Americans Acting Like Americans Again

[editec]

I've shown that not to be the case. How is buying a Ford Fusion, 70% of which is made somewhere besides the North American continent, supporting "all of us and America"?

The car salesman, the car lot owner, service department workers, county taxes, etc....

Any car foreign or domestic sold in the US serves the same function.

No they don't.

Many foreign branded cars (and apparently many American branded cars, too) are ASSEMBLED here, but their parts are made offshore.

Assembly is not manufacturing and the economic benefit between a car made here from American made parts, and a car assembled here from foreign made parts is rather dramatically different.

 

[daveman]

The only reason I don't like your answers is because they weren't answers at all.

Nobody said you were advocating dirty air and water.

I'm trying to get your opinion on what needs to be done to compete with $2.00 per hour Mexican labor and how the UAW is at fault if we don't?

That you don't like them doesn't mean they weren't answers. It just means you don't like them.

And yes, whenever a conservative says government needs to get out of the way of business, some moron lefty comes along and says the conservative wants dirty air and water. It's just a matter of time.

C'mon now. Stop trying to deflect. I know you can answer the questions if you try.....

What needs to be done to compete with $2.00 per hour Mexican labor? And exactly how do Unions prevent us from competing?

Can you tell me any non-union industry in the US that can compete with overseas or Mexican labor costs?

What is it with you leftists and redefining words? If I say something you don't like, you either say I didn't answer the questions or you say I'm deflecting.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Answer the question with a statement not another question, daveman. Even you can do this.

 

[daveman]

Answer the question with a statement not another question, daveman. Even you can do this.

I've already answered the question, Jake. Don't make the common leftist mistake of thinking that just because you don't like something it's invalid.

But then, you can't help but make common leftist mistakes.

 

[DaGoose]

Answer the question with a statement not another question, daveman. Even you can do this.

Answer the question with a statement not another question, daveman. Even you can do this.

I've already answered the question, Jake. Don't make the common leftist mistake of thinking that just because you don't like something it's invalid.

But then, you can't help but make common leftist mistakes.

C'mon!! You have yet to answer the question because I think you know you've already dug yourself in a hole that you can't escape.

Ok....you can run but you can't hide.

If you refuse to answer the question allow me to rephrase.

If we got rid of every vestige of unions in the US would we then be able to compete with Mexican labor?

And don't "wussy out". Answer it.

Yes or No

 

[daveman]

Answer the question with a statement not another question, daveman. Even you can do this.

Answer the question with a statement not another question, daveman. Even you can do this.

I've already answered the question, Jake. Don't make the common leftist mistake of thinking that just because you don't like something it's invalid.

But then, you can't help but make common leftist mistakes.

C'mon!! You have yet to answer the question because I think you know you've already dug yourself in a hole that you can't escape.

Ok....you can run but you can't hide.

If you refuse to answer the question allow me to rephrase.

If we got rid of every vestige of unions in the US would we then be able to compete with Mexican labor?

And don't "wussy out". Answer it.

Yes or No

I answered your other question. Your refusal to acknowledge it is dishonest.

Now you're asking a different question. But I'll play your silly little game and answer this one, too.

No, if we got rid of every union, we probably couldn't compete against Mexican labor.

Now answer a question for me:

How is unionizing more Americans going to do anything but drive more industry away?

 

[DaGoose]

Answer the question with a statement not another question, daveman. Even you can do this.

I've already answered the question, Jake. Don't make the common leftist mistake of thinking that just because you don't like something it's invalid.

But then, you can't help but make common leftist mistakes.

C'mon!! You have yet to answer the question because I think you know you've already dug yourself in a hole that you can't escape.

Ok....you can run but you can't hide.

If you refuse to answer the question allow me to rephrase.

If we got rid of every vestige of unions in the US would we then be able to compete with Mexican labor?

And don't "wussy out". Answer it.

Yes or No

I answered your other question. Your refusal to acknowledge it is dishonest.

Now you're asking a different question. But I'll play your silly little game and answer this one, too.

No, if we got rid of every union, we probably couldn't compete against Mexican labor.

Now answer a question for me:

How is unionizing more Americans going to do anything but drive more industry away?

No, if we got rid of every union, we probably couldn't compete against Mexican labor.

So then will you admit that you were WRONG when you said the following?......"The Big 3 moved operations offshore BECAUSE the unions made it cheaper to build elsewhere." Because we are now in agreement that it's not the unions that drive jobs overseas.

How is unionizing more Americans going to do anything but drive more industry away?

Drive them where? We already decided that unions do not drive jobs overseas. I think it's safe to say that if it "drives more industry away" it's going to drive it to "Right To Work" states, not overseas or across the border since you finally agreed that we could not compete with Mexico even if we had NO unions. Doesn't that make sense?

NOW......let's talk about this previously made statement of yours.

Daveman....So labor costs for domestic cars are almost three times the cost of the foreign badges.

Were you right or wrong? Yes or no......

 

[JakeStarkey]

Answer the question with a statement not another question, daveman. Even you can do this.

I've already answered the question, Jake. Don't make the common leftist mistake of thinking that just because you don't like something it's invalid.

But then, you can't help but make common leftist mistakes.

Don't make the far right reactionary mistake "that just because you don't like something it's invalid." That simply makes you a reactionary troll. But I will help you. If our world was perfect, we would have no unions.

Answer the question, troll.

 

[asterism]

The car salesman, the car lot owner, service department workers, county taxes, etc....

Any car foreign or domestic sold in the US serves the same function.

No they don't.

Many foreign branded cars (and apparently many American branded cars, too) are ASSEMBLED here, but their parts are made offshore.

Assembly is not manufacturing and the economic benefit between a car made here from American made parts, and a car assembled here from foreign made parts is rather dramatically different.

Well now you're on the road to describing why GM is not good for this country. A key component to its success is doing just that, buying foreign parts and assembling them here. Right now that foreign entity is Canada which might be a better option than China or it might not. But GM is not a US company anymore, it's a partnership between the governments of the US and Canada. It's worse than a government program, it's a two-government program with twice the inefficiencies.

Oh, and.... http://www.usmessageboard.com/3057454-post51.html

 

[asterism]

Do you guys realize that CHINA is now the world's leading auto maker?

Yeah I admit it came as surprise to me, too.

With the largest local market on the planet and a manufacturing base, how could it not be? How could we have stopped it?

 

[DaGoose]

Do you guys realize that CHINA is now the world's leading auto maker?

Yeah I admit it came as surprise to me, too.

With the largest local market on the planet and a manufacturing base, how could it not be? How could we have stopped it?

Would it surprise you to know that Buick is one of the most popular cars in China?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Do you guys realize that CHINA is now the world's leading auto maker?

Yeah I admit it came as surprise to me, too.

With the largest local market on the planet and a manufacturing base, how could it not be? How could we have stopped it?

That is the best question you have asked in a long time.

 

[DaGoose]

Is it really patriotic to buy an expensive substandard product subsidized by government cronyism? Seems to be rewarding failure and irresponsibly allowing them to be less competitive to me, and that is what caused the whole GM debacle in the first place.

Yes it is more patriotic. But it also makes good economic sense when American cars are every bit as good (and in a lot of cases better) as Japanese (yes, they are), employ more Americans (directly and through supporting industries) and pay more taxes to the US treasury.

What's the American equivalent in value and quality to the BMW X5 built in South Carolina?

I don't know but among SUV's my first choice would be Jeep Grand Cherokee. Second choice would be a Chevy Equinox or Tahoe.

 

[asterism]

Do you guys realize that CHINA is now the world's leading auto maker?

Yeah I admit it came as surprise to me, too.

With the largest local market on the planet and a manufacturing base, how could it not be? How could we have stopped it?

Would it surprise you to know that Buick is one of the most popular cars in China?

No. Why does that matter?

 

[asterism]

Yes it is more patriotic. But it also makes good economic sense when American cars are every bit as good (and in a lot of cases better) as Japanese (yes, they are), employ more Americans (directly and through supporting industries) and pay more taxes to the US treasury.

What's the American equivalent in value and quality to the BMW X5 built in South Carolina?

I don't know but among SUV's my first choice would be Jeep Grand Cherokee. Second choice would be a Chevy Equinox or Tahoe.

Go drive them all with 6 adults in them. Get back to me if you still think they are in the same league. They just aren't.

 

[daveman]

C'mon!! You have yet to answer the question because I think you know you've already dug yourself in a hole that you can't escape.

Ok....you can run but you can't hide.

If you refuse to answer the question allow me to rephrase.

If we got rid of every vestige of unions in the US would we then be able to compete with Mexican labor?

And don't "wussy out". Answer it.

Yes or No

I answered your other question. Your refusal to acknowledge it is dishonest.

Now you're asking a different question. But I'll play your silly little game and answer this one, too.

No, if we got rid of every union, we probably couldn't compete against Mexican labor.

Now answer a question for me:

How is unionizing more Americans going to do anything but drive more industry away?

So then will you admit that you were WRONG when you said the following?......"The Big 3 moved operations offshore BECAUSE the unions made it cheaper to build elsewhere." Because we are now in agreement that it's not the unions that drive jobs overseas.

How is unionizing more Americans going to do anything but drive more industry away?

Drive them where? We already decided that unions do not drive jobs overseas. I think it's safe to say that if it "drives more industry away" it's going to drive it to "Right To Work" states, not overseas or across the border since you finally agreed that we could not compete with Mexico even if we had NO unions. Doesn't that make sense?

NOW......let's talk about this previously made statement of yours.

Daveman....So labor costs for domestic cars are almost three times the cost of the foreign badges.

Were you right or wrong? Yes or no......

"We" didn't decide anything. The union decided it was true, and you parroted it.

 

[DaGoose]

I answered your other question. Your refusal to acknowledge it is dishonest.

Now you're asking a different question. But I'll play your silly little game and answer this one, too.

No, if we got rid of every union, we probably couldn't compete against Mexican labor.

Now answer a question for me:

How is unionizing more Americans going to do anything but drive more industry away?

So then will you admit that you were WRONG when you said the following?......"The Big 3 moved operations offshore BECAUSE the unions made it cheaper to build elsewhere." Because we are now in agreement that it's not the unions that drive jobs overseas.



Drive them where? We already decided that unions do not drive jobs overseas. I think it's safe to say that if it "drives more industry away" it's going to drive it to "Right To Work" states, not overseas or across the border since you finally agreed that we could not compete with Mexico even if we had NO unions. Doesn't that make sense?

NOW......let's talk about this previously made statement of yours.

Daveman....So labor costs for domestic cars are almost three times the cost of the foreign badges.

Were you right or wrong? Yes or no......

"We" didn't decide anything. The union decided it was true, and you parroted it.

Wow. You just keep running around in circles and avoiding questions and trying to deflect the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

First you say......"The Big 3 moved operations offshore BECAUSE the unions made it cheaper to build elsewhere."

Then you admit....."No, if we got rid of every union, we probably couldn't compete against Mexican labor."

So you know you were wrong about your first above statement.

NOW....You also said....."So labor costs for domestic cars are almost three times the cost of the foreign badges."

I'm going to give you another chance to either back up that idiotic statement or admit you were wrong. If you do neither then you are again proving you're a liar. So.....

1) Back it up

2) Admit you were wrong (there's no shame in that)

3) Be a liar

Which will it be?

 

[daveman]

So then will you admit that you were WRONG when you said the following?......"The Big 3 moved operations offshore BECAUSE the unions made it cheaper to build elsewhere." Because we are now in agreement that it's not the unions that drive jobs overseas.



Drive them where? We already decided that unions do not drive jobs overseas. I think it's safe to say that if it "drives more industry away" it's going to drive it to "Right To Work" states, not overseas or across the border since you finally agreed that we could not compete with Mexico even if we had NO unions. Doesn't that make sense?

NOW......let's talk about this previously made statement of yours.



Were you right or wrong? Yes or no......

"We" didn't decide anything. The union decided it was true, and you parroted it.

Wow. You just keep running around in circles and avoiding questions and trying to deflect the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

First you say......"The Big 3 moved operations offshore BECAUSE the unions made it cheaper to build elsewhere."

Then you admit....."No, if we got rid of every union, we probably couldn't compete against Mexican labor."

So you know you were wrong about your first above statement.

NOW....You also said....."So labor costs for domestic cars are almost three times the cost of the foreign badges."

I'm going to give you another chance to either back up that idiotic statement or admit you were wrong. If you do neither then you are again proving you're a liar. So.....

1) Back it up

2) Admit you were wrong (there's no shame in that)

3) Be a liar

Which will it be?

What does the union tell you is right?

The correct answer will be the opposite.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What daveman tells you right is almost always wrong.

 

[DaGoose]

What does the union tell you is right?

The correct answer will be the opposite.

That's just the answer I would give too if I was getting my ass handed to me.

The bottom line, daveman, is that your views on unions are based on misconceptions. Because when it comes right down to it you cannot defend nearly anything you claim about unions. And when asked to back up your silly statements you resort to lies.

So yes...WE discovered that unions do not cause jobs to be moved overseas or even across the border. Because, as YOU said, "if we got rid of every union, we probably couldn't compete against Mexican labor." And that is exactly right.

WE also discovered that "labor costs for domestic cars are NOT almost three times the cost of the foreign badges." That was a baldfaced lie on your part.

Look, I will admit that there is plenty to slam unions about without you or anyone else having to resort to lying.

Now run along and continue playing.