Americans hate liberty

[Mr.Nick]

^^Thinks Lincoln prime objective was to free black people in which he hated.

^^Thinks he knows what I think and is Wrong.

Lincoln Wanted to Preserve the Union. Freeing the Slaves was a Means to and end not the Reason for the war.

Right. Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union and defeat the Confederacy. But the Confederacy seceded to preserve and expand slavery. Thus, the war WAS about slavery, even if that wasn't Lincoln's initial focus.

The civil war was not about slavery...

100 years from now I'm sure some dumb shit will be saying "the wars in Iraq 100 years ago were about Muslims."

 

[Liability]

I don't care about your race, sex, creed, religion.

If you don't defend habeas corpus, then you are a fucking asshole.

I defend habeas corpus.

But I probably don't agree with you as to the question of to whom it pertains.

And since I am right, that would seem to make you (using your definition, of course) a "fucking asshole."

 

[Charles_Main]

You may love the Constitution but you’re ignorant of its case law – See: Ex parte Milligan (1866), as cited above.

‘As long as proper oversight can be maintained…’

Incorrect again. In Boumediene v. Bush (2008), the Court held that the Military Commissions Act of 2006, the ‘proper oversight,’ was Constitutionally insufficient and that the Guantanamo detainees have the right under the Constitution to file habeas petitions.

You just proved my point. I said as long as proper oversight can be maintained. What you seem to fail to understand is that the fact that a court ruled on it. means the system worked. The Executive Overstepped and the Courts corrected them.

The Constitution works.

 

[Liability]

Actually suspension IS PROVIDE FOR in the constitution.

When the survival of the state is at stake, it makes no sense to disallow suspension of habeas corpus, since if it the state is destroyed, it can't guarantee ANY rights.

In Ex parte Milligan (1866), the Court established the criteria by which habeas may be suspended: only in places where there is ‘actual military war’ and where the courts are no longer functioning. By this standard Lincoln’s act was un-Constitutional, as the courts were functioning in Maryland.

I Love the Constitution, and the Constitution Clearly states that Hebeas Corpus can be suspended in times of Rebellion or Insurrection and in the interests of national Security and in national emergencies. Which the Confederacy most certainly was all of those things.

The Selective and rarely used suspension of habeas corpus the Government Uses in the War on Terror is acceptable under the Constitution as well. As long as proper oversight can be maintained, I see it as a necessary evil.

All of our rights have limits on them. You have free Speech, But see what happens if you yell fire in a crowded Building, or tell someone you wish the president harm.

You have freedom of Religion but if your Religion say believes in plural Marriage then well, not so much.

You have the Right to vote but if you commit a felony You can lose it.

The Constitution is not a suicide Pact. The Executive is given the Power to Suspend habeas corpus and Declare Marshal Law in emergencies for a reason. Yes we must remain Vigilant and make sure that power is not abused, but it is necessary.

Had Old Abe not done what he did. the US as we know it might not even be here right now.

You may love the Constitution but you’re ignorant of its case law – See: Ex parte Milligan (1866), as cited above.

‘As long as proper oversight can be maintained…’

Incorrect again. In Boumediene v. Bush (2008), the Court held that the Military Commissions Act of 2006, the ‘proper oversight,’ was Constitutionally insufficient and that the Guantanamo detainees have the right under the Constitution to file habeas petitions.

George W. Bush – yet another president to add to the list of those who illegally suspended the Writ.

You're just trying to use facts and logic to confuse him! Not fair!!

And that would be a fail for you as well; see the facts above.

The Judicial Branch overstepped.

 

[WillowTree]

ZOMG.....I disagree with the Constitution and the suspension of habeas corpus.

Fucking shoot me.

When the survival of the state is at stake, it makes no sense to disallow suspension of habeas corpus, since if it the state is destroyed, it can't guarantee ANY rights.

ZOMG, I am a heretic and throw me away in your secret prisons without ever trying me.

Fucking republicans and their love of the state...lol.

Anyone who says ZOMG repeatedly is a fucking moron.

 

[Moonglow]

what liberty? there has always been laws. even nature has laws.

 

[Iridescence]

:whatchagonnado: I wanted to be the only buddha :whatchagonnado:

 

[bripat9643]

Only Ron Paul defends habeas corpus. Republicans act like fascists and pretend it doesn't exist and liberals pay lip service to it while being more fascist than Republicans.

Habeas corpus is a fundamental pillar of liberty. Sadly, most Americans don't give a fuck for it.

Habeas Corpus is for American citizens only.

Ron Paul doesn't seem to get that.

I'm a libertarian, but that's one reason I would never vote for him.

 

[grunt11b]

Americans hate liberty

Disagree.

Many Americans fear liberty.

Disagree, liberals fear liberty for the rest of us.

 

[grunt11b]

Is GTMO closed yet?

It should be. What a disgrace along with Abu Ghraib.

Terrorist recruitment tools at the expense of liberty.

Terrorist recruit tools? I think not. Did killing germans in world war 2 create more nazis? No it didn't. That recruit bullshit is just that, liberal bullshit.

 

[grunt11b]

Only Ron Paul defends habeas corpus. Republicans act like fascists and pretend it doesn't exist and liberals pay lip service to it while being more fascist than Republicans.

Habeas corpus is a fundamental pillar of liberty. Sadly, most Americans don't give a fuck for it.

Roosevelt suspended it during WWII for the nazi saboteurs, and Bill Clinton limited it in signing the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. Read a history book, hockey puck.

They are dicks. What is your point.

Lincoln also suspended habeas corpus, who was a statist prick who waged a bloodbath against his fellow Americans.

And all this time I thought libs cared about blacks and their liberation from slavery.

 

[grunt11b]

It should be. What a disgrace along with Abu Ghraib.

Terrorist recruitment tools at the expense of liberty.

A few rogue troops - don't get your panties in a knot.

^^Asshole who pays good blood money for Raymond Davis while torturing Bradley Manning.

Fuck bradley manning, he is a traitor and should be lined up on a wall and shot, he would have been shot for treason 60 years ago when america had balls before the libs took over.

 

[grunt11b]

I don't care about your race, sex, creed, religion.

If you don't defend habeas corpus, then you are a fucking asshole.

I agree 100%

 

[grunt11b]

They are dicks. What is your point.

Lincoln also suspended habeas corpus, who was a statist prick who waged a bloodbath against his fellow Americans.

Actually suspension IS PROVIDE FOR in the constitution. OH wait, let me guess - you think the constitution is a "fascist prick" too?

ZOMG.....I disagree with the Constitution and the suspension of habeas corpus.

Fucking shoot me.

tough shit if you disagree with it, it's the law of the land, deal with it.

 

[grunt11b]

ZOMG.....I disagree with the Constitution and the suspension of habeas corpus.

Fucking shoot me.

When the survival of the state is at stake, it makes no sense to disallow suspension of habeas corpus, since if it the state is destroyed, it can't guarantee ANY rights.

ZOMG, I am a heretic and throw me away in your secret prisons without ever trying me.

Fucking republicans and their love of the state...lol.

Fucking democrats and their hate for the constitution and the exceptionalism of America. You should be ashamed to vote democrat, but your not apparently.

 

[Kuros]

^^Thinks he knows what I think and is Wrong.

Lincoln Wanted to Preserve the Union. Freeing the Slaves was a Means to and end not the Reason for the war.

Right. Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union and defeat the Confederacy. But the Confederacy seceded to preserve and expand slavery. Thus, the war WAS about slavery, even if that wasn't Lincoln's initial focus.

The civil war was not about slavery...

100 years from now I'm sure some dumb shit will be saying "the wars in Iraq 100 years ago were about Muslims."

Probably the same dumbasses who look to George III for the causes of the American War for Independence rather than the circumstances and motivations of the revolutionaries. Likewise, Lincoln's motivations in the war are barely relevant. We should look to the secessionists' own words.

I'm not going to suck down the noble lie to allow Southerners to bask in their own founding father fantasies when the plain facts show the reality to be otherwise.


Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

. . .

This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.