American Unions -- Good or Bad for America?

[California Girl]

Those who traditionally worked in manufacturing can say a big 'thanks guys' to the Unions for driving jobs overseas by pricing American workers out of the market.

In truth, Unions have and are valuable - unfortunately, they - like politicians and business - is far too open to corruption.... It's interesting that we see the corruption only where we want to see it. The left mainly whine about corporations, the right about politicians and unions. Both sides are correct..... and yet, we keep on voting for them, we keep on allowing unions to run riot, we keep on accepting corrupt business practices.

Go figure.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I've only belonged to one union in my entire life. I was a member of a union for the workers of non-supervisory armed guards at a nuclear power plant. I had been employed there for a good length of time and the word came down that I was going to be laid off even though I was more senior than a good number of other members of the union. Sure enough, I was laid off and the union I belonged to did absolutely nothing to protect me or my job. I had been paying union dues for years and it did me absolutely no good in the long run. A funny thing about all of this though is about three weeks later I was contacted by the company and requested to return to work at the power plant as a supervisor of armed guards at the nuclear power plant and I was making just about twice as much money as before. I remained in this position for 10 years and then sold my other business and retired. So, from personal experience, unions have done me no good in spite of paying union dues for a good long time. In the long run, the union was worthless.

 

[George Costanza]

Those who traditionally worked in manufacturing can say a big 'thanks guys' to the Unions for driving jobs overseas by pricing American workers out of the market.

In truth, Unions have and are valuable - unfortunately, they - like politicians and business - is far too open to corruption.... It's interesting that we see the corruption only where we want to see it. The left mainly whine about corporations, the right about politicians and unions. Both sides are correct..... and yet, we keep on voting for them, we keep on allowing unions to run riot, we keep on accepting corrupt business practices.

Go figure.

I don't believe it. Totally agree.

Damn!!!!

 

[Foxfyre]

To Quantum Windbag: You see no present day value from unions? What about the workers at Walmarts who are so badly exploited?

To Defiant: How can a man or woman be liable for the sins of their great-grandparents? What about the sins of the wealthy business owners, who murdered and committed mayhem in the early days to bust unions? Are their great-grandchildren vicariously liable as well?

In the United States, Wal-mart employees have not been 'badly exploited'. There may be isolated pockets of mismanagement, but Wal-mart employs 1.8 million workers worldwide with about 1.3 million here in the United States. That's a relatively small percentage of American workers overall, so they must be offering something worthwhile to attract that many folks into their workforce or those folks would go elsewhere.

So how would one of the world's most successful retailers providing useful products at affordable prices to hundreds of millions of people benefit from a union. And would it really benefit newly unionized employees who were promised higher benefits and higher wages that eventually closed their store and made their jobs go away completely? It has happened in the auto industry. You think it couldn't happen at Wal-mart? And those who hang on might receive immediate gratification, but they would almost certainly lose their stock options through Wal-mart that has allowed many Wal-mart employees to retire much more comfortably than they otherwise would have been able to do.

How do you like your public schools since they unionized? Think the kids are getting more benefits? A better education?

Unions had their place to reform much of what was wrong in the work place. They are not beneficial however when they demand more than any employer is able to provide and/or sidetrack operations to the point that efficiency and effeciveness is comporomised. Sadly too many big unions these days do exactly that.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here is one of my experiences with unions.

A state run home for disabled men needed a minor bathroom renovation. Not a complete bathroom mind you. A tub shower unit was to be removed and the space was to be converted to a roll in shower for wheelchairs.

The union plumber shows up and leaves because there was a fan in the ceiling that needed to be removed. He and his assistant got his 4 hour minimum for doing nothing.

The union electrician came in and removed the fan (4 screws) and capped the wires (2 wire nuts) in about 10 minutes and he got his 4 hour minimum.

The plumber came back 3 days later and realized that a hole had to be cut in the dry wall so that he could access the pipes. He left and got his 4 hour minimum.

the union dry wall installers came in and cut a hole in the dry wall in about 5 minutes then left. They got their 4 hour minimum.

The Plumber came back the next week and removed the tub unit and retiled the stall. Three days later tiles started falling off the walls. It took 3 weeks before the tiles stopped falling off and every time the plumber got called back to fix even one tile, he got his 4 hour minimum.

The electrician needed to cut in a new box for a light switch but a the union dry wall guy was the only one allowed to cut a hole in the wall. the electrician left and got his 4 hour minimum. The it took another week to coordinate the dry wall guy and the electrician's schedules. They both came in. the electrician showed the dry wall guy where to cut the hole; the electrician then wired the switch and left 10 minutes later. they both got their 4 hour minimum.

In short to remove a tub, tile a partial wall and floor, install a new fan and light unit, move a switch and patch the drywall cost almost
$18, 000.

To compare I gutted a bathroom to the studs, installed all new plumbing, wiring, insulation, a new toilet and tiled the floor and shower for about $5000

That is what unions have done for us.

 

[rikules]

I am more'n willing to dialogue on the history of American unions, though organized labor history t'aint my speciality. However, I'd prefer it if we focused on the value (or loss of value) to the nation we receive from unions as they exist today.

In my mind,there are various sorts of unions and they have different effects.

Government worker unions. Teachers unions, postal worker unions, federal employee civil service/unions, police unions, American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, etc.

American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unskilled labor unions. I do not mean no one belonging to these unions has any skills; I mean that these unions admit unskilled workers. United Food and Commercial Workers International Union, Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union, Transport Workers Union of America, United Mine Workers of America, AFL-CIO, etc.

aflcio.org - America's Union Movement

Skilled Labor Unions. International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters, International Union of Elevator Constructors, etc.

International Brotherhood Of Electrical Workers - Int'l Office

If when posting, you mean that a good or bad effect follows from the activities of one type of union but not another, it'd be helpful if you clarified that.

they USE to be very good for the American working man/family

today they are;
a. run by bad guys
b. TOO good for union men/women
c. bad for non-union men/women

 

[Foxfyre]

It is true that there are good unions, and the employers actually welcome those because it relieves the employer of having to negotiate salary and benefit packages for every employee. The union does that for them. But it only works when the union is actually working hand in hand with the employer to achieve the best possible situation for all concerned. Give the employer efficiency and effectiveness from the employees and the employer prospers and is in a better position to work with the union to reward the employees for that efficiency and effectiveness. That's the way it is supposed to work.

But as Cgirl and others have pointed out, too often the unions lose sight of the commerce and industry that fuels the system and they work against it instead of with and for it. And then they become bad things. If sufficiently corrupt and self serving, they can even become evil.

There are very good unions out there still. But unfortunately there are too many bad ones.

 

[Madeline]

To Quantum Windbag: You see no present day value from unions? What about the workers at Walmarts who are so badly exploited?

Rather than unions there should be federal employment regulations in regard to salary/skill. Mandatory paid vacations, maximum overtime,hazardous duty pay/night shift, etc etc.
This should include anyone employed including the oil change guy, the nurse or the grass cutter.
Why should an electrician for Goodyear get $35 an hour and an electrician at Bobs AC and refrigeration get $15 ?

Several of my employees are in Costa Rica.They get a mandatory bonus by dec. 10 and it is the equivalent of one months salary,plus 12 days paid vacation, and several holidays including 3 days the week of Easter/aka/Semana Santa.I pay 26% of their salaries to the SS system. They pay 9%.
I'm required by law to keep a separate policy should they get hurt on the job that pays them 75% of their salary for as long as they are off. Up to six months.Govt owned insurance. $180/yr. per employee. Then regular disability through SS takes over.
SS covers them for any time off sick or injured off the job, after 3 days off. I have to pay 50% of their salary for the first 3 days. Their electric, internet, and telephone are free during those times.Socialism !
Pretty neat what a country can do when it's not interfering with everyone elses bidness and supporting IsNtReal.

Douger, I agree with you but we cannot even agree that every American worker should be paid the minimum wage. Every time that wage bill is debated, some Liberal will attack the exceptions from it granted to Agriculture, food service, etc. -- and every single time, the exemptions continue.

I think what you describe a la Costa Rico comes closer to social justice but if the US will not accept it, why are unions not a great alternative way for employees to protect themselves?

 

[syrenn]

To Quantum Windbag: You see no present day value from unions? What about the workers at Walmarts who are so badly exploited?

Rather than unions there should be federal employment regulations in regard to salary/skill. Mandatory paid vacations, maximum overtime,hazardous duty pay/night shift, etc etc.
This should include anyone employed including the oil change guy, the nurse or the grass cutter.
Why should an electrician for Goodyear get $35 an hour and an electrician at Bobs AC and refrigeration get $15 ?

Several of my employees are in Costa Rica.They get a mandatory bonus by dec. 10 and it is the equivalent of one months salary,plus 12 days paid vacation, and several holidays including 3 days the week of Easter/aka/Semana Santa.I pay 26% of their salaries to the SS system. They pay 9%.
I'm required by law to keep a separate policy should they get hurt on the job that pays them 75% of their salary for as long as they are off. Up to six months.Govt owned insurance. $180/yr. per employee. Then regular disability through SS takes over.
SS covers them for any time off sick or injured off the job, after 3 days off. I have to pay 50% of their salary for the first 3 days. Their electric, internet, and telephone are free during those times.Socialism !
Pretty neat what a country can do when it's not interfering with everyone elses bidness and supporting IsNtReal.

Douger, I agree with you but we cannot even agree that every American worker should be paid the minimum wage. Every time that wage bill is debated, some Liberal will attack the exceptions from it granted to Agriculture, food service, etc. -- and every single time, the exemptions continue.

I think what you describe a la Costa Rico comes closer to social justice but if the US will not accept it, why are unions not a great alternative way for employees to protect themselves?

Because unions are thugs. Because unions are pricing their members right out of the world market and taking the US right down with it. Where do unions get off TELLING employers that they MUST hire people willing to pay dues?

What about Employers being able to choose WHO works for them? Why should unions dictate who you hire? Why do you think you have the right to TELL an employer how much you should be paid and what benefits you should receive? What ever happened to the notions

If you don't like working where you and you think you are so unfairly treated, get another job.

 

[Madeline]

Just because you, and the unions, think they are exploited does not mean that they are. They have consistently voted against unionizing, so they must think they are doing pretty good. Why do you think the unions want the card check law?

Card check - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Very interesting stuff, Quantum Windbag. But do you deny Walmarts exploits its workers? Or that the company routinely engages in unfair labor practices? If Walmarts workers were unionized, wages would rise (one would expect) so that a living wage would be possible, at least for senior people.

Is this something we no longer desire for American workers?

Unions have brought American workers job security, benefits, safer working conditions, better wages.....like anyone else, they can go too far, but a middle class standard of living would not be possible for many American families without unions.

I'm not seeing the down side.

If Walmart denied them union elections then you might have a point. The truth of the matter is that the unions have tried to unionize Walmart quite a few times, and have always failed. That tells me more than the claims that Walmart has unfair labor practices and exploits their workers.

The card check is un-American, because it will deny workers the right to a secret ballot, and allow union thugs to intimidate workers to force them to join a union they do not want to join. If unions are so good for workers, why is almost every pension fund in the country that is run by a union in trouble? Why has union membership steadily declined in the private sector?

You don't get to look back and claim a right to exist simply because you did something good 100 years ago.

I agree, the US has changed considerably in 100 years. But I don't necessarially agree conditions have improved for workers. There was once widespread job security. People would begin and end their careers with a single employer. That era is over forever. My brother has given almost thirty years to a job owned by a succession of banks, and if he fails to make his quota of loans in any one month, he'll be placed on probation. Two, and he's fired. His employer has NOT adjusted his quota to reflect the falling credit worthiness of bank customers; they merely shove the pain of lagging profits onto bank line staffers.

That is an Injustice. Only a Union would be willing to protect my brother from such an Injustice. He has no hope of ever having such protection, of course, and if I have to bury him before he's sixty because of the stress this has caused him, is that right?

Seems to me, what we need is a revitalization of unions, not only for industries that have never known them before but also for market sectors that have been unionized for a very long time. The trouble, as I see it, is that running a Union is a very powerful position and the Humans we have elected to them have traditionally been pretty quickly corrupted by that power. For that, I'm not sure I have any answer. But the same is also true of Congress, and I am not advocating that we abandon the republic form of government.

 

[Madeline]

SFC Ollie wrote in part:

There never should have been anything called a Government Employees Union.

SFC Ollie, do you mean that civil service laws should have protected these employees? Or that they should not have job security?

Here in Cleveland, we're agonizing over how to adapt the schools and our teaching staff to the reality that our kidlets are not getting an education. The present thrust is merit-based pay and the Teachers' Union is having a VERY hard time accepting this. But what we also need is to fire incompetent teachers. We have no non-teaching jobs to offer them, and they harm our kidlets. THIS the Union fiercely opposes, and what is interesting is -- everyone, including the Union, admits that teacher incompetence is a serious problem.

I think some Unions lose sight of why they exist. Protecting workers who perform badly and cause harm from being fired was NEVER supposed to be their goal.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Here is one of my experiences with unions.

A state run home for disabled men needed a minor bathroom renovation. Not a complete bathroom mind you. A tub shower unit was to be removed and the space was to be converted to a roll in shower for wheelchairs.

The union plumber shows up and leaves because there was a fan in the ceiling that needed to be removed. He and his assistant got his 4 hour minimum for doing nothing.

The union electrician came in and removed the fan (4 screws) and capped the wires (2 wire nuts) in about 10 minutes and he got his 4 hour minimum.

The plumber came back 3 days later and realized that a hole had to be cut in the dry wall so that he could access the pipes. He left and got his 4 hour minimum.

the union dry wall installers came in and cut a hole in the dry wall in about 5 minutes then left. They got their 4 hour minimum.

The Plumber came back the next week and removed the tub unit and retiled the stall. Three days later tiles started falling off the walls. It took 3 weeks before the tiles stopped falling off and every time the plumber got called back to fix even one tile, he got his 4 hour minimum.

The electrician needed to cut in a new box for a light switch but a the union dry wall guy was the only one allowed to cut a hole in the wall. the electrician left and got his 4 hour minimum. The it took another week to coordinate the dry wall guy and the electrician's schedules. They both came in. the electrician showed the dry wall guy where to cut the hole; the electrician then wired the switch and left 10 minutes later. they both got their 4 hour minimum.

In short to remove a tub, tile a partial wall and floor, install a new fan and light unit, move a switch and patch the drywall cost almost
$18, 000.

To compare I gutted a bathroom to the studs, installed all new plumbing, wiring, insulation, a new toilet and tiled the floor and shower for about $5000

That is what unions have done for us.

I bet I could have got that job done for $3000 or less.

 

[SFC Ollie]

SFC Ollie wrote in part:

There never should have been anything called a Government Employees Union.

SFC Ollie, do you mean that civil service laws should have protected these employees? Or that they should not have job security?

Here in Cleveland, we're agonizing over how to adapt the schools and our teaching staff to the reality that our kidlets are not getting an education. The present thrust is merit-based pay and the Teachers' Union is having a VERY hard time accepting this. But what we also need is to fire incompetent teachers. We have no non-teaching jobs to offer them, and they harm our kidlets. THIS the Union fiercely opposes, and what is interesting is -- everyone, including the Union, admits that teacher incompetence is a serious problem.

I think some Unions lose sight of why they exist. Protecting workers who perform badly and cause harm from being fired was NEVER supposed to be their goal.

Madeline, the education problem is not restricted to Cleveland, It is all over Ohio. probably other states as well. I'm saying that someone who works for the government should be paid for the job they are doing and agree to do the job for what is offered.

Basically the same as anyone else. What ever happened to getting paid what you were worth? I came home after retiring from the service and started with a Home improvement company as a part time commissioned estimator. 6 months later I was the General Manager of the company. Making $150 a week less than the owner.

No union, and we had some of the best paid installers in town. Of course we also had one of the least paid. They were all paid what they were worth to the company. And none (except one HS kid one summer) were anywhere near minimum wage.

 

[Madeline]

SFC Ollie, I think government worker unions pose unique problems. On the whole, I don't value job security for such workers. I realize that a secretary should not lose her job because she did not make a campaign contribution to the incumbent, etc. I just think that sort of abuse can be dealt with, without the need for a union. And that the inability to fire government employees who do not perform hampers our society to a massive degree.

I'm not sure what should be done to fix education, but it seems obvious that firing bad teachers would be a great first step. I'm flabbergasted that the union here is so bold as to admit they will obstruct any effort to do so. If you cannot teach, then trying to occupy a teaching position harms the kidlets and our community. Learn to dance, or wait tables -- I don't care what you do next, but STOP teaching.

I think many people are anti-union because they feel that unions tend to protect and reward incompetent or lazy workers. That most likely is rarely true but when unions are seen to do exactly that so blatantly, it hurts all workers.

 

[Madeline]

Here is one of my experiences with unions.

A state run home for disabled men needed a minor bathroom renovation. Not a complete bathroom mind you. A tub shower unit was to be removed and the space was to be converted to a roll in shower for wheelchairs.

The union plumber shows up and leaves because there was a fan in the ceiling that needed to be removed. He and his assistant got his 4 hour minimum for doing nothing.

The union electrician came in and removed the fan (4 screws) and capped the wires (2 wire nuts) in about 10 minutes and he got his 4 hour minimum.

The plumber came back 3 days later and realized that a hole had to be cut in the dry wall so that he could access the pipes. He left and got his 4 hour minimum.

the union dry wall installers came in and cut a hole in the dry wall in about 5 minutes then left. They got their 4 hour minimum.

The Plumber came back the next week and removed the tub unit and retiled the stall. Three days later tiles started falling off the walls. It took 3 weeks before the tiles stopped falling off and every time the plumber got called back to fix even one tile, he got his 4 hour minimum.

The electrician needed to cut in a new box for a light switch but a the union dry wall guy was the only one allowed to cut a hole in the wall. the electrician left and got his 4 hour minimum. The it took another week to coordinate the dry wall guy and the electrician's schedules. They both came in. the electrician showed the dry wall guy where to cut the hole; the electrician then wired the switch and left 10 minutes later. they both got their 4 hour minimum.

In short to remove a tub, tile a partial wall and floor, install a new fan and light unit, move a switch and patch the drywall cost almost
$18, 000.

To compare I gutted a bathroom to the studs, installed all new plumbing, wiring, insulation, a new toilet and tiled the floor and shower for about $5000

That is what unions have done for us.

I bet I could have got that job done for $3000 or less.

Skull Pilot, this is a fairly common complaint about the Trade Unions. I am not sure exactly what should be done to address it; it seems to me that the rules which "allow" a plumber to cut a hole in dry wall need to be reviewed by someone other than the Drywallers Union. (Why is there even a drywallers' union in the first place? Can a person get hurt by poorly installed drywall?)

Just as doctors should not be reviewed and disciplined by a board composed only of other doctors, any group is going to take a sound idea (leave re-wiring to the electricians) and carry it to an extreme (nobody other than a member of the Electricians' Union can touch any part of the wiring) because that serves their greed.

But just as with doctors, we can't simply throw out the notion of allowing only a few people with skills to do electrical work. Badly wired houses and buildings can and have killed people. Nobody can become an electrican just by watching a lot of HGTV, any more than you can learn to cure illnesses by reading a lot over on WedMD.

 

[syrenn]

Here is one of my experiences with unions.

A state run home for disabled men needed a minor bathroom renovation. Not a complete bathroom mind you. A tub shower unit was to be removed and the space was to be converted to a roll in shower for wheelchairs.

The union plumber shows up and leaves because there was a fan in the ceiling that needed to be removed. He and his assistant got his 4 hour minimum for doing nothing.

The union electrician came in and removed the fan (4 screws) and capped the wires (2 wire nuts) in about 10 minutes and he got his 4 hour minimum.

The plumber came back 3 days later and realized that a hole had to be cut in the dry wall so that he could access the pipes. He left and got his 4 hour minimum.

the union dry wall installers came in and cut a hole in the dry wall in about 5 minutes then left. They got their 4 hour minimum.

The Plumber came back the next week and removed the tub unit and retiled the stall. Three days later tiles started falling off the walls. It took 3 weeks before the tiles stopped falling off and every time the plumber got called back to fix even one tile, he got his 4 hour minimum.

The electrician needed to cut in a new box for a light switch but a the union dry wall guy was the only one allowed to cut a hole in the wall. the electrician left and got his 4 hour minimum. The it took another week to coordinate the dry wall guy and the electrician's schedules. They both came in. the electrician showed the dry wall guy where to cut the hole; the electrician then wired the switch and left 10 minutes later. they both got their 4 hour minimum.

In short to remove a tub, tile a partial wall and floor, install a new fan and light unit, move a switch and patch the drywall cost almost
$18, 000.

To compare I gutted a bathroom to the studs, installed all new plumbing, wiring, insulation, a new toilet and tiled the floor and shower for about $5000

That is what unions have done for us.

I bet I could have got that job done for $3000 or less.

Skull Pilot, this is a fairly common complaint about the Trade Unions. I am not sure exactly what should be done to address it; it seems to me that the rules which "allow" a plumber to cut a hole in dry wall need to be reviewed by someone other than the Drywallers Union. (Why is there even a drywallers' union in the first place? Can a person get hurt by poorly installed drywall?)

Just as doctors should not be reviewed and disciplined by a board composed only of other doctors, any group is going to take a sound idea (leave re-wiring to the electricians) and carry it to an extreme (nobody other than a member of the Electricians' Union can touch any part of the wiring) because that serves their greed.

But just as with doctors, we can't simply throw out the notion of allowing only a few people with skills to do electrical work. Badly wired houses and buildings can and have killed people. Nobody can become an electrican just by watching a lot of HGTV, any more than you can learn to cure illnesses by reading a lot over on WedMD.

If Ollie had hired licensed non union general contractors the costs would have been substantially lower. And why do you think there is a drywallers union? MONEY.

What is this idea that only union workers can do constructions?

What is this false belief you have that union workers are more skilled or compitant then non union workers.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I used to hate getting government contracts, We once got the contract to replace the antique half round gutters on an old railway station. Had to use the half round to keep the historical perspective. The City had to pay almost double what we could have done the job for because we had to pay our guys "Prevailing wage". On that job the crew chief was paid an extra $12 an hour. I forget what the 2 workers got.

 

[Stainmaster]

 

[Foxfyre]

I used to hate getting government contracts, We once got the contract to replace the antique half round gutters on an old railway station. Had to use the half round to keep the historical perspective. The City had to pay almost double what we could have done the job for because we had to pay our guys "Prevailing wage". On that job the crew chief was paid an extra $12 an hour. I forget what the 2 workers got.

Hubby and I have been running a small business for the last several years providing various kinds of insurance services including premium audits. In auditing payroll for work comp and general liability audits, most companies keep separate records for union/government jobs and non-union/non-government jobs. The hourly wage, certain benefits, etc. are often artificially substantially higher for the union and government jobs. As it is easy to see in the separate records, the difference in fact is quite stunning.

As New Mexico has a lot of government work with its national labs, bases, and various other government installations, some of the contractors bid on and got job involving some of the stimulus money. They acknowledged that they payroll costs were a lot more for those jobs than for regular work, and they also charged considerably more for materials and processes to meet government specifications, and the job took significantly longer than it otherwise would. The government requires contractors, at least here. to be union or, if not union, to pay union scale.

Once the government job is completed, however, they go back to prevailing area wages, materials, processes, and materials.

Almost no new jobs were created even during the short term jobs. We the taxpayer just paid a whole lot more to get the government job done than we would if it had been done in the private sector. But that's the payoff to the Unions. Nobody will be allowed to compete against the Unions by underbidding union shops.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I used to hate getting government contracts, We once got the contract to replace the antique half round gutters on an old railway station. Had to use the half round to keep the historical perspective. The City had to pay almost double what we could have done the job for because we had to pay our guys "Prevailing wage". On that job the crew chief was paid an extra $12 an hour. I forget what the 2 workers got.

Hubby and I have been running a small business for the last several years providing various kinds of insurance services including premium audits. In auditing payroll for work comp and general liability audits, most companies keep separate records for union/government jobs and non-union/non-government jobs. The hourly wage, certain benefits, etc. are often artificially substantially higher for the union and government jobs. As it is easy to see in the separate records, the difference in fact is quite stunning.

As New Mexico has a lot of government work with its national labs, bases, and various other government installations, some of the contractors bid on and got job involving some of the stimulus money. They acknowledged that they payroll costs were a lot more for those jobs than for regular work, and they also charged considerably more for materials and processes to meet government specifications, and the job took significantly longer than it otherwise would. The government requires contractors, at least here. to be union or, if not union, to pay union scale.

Once the government job is completed, however, they go back to prevailing area wages, materials, processes, and materials.

Almost no new jobs were created even during the short term jobs. We the taxpayer just paid a whole lot more to get the government job done than we would if it had been done in the private sector. But that's the payoff to the Unions. Nobody will be allowed to compete against the Unions by underbidding union shops.

Exactly.