"American" Sedans - Do We Care?

[DGS49]

From all indications, Chrysler and Ford are getting out of the business of making and selling sedans.

While no one will miss the Taurus, Fusion, or Focus, the Chrysler 300 and the Dodge Charger are both interesting niche vehicles offering both a market-maximum wheelbase (120") and rear-wheel drive, as well as "muscle car" drivetrains not found anywhere else for under $40 grand.

Police departments, still complaining about the death of the Crown Vic, will shortly have to shift from Chargers to...what?...SUV's? for their baseline cop "cars"? This has already happened in my area, with most PD's now driving Ford Explorers.

The Koreans, Japanese, and to a lesser extent, Volkswagen have driven this move from FCA and Ford by producing sedans that are outstanding in every way, and they keep getting better, year after year. Fortunately, most of these "imports" are now mainly manufactured in the U.S., and carry as much U.S. content as, say, a Malibu.

Does anyone besides me believe that SUV's (and "Crossovers") are "dumb"? They are bigger, heavier, and slower than sedans, offer questionable "utility," handle poorly, get worse gas mileage and have many more parts to break over time, when compared to sedans. And very, very few people actually need AWD (available in some sedans anyway) with the advent of better tires, FWD, and all-speed traction control.

How long will GM hold out? Does anybody care?

 

[WinterBorn]

From all indications, Chrysler and Ford are getting out of the business of making and selling sedans.

While no one will miss the Taurus, Fusion, or Focus, the Chrysler 300 and the Dodge Charger are both interesting niche vehicles offering both a market-maximum wheelbase (120") and rear-wheel drive, as well as "muscle car" drivetrains not found anywhere else for under $40 grand.

Police departments, still complaining about the death of the Crown Vic, will shortly have to shift from Chargers to...what?...SUV's? for their baseline cop "cars"? This has already happened in my area, with most PD's now driving Ford Explorers.

The Koreans, Japanese, and to a lesser extent, Volkswagen have driven this move from FCA and Ford by producing sedans that are outstanding in every way, and they keep getting better, year after year. Fortunately, most of these "imports" are now mainly manufactured in the U.S., and carry as much U.S. content as, say, a Malibu.

Does anyone besides me believe that SUV's (and "Crossovers") are "dumb"? They are bigger, heavier, and slower than sedans, offer questionable "utility," handle poorly, get worse gas mileage and have many more parts to break over time, when compared to sedans. And very, very few people actually need AWD (available in some sedans anyway) with the advent of better tires, FWD, and all-speed traction control.

How long will GM hold out? Does anybody care?

I like an SUV, if I can’t have my truck. First and foremost, I like sitting up high so I can see better. I like the extra room. They are easier to get in and out of. They typically have better towing capacity.

As for AWD, I think plenty of people need it occasionally. Not for off-reading, but for bad or questionable roads or road conditions.

And the gas mileage isn’t as bad as it once was. Yeah, I spend a little more on gas. But nothing earthshaking

 

[Cellblock2429]

From all indications, Chrysler and Ford are getting out of the business of making and selling sedans.

While no one will miss the Taurus, Fusion, or Focus, the Chrysler 300 and the Dodge Charger are both interesting niche vehicles offering both a market-maximum wheelbase (120") and rear-wheel drive, as well as "muscle car" drivetrains not found anywhere else for under $40 grand.

Police departments, still complaining about the death of the Crown Vic, will shortly have to shift from Chargers to...what?...SUV's? for their baseline cop "cars"? This has already happened in my area, with most PD's now driving Ford Explorers.

The Koreans, Japanese, and to a lesser extent, Volkswagen have driven this move from FCA and Ford by producing sedans that are outstanding in every way, and they keep getting better, year after year. Fortunately, most of these "imports" are now mainly manufactured in the U.S., and carry as much U.S. content as, say, a Malibu.

Does anyone besides me believe that SUV's (and "Crossovers") are "dumb"? They are bigger, heavier, and slower than sedans, offer questionable "utility," handle poorly, get worse gas mileage and have many more parts to break over time, when compared to sedans. And very, very few people actually need AWD (available in some sedans anyway) with the advent of better tires, FWD, and all-speed traction control.

How long will GM hold out? Does anybody care?

/----/ Self driving cars may well end the need for personally owned cars. I've been driving and maintaining cars since 1968 and the thought of pressing an app on my phone and a car appears to drive me wherever I want without the hassle and expense of ownership is a welcome idea. I have relatives 20 years older than me who drive and shouldn't be behind the wheel. It will be my time one day.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

From all indications, Chrysler and Ford are getting out of the business of making and selling sedans.

While no one will miss the Taurus, Fusion, or Focus, the Chrysler 300 and the Dodge Charger are both interesting niche vehicles offering both a market-maximum wheelbase (120") and rear-wheel drive, as well as "muscle car" drivetrains not found anywhere else for under $40 grand.

Police departments, still complaining about the death of the Crown Vic, will shortly have to shift from Chargers to...what?...SUV's? for their baseline cop "cars"? This has already happened in my area, with most PD's now driving Ford Explorers.

The Koreans, Japanese, and to a lesser extent, Volkswagen have driven this move from FCA and Ford by producing sedans that are outstanding in every way, and they keep getting better, year after year. Fortunately, most of these "imports" are now mainly manufactured in the U.S., and carry as much U.S. content as, say, a Malibu.

Does anyone besides me believe that SUV's (and "Crossovers") are "dumb"? They are bigger, heavier, and slower than sedans, offer questionable "utility," handle poorly, get worse gas mileage and have many more parts to break over time, when compared to sedans. And very, very few people actually need AWD (available in some sedans anyway) with the advent of better tires, FWD, and all-speed traction control.

How long will GM hold out? Does anybody care?

RWD cars can take a lot more abuse than FWD cars. Cop cars need to be able hop curbs and drive across unpaved areas. You can snap a CV joint in FWD cars if you abuse them. SUVs do have higher ground clearance than sedans. Many SUVs are FWD. The Tahoe is a RWD. The LS V8 is an excellent engine. The Crown Vics could be driven for many hundreds of thousands of miles of heavy abuse. I think that they had a LEO package available with the Crown Vics. They had plenty of backseat room for suspects. The SUVs can do all of the things that the Crown Vics did and they also have better ground clearance.

 

[flewism]

All 5 vehicle mentioned in the OP are not profitable, Ford will still have the Focus, but it will be imported from China. Ford will still have the Mustang, and the Lincoln Continental is going still be here as they are profitable lines. Ford will have 7 SUV crossover lines and Lincoln five. All will be available either FWD or RWD and a AWD version on all. Gas mileage will not be an issue as hybrids versions will be available on all Ford/Lincoln vehicles except the Super duty trucks by 2021. Plus there is 3 all electric Fords in the works that will replace the C-Max hybrid, a small car, and small van similar in size to the Transit Connect and a small SUV/crossover think Eco sport size.

 

[Manonthestreet]

What happens during next energy crunch or economic downturn and all you have is gas guzzling 80 grand vehicles? To me it's foolish.

 

[Erinwltr]

What happens during next energy crunch or economic downturn and all you have is gas guzzling 80 grand vehicles? To me it's foolish.

Business cycle after business cycle, Americans fall for the same tired, car lineup strategies. I think I will hold on to my 4 banger manual and skip the over priced gas guzzlers.

 

[flewism]

What happens during next energy crunch or economic downturn and all you have is gas guzzling 80 grand vehicles? To me it's foolish.

Business cycle after business cycle, Americans fall for the same tired, car lineup strategies. I think I will hold on to my 4 banger manual and skip the over priced gas guzzlers.

If you want to be green ,yes by all means keep your manual 4-banger, but the 2021 F150 hybrid will get more miles per gallon and tow 8500lbs doing it.
That said just the manufacturing carbon footprint on any new vehicle make your manual 4-banger a greener vehicle.
Adding the hybrid option to any vehicle will add about $6500 to the cost.

 

[Cellblock2429]

From all indications, Chrysler and Ford are getting out of the business of making and selling sedans.

While no one will miss the Taurus, Fusion, or Focus, the Chrysler 300 and the Dodge Charger are both interesting niche vehicles offering both a market-maximum wheelbase (120") and rear-wheel drive, as well as "muscle car" drivetrains not found anywhere else for under $40 grand.

Police departments, still complaining about the death of the Crown Vic, will shortly have to shift from Chargers to...what?...SUV's? for their baseline cop "cars"? This has already happened in my area, with most PD's now driving Ford Explorers.

The Koreans, Japanese, and to a lesser extent, Volkswagen have driven this move from FCA and Ford by producing sedans that are outstanding in every way, and they keep getting better, year after year. Fortunately, most of these "imports" are now mainly manufactured in the U.S., and carry as much U.S. content as, say, a Malibu.

Does anyone besides me believe that SUV's (and "Crossovers") are "dumb"? They are bigger, heavier, and slower than sedans, offer questionable "utility," handle poorly, get worse gas mileage and have many more parts to break over time, when compared to sedans. And very, very few people actually need AWD (available in some sedans anyway) with the advent of better tires, FWD, and all-speed traction control.

How long will GM hold out? Does anybody care?

RWD cars can take a lot more abuse than FWD cars. Cop cars need to be able hop curbs and drive across unpaved areas. You can snap a CV joint in FWD cars if you abuse them. SUVs do have higher ground clearance than sedans. Many SUVs are FWD. The Tahoe is a RWD. The LS V8 is an excellent engine. The Crown Vics could be driven for many hundreds of thousands of miles of heavy abuse. I think that they had a LEO package available with the Crown Vics. They had plenty of backseat room for suspects. The SUVs can do all of the things that the Crown Vics did and they also have better ground clearance.

/----/ Maybe the Police will switch to Uber for their patrol cars.

 

[Erinwltr]

What happens during next energy crunch or economic downturn and all you have is gas guzzling 80 grand vehicles? To me it's foolish.

Business cycle after business cycle, Americans fall for the same tired, car lineup strategies. I think I will hold on to my 4 banger manual and skip the over priced gas guzzlers.

If you want to be green ,yes by all means keep your manual 4-banger, but the 2021 F150 hybrid will get more miles per gallon and tow 8500lbs doing it.
That said just the manufacturing carbon footprint on any new vehicle make your manual 4-banger a greener vehicle.
Adding the hybrid option to any vehicle will add about $6500 to the cost.

Isn't that 2021 F150 going to be a turbo 4 cylinder diesel? Or is it a 6? I don't tow so I'll keep my beater. Thanks for the info.

 

[Darkwind]

What happens during next energy crunch or economic downturn and all you have is gas guzzling 80 grand vehicles? To me it's foolish.

You pay more or you start driving that econobanger you've had in the garage for the past couple of years.

It's not rocket surgery.

 

[flewism]

From all indications, Chrysler and Ford are getting out of the business of making and selling sedans.

While no one will miss the Taurus, Fusion, or Focus, the Chrysler 300 and the Dodge Charger are both interesting niche vehicles offering both a market-maximum wheelbase (120") and rear-wheel drive, as well as "muscle car" drivetrains not found anywhere else for under $40 grand.

Police departments, still complaining about the death of the Crown Vic, will shortly have to shift from Chargers to...what?...SUV's? for their baseline cop "cars"? This has already happened in my area, with most PD's now driving Ford Explorers.

The Koreans, Japanese, and to a lesser extent, Volkswagen have driven this move from FCA and Ford by producing sedans that are outstanding in every way, and they keep getting better, year after year. Fortunately, most of these "imports" are now mainly manufactured in the U.S., and carry as much U.S. content as, say, a Malibu.

Does anyone besides me believe that SUV's (and "Crossovers") are "dumb"? They are bigger, heavier, and slower than sedans, offer questionable "utility," handle poorly, get worse gas mileage and have many more parts to break over time, when compared to sedans. And very, very few people actually need AWD (available in some sedans anyway) with the advent of better tires, FWD, and all-speed traction control.

How long will GM hold out? Does anybody care?

RWD cars can take a lot more abuse than FWD cars. Cop cars need to be able hop curbs and drive across unpaved areas. You can snap a CV joint in FWD cars if you abuse them. SUVs do have higher ground clearance than sedans. Many SUVs are FWD. The Tahoe is a RWD. The LS V8 is an excellent engine. The Crown Vics could be driven for many hundreds of thousands of miles of heavy abuse. I think that they had a LEO package available with the Crown Vics. They had plenty of backseat room for suspects. The SUVs can do all of the things that the Crown Vics did and they also have better ground clearance.

/----/ Maybe the Police will switch to Uber for their patrol cars.

Hey I was reading about robotic police In China at train stations and parks, with facial recognition software and Tasers.

They are also developing a fully robotic police station.

What happens during next energy crunch or economic downturn and all you have is gas guzzling 80 grand vehicles? To me it's foolish.

Business cycle after business cycle, Americans fall for the same tired, car lineup strategies. I think I will hold on to my 4 banger manual and skip the over priced gas guzzlers.

If you want to be green ,yes by all means keep your manual 4-banger, but the 2021 F150 hybrid will get more miles per gallon and tow 8500lbs doing it.
That said just the manufacturing carbon footprint on any new vehicle make your manual 4-banger a greener vehicle.
Adding the hybrid option to any vehicle will add about $6500 to the cost.

Isn't that 2021 F150 going to be a turbo 4 cylinder diesel? Or is it a 6? I don't tow so I'll keep my beater. Thanks for the info.

I honestly don't know, as I'm on the BCE side, body construction and engineering. Right now for 2018 we have a 3.0 V6 turbo-diesel available in the F150.

 

[WinterBorn]

What happens during next energy crunch or economic downturn and all you have is gas guzzling 80 grand vehicles? To me it's foolish.

Business cycle after business cycle, Americans fall for the same tired, car lineup strategies. I think I will hold on to my 4 banger manual and skip the over priced gas guzzlers.

If you want to be green ,yes by all means keep your manual 4-banger, but the 2021 F150 hybrid will get more miles per gallon and tow 8500lbs doing it.
That said just the manufacturing carbon footprint on any new vehicle make your manual 4-banger a greener vehicle.
Adding the hybrid option to any vehicle will add about $6500 to the cost.

Isn't that 2021 F150 going to be a turbo 4 cylinder diesel? Or is it a 6? I don't tow so I'll keep my beater. Thanks for the info.

Towing and seating tall people is why I drive a truck or an SUV.

 

[WinterBorn]

If American car makers are losing the sedan market, it is more an issue of the foreign companies making a better product.

 

[Manonthestreet]

What happens during next energy crunch or economic downturn and all you have is gas guzzling 80 grand vehicles? To me it's foolish.

You pay more or you start driving that econobanger you've had in the garage for the past couple of years.

It's not rocket surgery.

Was asking what happens to Ford for being unbalanced in a bad economy

 

[DGS49]

SUV'S are a hazard to everyone else on the road. At 2-1/2 tons, people in normal cars, especially economical cars are sitting ducks. Not to mention the visual aspect. All those women who want to sit high and see over all the cars are blocking the views of other people. Fuck 'em, right?

Carbon footprint, anyone?

 

[WinterBorn]

SUV'S are a hazard to everyone else on the road. At 2-1/2 tons, people in normal cars, especially economical cars are sitting ducks. Not to mention the visual aspect. All those women who want to sit high and see over all the cars are blocking the views of other people. Fuck 'em, right?

Carbon footprint, anyone?

If you choose to ride in a tiny tincan, that is not my fault. I want to more visibility to avoid the numerous idiots on the road. I also need a vehicle that can tow a boat and a camper. And we frequently take road trips of go camping with my family (adult children). I am 6'2" and both my sons are taller than I am. The idea of trying to cram us into a SmartCar or Prius is laughable.

If I didn't own a pickup, I would have an SUV. And my '17 Ram 1500 achieves the same criteria as an SUV would. And weighs roughly the same. So the folks who are buying the tiny cars won't be able to see over me either.

 

[Mr Natural]

I can’t figure out why someone would want to drive a truck if they didn’t have to.

 

[WinterBorn]

I can’t figure out why someone would want to drive a truck if they didn’t have to.

I can either drive a company truck or I can use my own truck and make an extra $750 a month plus they buy the gas and pay for oil changes.

And I like driving a truck.

 

[flewism]

All 5 vehicle mentioned in the OP are not profitable, Ford will still have the Focus, but it will be imported from China. Ford will still have the Mustang, and the Lincoln Continental is going still be here as they are profitable lines. Ford will have 7 SUV crossover lines and Lincoln five. All will be available either FWD or RWD and a AWD version on all. Gas mileage will not be an issue as hybrids versions will be available on all Ford/Lincoln vehicles except the Super duty trucks by 2021. Plus there is 3 all electric Fords in the works that will replace the C-Max hybrid, a small car, and small van similar in size to the Transit Connect and a small SUV/crossover think Eco sport size.

I was wrong the Continental is done after 2020,

I drive an AWD Escape an a commuter vehicle, 34 miles one way to work, have a F250 for hauling stuff and towing the boat, and trailers. Wife drives a larger AWD SUV which we use when it is more than the two of us. We live and a dirt road and have a lot of snow and drifting in the winter.