american public schools

[Hobbit]

My mom has been tracking the failings of the education system since she got into it. So far, she's got a perfect batting average at spotting bad ideas as soon as she hears them (middle school was one of the biggest). So here's a short list of what's wrong with the education system, according to me and my mom.

Lack of Discipline: When I went to a private school, what many would consider minor infractions would get you a paddling. We did NOT act up in class. We paid attention and learned. Now, spineless administrators and parents who won't accept that their kids aren't perfect ensure that teachers have little power over students who don't care about their grades. And thanks to "individuality," many things that would encourage discipline, or at least keep discipline problems out of the way of honor students, things like uniforms, reform school, and honors classes, are scrapped. I still can't believe the huge objections to uniforms. It has been shown that wearing a uniform gives a student a sense of propriety that leads to discipline, but the PTA always kills any uniform proposal in two seconds flat.

Political Correctness: Apparantly, placing children of different academic ability in different classes is descrimination. Funny how not playing the 6th string in basketball is not... Anyway, the idea that nobody can feel inferior to another is bullcrap, and I've seen it end many honors classes in schools, leading otherwise bright students to get bored and give up on education, forever affecting their lives.

False Measurements of Success: Those who want to measure a teacher's success always do so with standardized test scores, beacause they're too lazy to have somebody do a personal evaluation. This leads to false successes in high class neighborhoods where the parents actually make their kids try and hire tutors for them, and it leads to false failures in lower class areas where getting a 10th grader to actually learn the alphabet could be considered a miracle. Taking from an e-mail my mom got, imagine if dentists were done the same way teachers were. Some of the best dentists in the world work backwoods counties of rednecks and get so good because their patients' mouths are disaster areas and they manage to salvage them. However, they get more cavities reported, so they would get a bad grade and be forced to be observed by some Beverly Hills dentist whose patients have no cavities and who doesn't know the first thing about fixing a disaster mouth. Another example was a speaker who spoke to the teachers at my mom's school. He used to make grape jelly and said that teachers should be expected to produce smart students in the way he was expected to produce good jelly. If he didn't make good jelly, then he'd go out of business. My mom asked the guy, "And what would you do if over half of your shipments were sour grapes and you weren't allowed to return them. If we get a bad batch of students, we can't just send them back and ask for better." Things such as this is why a mediocre teacher to manages to always win teacher of the year in the county. She gets all honors classes.

Bad Parents: I don't really think I can add any in this catagory.

I think privatization really is the key. Subsidize it for lower income families so schools actually have to compete for business. I guarantee they'd shape up faster than any government regulation could.

 

[Working Man]

Home School your child. Mind you, it takes real dedication on the parent's part, and it would do you good to find a support group.

My 15 year old has been Home schooled his whole life and is in the 97% test average.

Yes, I'm proud.

Some of the liberals in the area want to make it so hard for parents to homeschool that it would become extinct. WHy?? As you have said, it can work when the parent is dedicated. The people opposed have a handful of scripted arguments, one is about diversity, the others are about testing standards, etc... Sure, if your kids is bunched into a classroom with gum snapping, bipping brats, perhaps the testing experience will not be conducive to good scores.. Or perhaps your kid is the loud one, or maybe the kid next to yours can't coun't so he/she is constantly borrowing your kid's calculator duing a test.. (One of the hosebags in my highschool used to do this. SHe would sit next to the guy,girl who had a calcualtor and borrow theirs.. It was distracting. Her parents had bucks, but they were too cheap to spend the money on a calculator for their kid.)

Testing is important. I hate taking tests, but it does help to force the mind to concentrate, and to deal with stress. Testing should be fair and honest no matter where given. But, I don't feel that kids that are homeschooled should be deemed less deserving, or viewed with skepticism.. If tested in a public forum, and the home schooled chiled tests above average, then MORE power to the parents and the kid, and kudos to Home Schooling...

I know a guy who has homeschooled just about all of his 10 kids. OK, so maybe he needs to use contraception, but since he isn't loading up the schools with his kids, it works.. But,, back to the subject. His kids are doing well. At least one is an officer in the military, flight training.. One doesn't get into the program unless they have had above average grades.. Home school does work, and can work extremely well as compared to public schooling.

As far as the argument against home school that HSing doesn't "afford the child a balanced vue on the world by limiting his/her exposure to the varied races/cultures that exist within the community",,,, YESSEREEEEEEEEEE!!! Hot damn,,, IT'S HOME SCHOOL FOR MY KID TOO!!!!! )

Explain to me how this has helped the US culture/society, and communities in the US over the last forty years.. OK, I'm waiting..

 

[Working Man]

Working Man,
Your comments regarding "study halls" and the like prove conclusively to me that you have absolutely no knowledge of this topic. "

Let me say this about teachers. I don't usually associate with them. They tend to look for something for nothing.. Many want to use others for what they know, or what they can do, in order to benefit the teacher. Maybe this is a learned trait that dates back to the years when teachers didn't make that much. They had to pander to make ends meet. This is not to say about all teachers. There are a few out there that I actually admire.

Fee free to part. But, no one will tell me that I didn't see what I did.
I remember a couple of the teachers too. One used used to give crotch shots to the male students..Sort of a covered Sharon Stone trick. The other ended up having sex with a student and left.. SHhhhhhh,, hush hush.. Sex ed was one aspect of Public school that I liked. The first of these two was a good teacher who I had for a class or two, the other had a reputation for being a good teacher, regardless of the rest.. But, both used the study halls to complete grading. ANd, there were plenty of male teachers who did the same..

OK, almost forgot. Had a couple of teachers who used to smoke like fiends and drink coffe till it oozed out.. Ever approach a teacher who had breath so bad that they could etch a chalk board??? These same to butes were important for me because they were math instructors. They had little time to help students since they were so busy in their own kids extra curicular sports activities that they could never stay late for extra help, even not honoring posted times. They weren't the only ones that did this either. Sounds of bitterness??? Sure.

OK, back on track. Study halls.. The teachers would grade papers, etc, during this time. Why shouldn't they? If a kid in the study hall didn't have questions, then I don't expect the teacher to sit there bored out of their minds.. When they were approached, they responded. I know what I saw, and what I experienced.

And while I am at it, not knowing anything about schools, teachers, etc,,,,there were those who would criticize the school administration left and right, in front of the students. THe big mouth of the bunch went on to become the area union president for the Federation of Teachers.. I could recall him saying how he "screwed the bastards", more than once.. Well, not every one is meant to be a teacher. Every time I see that a teacher gets a raise, while another person in the neighborhood gets laid off, I think of how that man's actions ended up screwing me.. Now I have to send more of my paycheck to the board of ed,,, while other expected public services dwindle due to budget cutbacks..

 

[Annie]

Working Man,
Your comments regarding "study halls" and the like prove conclusively to me that you have absolutely no knowledge of this topic. "

Let me say this about teachers. I don't usually associate with them. They tend to look for something for nothing.. Many want to use others for what they know, or what they can do, in order to benefit the teacher. Maybe this is a learned trait that dates back to the years when teachers didn't make that much. They had to pander to make ends meet. This is not to say about all teachers. There are a few out there that I actually admire.

Fee free to part. But, no one will tell me that I didn't see what I did.
I remember a couple of the teachers too. One used used to give crotch shots to the male students..Sort of a covered Sharon Stone trick. The other ended up having sex with a student and left.. SHhhhhhh,, hush hush.. Sex ed was one aspect of Public school that I liked. The first of these two was a good teacher who I had for a class or two, the other had a reputation for being a good teacher, regardless of the rest.. But, both used the study halls to complete grading. ANd, there were plenty of male teachers who did the same..

OK, almost forgot. Had a couple of teachers who used to smoke like fiends and drink coffe till it oozed out.. Ever approach a teacher who had breath so bad that they could etch a chalk board??? These same to butes were important for me because they were math instructors. They had little time to help students since they were so busy in their own kids extra curicular sports activities that they could never stay late for extra help, even not honoring posted times. They weren't the only ones that did this either. Sounds of bitterness??? Sure.

OK, back on track. Study halls.. The teachers would grade papers, etc, during this time. Why shouldn't they? If a kid in the study hall didn't have questions, then I don't expect the teacher to sit there bored out of their minds.. When they were approached, they responded. I know what I saw, and what I experienced.

And while I am at it, not knowing anything about schools, teachers, etc,,,,there were those who would criticize the school administration left and right, in front of the students. THe big mouth of the bunch went on to become the area union president for the Federation of Teachers.. I could recall him saying how he "screwed the bastards", more than once.. Well, not every one is meant to be a teacher. Every time I see that a teacher gets a raise, while another person in the neighborhood gets laid off, I think of how that man's actions ended up screwing me.. Now I have to send more of my paycheck to the board of ed,,, while other expected public services dwindle due to budget cutbacks..

I'm not going to argue salaries, the public schools in this area avg. nearly 50k, top out at over $110k. I think that is a good salary, as a parochial school teacher, I'd be thrilled with $35k.

That said, the only papers getting graded during 'study halls' are objective tests and papers. When I give an essay test to 25 students, they take a minimum of 4-5 hours to grade. Reports take at least double that, depending on topic and length. I check out the sources, to catch plagarism. I have to read through the whole stack, before grading, to catch cheating. Mind you, that is only one test/assignment.

Tests and reports tend to come at the same time, as there is continuity between the texts, and I mostly teach social studies. High school teachers run into this to an even greater extent, as they may have over 100 students doing the same test or reports at the same time. Granted they may have 'graders', but a good teacher is still going to go over each graded paper, as they know the students and what they covered in class.

I'm not whining by a long shot about teaching, I love it! Yet, I agree with Gem that most people, not just Working Man, do not understand how much time is required for those that are committed. I don't know if you caught some of the posts the other night, when I was at school writing the lesson plans for a sub? I was there from about 7-1:30. Mostly it was lesson plans, the rest of the time was getting the correct things hung for Constitution lessons, which I never seem to have time for during the regular day.

I usually am at school by 6 am; I allow students to come in my room from 7:30-8 to work on homework or get help or just talk-you'd be surprised how many want/need the last. Two days a week, I have a part-time job at a bank, the other 3 days I'll stay late for parents or kids, by appointment. I usually do about 2-3 hours of prep at home in the evening, daily.

 

[Nienna]

Home School your child. Mind you, it takes real dedication on the parent's part, and it would do you good to find a support group.

My 15 year old has been Home schooled his whole life and is in the 97% test average.

Yes, I'm proud.

I really wanted to do this when my oldest started kgarten. I have some friends who do. But my husband and I decided it was not the thing for us, for several reasons.

I do some home-schooling. For example, we want our kids to learn Creation Science, which they definitely won't get in a public school. I also give them music lessons in the summer. And I am constantly re-teaching things like grammar, spelling, DEPORTMENT, and general math & reading that the PS teachers just don't have time for, or maybe don't even know themselves. (I do see many grammar errors in letters sent home from school.)

 

[Nienna]

A comment directed toward Working Man...
Just like in any other profession, teaching has those who work hard, and those who milk the system. I know of a man who "teaches" Computers at the local middle school. He goofs off & jokes with the kids all day, gives out easy work, and does take off his full two months in the summer. I don't see him working too much overtime.

However, I know of many teachers who go way above and beyond. My sister is a special ed teacher in kgarten. The stuff she has to deal with is unbelievable, and I'm talking before she can even THINK of getting those kids to concentrate on their a-b-cs. She is a surrogate mother to those kids, not to mention having 3 of her own. Her husband doesn't make much $$, so she pretty much supports the family on her starting income, and then is required to have her Master's in a specified period of time or risk losing her job. She makes in the low 30s, and they don't have tuition reimbursement! She drops her kids off at about 7am, picks them up at about 5pm. Except two nights a week when she has class herself; then she doesn't get home until about 9pm. She has extremely little time to be with her own kids, help with their homework, drive them to extracurriculars. And the emotional baggage from the students' families is tough, too.

As for her summers, they are usually spent doing lesson plans (which she can do from home) and going to continuing education classes or in-service days. You don't just punch a clock when you are a teacher.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

$63000/year which is based on 1260hrs is not a bad deal sport..Summers off. Every freakin holiday one can think of, and then some that aren't even on the books yet.. Yeah, right... They are underpaid..

Now get back to the custodian. He/she is cleaning up after those dirtly little bastards. I know. I did it for a couple of years. And some of the teachers are F'n slobs too. I was going to call them pigs, but pigs have a purpose in life. The "building engineers" do more than just clean the p, s, and puke from the walls and floors.. They clean the gum and crud so that the learning environment is more hospitable to learning.... And they do it for the regular hours be they 35,37, or 40 hours per week/2080 hours per year, if they are lucky. They too get sick and have to report when the weather is bad. So I don't begrudge some of the "janitors" from making a decent wage.. Would you prefer to cut their salaires so just the less than stellar(molesters, etc.) can only afford to walk the halls with your kids?

I have very little faith in the kids of "today". To be honest and fair, my generation was the group who had grandparents in WW2,, so my age group has dropped the ball too. I think our parents made it too easy for us, and OUR generation has produced the dopes who have bread SUPERDOPES...

I think there is a link between the jobs/opportunities that used to be in this country, and the quality of student/citizen who lived here. As the jobs moved away, so did the quality of youth/citizenship. OK, to that link about jobs I mentioned before,, let's add in,, What link is there, statisicaly, that could be used to describe/give reason for, the number of unwed single parents that have fatherless children in this country? At what date in the US history did the social acceptence of the single parent, and demise of jobs/citizenship occur?? Seems as we gained one, we lost the other(s).

And before I forget,, has anybody heard about the growth industry that is upon us in this country.. IT IS TUTORING!!! Parents are paying top dollar to get their kids up to par in all acedemic areas. But wait,, didn't we start off with the most expensive public education system yet known to this country?? Are we not spending billions on public ed every year in the US?? Hooking up computers, and Ipods in the classroom? Importing kids from other neighborhoods so that our kids can have cultural diversity, hence a more rounded education?????? Hasn't this all been enough?? But now, our kids are behind so therefore they need MORE teachers/tutors???

How about less cultural diversity, less TV, less IPODs, and yes, less Internet for the sake of actually spending time STUDYING. Leave the baggy pants at home, hoemee,,,,,, and leave your bellybutton and thong buried under your skirt you hoe!!! Dress codes. Our public schools need dress codes... Oh, yes, I forgot, Cell phones. A plague on the people who made them so popular, and on those who push them onto our kids.

As far as the future goes, there isn't any in the United States. If I had to base my future on what walks the halls of our public schools, I am screwed too.

Well, sport, I suppose it depends on where you live. The teachers around here don't make anywhere near $63,000 a year, more like $26,000 on average. I'll add that even $63,000 a year in some places is chicken feed. There are areas where teachers should be getting combat pay for what they have to deal with, and 1260 hours is only classroom time, that doesn't include time spent at home going over tests, homework, meetings with parents, etc.

 

[Cynic-American]

Absolutely correct, but incomplete.

I would add:
American public schools suck because school districts are afraid of lawsuits, and therefore do not impose effective discipline.

true, and another problem is teachers who are only there for tenure, not to teach anything.

 

[Shogun]

I say pay the kids.

teach them what it means to perform for money.

Instead of teacher raises in alternating years use the money to develop a system that provided positive reinformcement for learning. Hell, one could get really creative and not only pay them for performance but only give them half of what they earn while the other half gets put into a college saving plan which can only be drawn after graduating. Lose it if you quit school. Use it for college or to buy a house. shit like that.

I bet that kids would not only show greater improvment in their learning efforts BUT would better understand what it means to work for self autonomy when they become adults.