Americans blame Republicans for the economy

[PoliticalChic]

Completely true.

Unknowing people or extreme partisans want to blame every leaf that falls to the ground on the other party but in fact, this crisis was created mainly outside of the political arena, and both parties are bit players in the grand scheme of things.

Hey, Bullfrog, glad to see your new fall-back position. Remember when it used to be "Republicans are to blame..."?

I'd like to think my tutorials on Conservative principles brought you around. So now we are on common ground: if the political-financial system had not given mortgages to those who couldn't afford them, we wouldn't have had the mortgage meltdown.

Good boy!

Anne, Sweetheart, I know you're busy hunting down traitorous liberals and all that but pay attention!

The primary cause of the bubble was the Federal Reserve, IMO.

Anne? Hey, is there someone else in your life???

So, when will you be going back to that last picture you posted?

 

[neurosport]

bobo have you ever considered that before casting the blame as far as who killed the economy you should at least try to understand WHAT killed it ?

neither you nor politicalchic seem to be concerned with that question AT ALL.

you seem to think you can sentence the guilty party without even knowing what the crime was.

 

[PoliticalChic]

bobo have you ever considered that before casting the blame as far as who killed the economy you should at least try to understand WHAT killed it ?

neither you nor politicalchic seem to be concerned with that question AT ALL.

you seem to think you can sentence the guilty party without even knowing what the crime was.

Unfair! Unfair!

I though I made clear that good intentions killed it. The Democrat philosophy of giving things rather than allowing folks to earn things turned a normal business cycle recession into much worse.

And I present as proof the fact that had there been no CRA, GSE's Fannie and Freddie, Clinton HUD sec'y, Dodd and Frank, there would have been no mortgage meltdown.

 

[Iriemon]

bobo have you ever considered that before casting the blame as far as who killed the economy you should at least try to understand WHAT killed it ?

neither you nor politicalchic seem to be concerned with that question AT ALL.

you seem to think you can sentence the guilty party without even knowing what the crime was.

Unfair! Unfair!

I though I made clear that good intentions killed it. The Democrat philosophy of giving things rather than allowing folks to earn things turned a normal business cycle recession into much worse.

And I present as proof the fact that had there been no CRA, GSE's Fannie and Freddie, Clinton HUD sec'y, Dodd and Frank, there would have been no mortgage meltdown.

And that's a fact because there were no real estate "bubbles" before these programs?

 

[PoliticalChic]

bobo have you ever considered that before casting the blame as far as who killed the economy you should at least try to understand WHAT killed it ?

neither you nor politicalchic seem to be concerned with that question AT ALL.

you seem to think you can sentence the guilty party without even knowing what the crime was.

Unfair! Unfair!

I though I made clear that good intentions killed it. The Democrat philosophy of giving things rather than allowing folks to earn things turned a normal business cycle recession into much worse.

And I present as proof the fact that had there been no CRA, GSE's Fannie and Freddie, Clinton HUD sec'y, Dodd and Frank, there would have been no mortgage meltdown.

And that's a fact because there were no real estate "bubbles" before these programs?

I don't think you have addressed my point. Consider the current crisis, which is under discussion. Would you not agree that the situation would be different if more were required as a down payment? If loans had not been given simply to address red-lining?

Politics dictated that more people having what they want is good for elections, and as long as home prices increased, the ponzi scheme worked.

From these origins, and remember that the GSE's go back to 1938, other problems, such as financial institutions coming up with gimmicks like bundling mortgages, selling and reselling, etc. spun off.

But you probed the What, which I take to mean the original "sin."

 

[neurosport]

politicalchic what makes you so sure that the housing bubble is what did us in ?

that is the OFFICIAL STORY doesn't mean its the case.

my understanding is that the entire economy was one giant bubble and the popping of the housing bubble merely catalyzed the popping of the economy-wide bubble.

the economy-wide bubble was being inflated under both Clinton and Bush.

and the Chinese were blowing their own bubble on their side.

my man here explains EVERYTHING:

Article Page

he correctly points out that " it is politically irresistible to blow bubbles "

has absolutely NOTHING to do with what party you belong to. has everything to do with sacrificing the FUTURE of the country for the PRESENT political advantage.

people blame republicans for the mess because the bubble POPPED when a republican was in office. people aren't smart enough to ask the question - who was blowing the bubble in the first place.

politicians KNOW THIS. they KNOW nobody will have the brains to figure out it was THEIR fault 15 years down the line. in the meantime as you're blowing the bubble economy is booming and you are a hero ...

the only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Democrats increase taxes while Republicans increase deficits and Democrats increase spending on social programs while Republicans increase spending on military.

both are equally adept at bankrupting the nation.

politicians in both parties are prostitutes and voters in both parties are cretins.

 

[Iriemon]

Unfair! Unfair!

I though I made clear that good intentions killed it. The Democrat philosophy of giving things rather than allowing folks to earn things turned a normal business cycle recession into much worse.

And I present as proof the fact that had there been no CRA, GSE's Fannie and Freddie, Clinton HUD sec'y, Dodd and Frank, there would have been no mortgage meltdown.

And that's a fact because there were no real estate "bubbles" before these programs?

I don't think you have addressed my point. Consider the current crisis, which is under discussion. Would you not agree that the situation would be different if more were required as a down payment? If loans had not been given simply to address red-lining?

Sure, but lax loaning practices in times of speculative frenzy when everyone thinks everything will go up and nothing will go do is nothing new. Did the CRA and GSE's mandate all the shoddy lending practices that went on? Did they cause investors to speculate on real estate investments that they thought they could flip (motivated by all those get rich quick commercials)? Did they cause investment banks to invest billions into these crappy mortgages because they thought through securitization they had mitigated the risk?

Politics dictated that more people having what they want is good for elections, and as long as home prices increased, the ponzi scheme worked.

So it always is with speculative frenzy since forever.

From these origins, and remember that the GSE's go back to 1938, other problems, such as financial institutions coming up with gimmicks like bundling mortgages, selling and reselling, etc. spun off.

There were "bubbles" well before then.

But you probed the What, which I take to mean the original "sin."

And after every one of these "bubbles" you can go back and point the fingers at politicians, institutions and people in general. If people didn't buy more house than they could afford, if organizations weren't so big, if bankers weren't so greedy, if politicians weren't such idiots, if the fed hadn't lowered rates, if there was more regulation, careful lending, etc etc. It's alwasy the case, hindsight is easy to judge.

Bubbles are a function of free markets. Boom and bust have alwasy been and will always be, as long as there is greed and fear.

 

[Iriemon]

politicalchic what makes you so sure that the housing bubble is what did us in ?

that is the OFFICIAL STORY doesn't mean its the case.

my understanding is that the entire economy was one giant bubble and the popping of the housing bubble merely catalyzed the popping of the economy-wide bubble.

the economy-wide bubble was being inflated under both Clinton and Bush.

and the Chinese were blowing their own bubble on their side.

my man here explains EVERYTHING:

Article Page

he correctly points out that " it is politically irresistible to blow bubbles "

has absolutely NOTHING to do with what party you belong to. has everything to do with sacrificing the FUTURE of the country for the PRESENT political advantage.

people blame republicans for the mess because the bubble POPPED when a republican was in office. people aren't smart enough to ask the question - who was blowing the bubble in the first place.

politicians KNOW THIS. they KNOW nobody will have the brains to figure out it was THEIR fault 15 years down the line. in the meantime as you're blowing the bubble economy is booming and you are a hero ...

the only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Democrats increase taxes while Republicans increase deficits and Democrats increase spending on social programs while Republicans increase spending on military.

both are equally adept at bankrupting the nation.

politicians in both parties are prostitutes and voters in both parties are cretins.

In the old days they used to call it "boom and bust". Greed fuels speculation. Fear fuels panic.

I certainly agree it would be helpful if the Govt had got its shit together on the budget.

 

[raceright]

Completely true.

Unknowing people or extreme partisans want to blame every leaf that falls to the ground on the other party but in fact, this crisis was created mainly outside of the political arena, and both parties are bit players in the grand scheme of things.

Hey, Bullfrog, glad to see your new fall-back position. Remember when it used to be "Republicans are to blame..."?

I'd like to think my tutorials on Conservative principles brought you around. So now we are on common ground: if the political-financial system had not given mortgages to those who couldn't afford them, we wouldn't have had the mortgage meltdown.

Good boy!

Have you seen how many mansions and expensive homes have foreclosed? Their homes had nothing to do with poor people.

Had more to do with over valuing the home. So rich people walked away from those crappy mortgages.

So it has more to do with the mortgage companies approving bullshit loans.

They made their money, and sold the mortgage to another bank, up and up the ladder, and then they bundled those bad toxic assets together.

If they didn't bundle those mortgages together like that, this wouldn't have happened.

This is a perfect example. Because poor people have a small role in this mess, the right wingers want to suggest that "everyone is to blame".

Very clever. I always said I'd be a Republican if they governed as well as they played politics.

And actually, they are very good at governing too, if you are rich.

None of this was by accident. The bankers all got bailed out. Suckers!!!!

And to blame the poor people. Fucking idiots. Sorry, but you really are sheep.

Your from Michigan and do you think anyone will take you serious,what are you fucking kidding me,Detroit was destroyed by the Democratic Unions and will never recover. Michigan has the worst economy in the USA and has Been a Democratic State since for ever, you live there and are responsible for its turning into a third world type state. Stop blaming any politician as you elected your politicians in that state.
Now even the largest of car companies even can not survive because of the liberal mind set. If there are any fucking idiots around they defiantly vote in Michigan and your one of them. From the hood and your a white guy no wonder your fucked up, Black or white or green if your from the hood in Michigan grab the next train and get out.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

No. Federal power over the economy is in the Congress. What the President can do is fight what they are doing (Dems all the way in this case) or go along. Bush 43 to his never-ending shame (hopefully) did not pay adequate attention to domestic operational issues, or did and was complicit. I do not know either way with any objective certainty.

Here is my two cents. Includes portions from various on-line sources which I agree with.

++
This has been explained many times in many ways. But many of those explanations do not deal with the first principles. Leverage, in a nutshell, is what led us to this point. Banks did it, individuals did it. Federal authorities did not hold the financal industry back. Congress pushed making loans to unqualified people. All, for some reason, assumed the market would continue to rise.

For the purposes here, "leverage" refers to borrowing against the value of an asset and then deploying that money for other investments or expenditures. In a worse-case scenario, which fairly describes what some in the financial industry (globally) engaged in, one leverage is pyramided on top of another. By the way this can work for as long as there is no question about the underlying value of the original asset.


For a variety of reasons, the leverage in our global financial system - as represented by credit outstanding and credit derivatives mushroomed out of all proportion to the underlying economy. This was a credit bubble, plain and simple, and it was destined to pop.
When it did pop, it was manifest first in the U.S. subprime market as this was the weakest link in the chain. However, policy makers were unable to ring-fence the problem and the crisis crossed over into numerous related and unrelated markets which have become dependent on leverage or liquidity.


Eventually, this credit crisis became a full-blown banking crisis as the attendant de-leveraging created such tremendous asset price deflation that financial institutions were forced to write down their assets by hundreds of billions of dollars. Therefore, capital adequacy at many financial institutions reached a distressed level, triggering a crisis of confidence and the bankruptcy of major institutions like Lehman Brothers and Washington Mutual

 

[sealybobo]

No. Federal power over the economy is in the Congress. What the President can do is fight what they are doing (Dems all the way in this case) or go along. Bush 43 to his never-ending shame (hopefully) did not pay adequate attention to domestic operational issues, or did and was complicit. I do not know either way with any objective certainty.

Here is my two cents. Includes portions from various on-line sources which I agree with.

++
This has been explained many times in many ways. But many of those explanations do not deal with the first principles. Leverage, in a nutshell, is what led us to this point. Banks did it, individuals did it. Federal authorities did not hold the financal industry back. Congress pushed making loans to unqualified people. All, for some reason, assumed the market would continue to rise.

For the purposes here, "leverage" refers to borrowing against the value of an asset and then deploying that money for other investments or expenditures. In a worse-case scenario, which fairly describes what some in the financial industry (globally) engaged in, one leverage is pyramided on top of another. By the way this can work for as long as there is no question about the underlying value of the original asset.


For a variety of reasons, the leverage in our global financial system - as represented by credit outstanding and credit derivatives mushroomed out of all proportion to the underlying economy. This was a credit bubble, plain and simple, and it was destined to pop.
When it did pop, it was manifest first in the U.S. subprime market as this was the weakest link in the chain. However, policy makers were unable to ring-fence the problem and the crisis crossed over into numerous related and unrelated markets which have become dependent on leverage or liquidity.


Eventually, this credit crisis became a full-blown banking crisis as the attendant de-leveraging created such tremendous asset price deflation that financial institutions were forced to write down their assets by hundreds of billions of dollars. Therefore, capital adequacy at many financial institutions reached a distressed level, triggering a crisis of confidence and the bankruptcy of major institutions like Lehman Brothers and Washington Mutual

Google RECORD PORK 2005 and see what the GOP did.

Google Deregulations

Google Tom Delay

Google Jack Abramoff

Google War for profit, disaster capitalism, biggest bank robbery, etc.

Google Downing Street Memo

Google socialize the losses and privatize the profits