

Ok zip this guys pod he's done.....................I see no viable representation WHEN IT MATTERS................all I see is thousand dollar per plate lap dancing turn coat waffle artists that may swallow now and then while getting NOTHING DONE..............let alone reform ANYTHING................

 

[Truthmatters]

You have offered no solution only insults and claims it is impossible.

I have offered a sound rational way to get the best medical care at the best cost by letting ohter countries provide the the trail and error perioid we can now avoid by observing the successes and failures of the rest of the world.

It is what smart people do when they want to solve a problem.

The information is out there for the gathering and the results are proven.

 

[nibor]

Let's start with the premise that MOST people who don't have health care are 1) those who CHOOSE not to have health care but are willing to gamble that they won't need it while they divert their cash to things that are a whole lot more fun to have or do; 2) those who inadvertently or intentionally are temporarily without health care while they are between jobs or such circumstances as that--a huge percentage of the presumed 40 million without health care are such transitional people who mostly go 'bare' for a few days, weeks, or months and the people involved are constantly changing; 3) those who are in the country illegally.

Oddly the same folks who think we should be providing for Group 1 are the same folks who think people should have the right to have their doctor kill them or assist them with a suicide. It defies logic then why these same people should not also have the right to choose whether they have health care or not.

The second group are also not a serious problem as most of these will be mostly young and generally healthy.

The third group we will be taking care of whether or not we have universal government provide healthcare.

The United States had great affordable healthcare that most people could afford with or without insurance before the government got involved in it. From the very first day Medicare went into effect, the costs began spiking upward and Medicaid has exacerbated the problem. There is no reason to believe that the government taking over all of it will not make it worse. Even if the government forced prices down, the incentives to provide excellent quality in medicine would almost certainly also go down.

And I think most thinking Americans are convinced of these facts or at least are pondering them. And I think that is reflected in Kathianne's posted poll that started the thread.

Of course you're missing a portion of the population OUTSIDE corporate headquarters who can't AFFORD 900.00 A FUCKING MONTH FOR REAL HEALTHCARE.......................WHO DO NOT CHOOSE NOT TO HAVE IT...........

 

[nibor]

You have offered no solution only insults and claims it is impossible.

I have offered a sound rational way to get the best medical care at the best cost by letting ohter countries provide the the trail and error perioid we can now avoid by observing the successes and failures of the rest of the world.

It is what smart people do when they want to solve a problem.

The information is out there for the gathering and the results are proven.

You shouldn't have pissed me off in the first place, right away this morning............I might have been more receptive to your blind retoric smarty!!!!!!

 

[Truthmatters]

http://www.medicarerights.org/maincontenthistory.html

here is the history of why medicare was created.



The Social Security system, which was created as an economic safety net for older Americans, was failing to protect them against the greatest single cause of economic dependency in old age–the high cost of medical care. The 1950 census showed that the aged population had grown from 3 million in 1900 to 12 million in 1950, or from 4 to 8 percent of the U.S. population. Two-thirds of older Americans had incomes of less than $1,000 annually, and only 1 in 8 had health insurance.1 Private insurers had long considered this illness-prone population a "bad risk," and even unions were generally unable to purchase coverage for retirees through employer-sponsored plans.

 

[Truthmatters]

You shouldn't have pissed me off in the first place, right away this morning............I might have been more receptive to your blind retoric smarty!!!!!!

I am not responsible for your inability to control yourself ....YOU ARE

 

[nibor]

I am not responsible for your inability to control yourself ....YOU ARE

AND YOUR RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SELF RIGHTEOUS DRIBBLE, DRIBBLE.............


Fuck you!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Truthmatters]

AND YOUR RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SELF RIGHTEOUS DRIBBLE, DRIBBLE.............


Fuck you!!!!!!!!!!

No thanks.


Do you want to adress any of the facts I have provided you?

 

[Truthmatters]

OK Then.

We have estamblished that medicare was a program created because the open market was failing to serve the aged polulace who lived on a fixed income and could not afford medical care at a ration of 7 in 8.

This meant we had a vast population of elderly who had NO health care at all.
Now this may be fine for some third world country but having elderly people dying and sick all over everyones town kinda got to people so America sought a solution.

We now have a situation where insurance companies dont want to insure the sick and only want to insure the healthy. If you are concerned about only profit and dont give a rats ass about people getting any needed care then they are doing the smart thing. You only insure the people who are not going to need a Dr. That way you get payed and dont have to pay out. Big profits. In the meantime people who cant get their healthcare any way else are crowding emergency care fascilities and bringing up the cost of healthcare.

So it kinda works out that the only people who are getting care are those who dont need any or those who have a shit load of money. It will continue to get worse as our population ages.

The countries who are having the greatest success at solving these problems are the ones with universal healthcare. They are keeping the costs down by keeping everyone as healthy as possible. Preventative care is a big cost saving. They end up with a healthy populace and a cost saving. Why in the hell would we ignore these facts just because some of you like to browbeat the federal government?

 

[nibor]

No thanks.


Do you want to adress any of the facts I have provided you?

No thanks, maybe later when your tightassed personna isn't here pissing me off.....................

 

[Swamp Fox]

Our founding fathers saw the need for a federal element to our government. They understood if you leave everything to the states there will in some sectors be a race to chase some of the population to other states so that they became another states problem. We are the United states not just separate states. We have national programs in areas where the states can not solve the problems.

Thanks for the history lecture, Professor. I am aware of the Founding Fathers and their ideas for federal government. I am also aware that the Founding Fathers considered the federal government as the engine for dealing with the foreign powers and providing for national defense. I wasn't aware of any of the Founding Fathers thinking that a national health care system should be in the purview of the federal government.

You can pretend that federal programs are all failures but then you would just be a fool. Healthcare can not be solved by the states or it would have already been solved. We need a federal program like the countries who have seen success in this area. What we are currently doing is failing. Wake up.

America was founded on the principles of personal responsibility. I am responsible for me and mine, you are responsible for you and yours. To take money from me to support you goes against all of the principles this country was founded on. No one is denied medical treatment in this country, whether they are insured or not. If you desire to have national healthcare, why don't you move to one of those countries whose program is so successful and quit trying to rob me of my hard earned money.

And having seen the federal government in action up close and personal, you do not want them to be in charge of anything you value.