CDZ American Muslim's and Assimilation

1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?
I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.
There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.
The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?
In regard to European Muslim immigration and the US, there stark differences that effect assimilation..
  • There are over 44 million Muslims in Europe and only 3 million in the US according to Pew Research. There are almost twice as many Muslims in France as the US.
  • The United States has a much less unionized and regulated labor force than much of Europe, which speeds immigrants’ economic success and assimilation.
  • Muslims in America are seen as much less likely to engage in violence than in European countries which makes integration in the workforce and all society easier.
  • The US does not have the many culture clashes that exist in Europe.This allows outside cultures to more easily engage in social institutions including education and the workplace.
  • American immigrant communities are less secluded than in Europe. They are widely dispersed which makes integration and assimilation easier.
  • Muslims in America originate from 77 different countries with no major predominate group. Newcomers to the United States have to engage with other groups, peoples, and cultures. In Europe, it's easy for newcomers to congregate in their own cultural group, exacerbating existing cultural tensions and slowing assimilation.
  • The US is much more selective than Europe. This translates into higher skilled, better educated, and more affluent immigrants. These characteristics make it much easier to integrate into the population.
  • The US is much more selective when it comes to refugees than Europe. The process is long and arduous. Once selected, the government decides where the refuges are placed and are given a great deal of support compared to Europe. This results in the refugees assimilating better than in Europe but also increases the likelihood that they will stay in the US permanently.

Five Differences Between the U.S. and Europe on Counterterrorism
 
1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?
I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.
There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.
The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?
In regard to European Muslim immigration and the US, there stark differences that effect assimilation..
  • There are over 44 million Muslims in Europe and only 3 million in the US according to Pew Research. There are almost twice as many Muslims in France as the US.
  • The United States has a much less unionized and regulated labor force than much of Europe, which speeds immigrants’ economic success and assimilation.
  • Muslims in America are seen as much less likely to engage in violence than in European countries which makes integration in the workforce and all society easier.
  • The US does not have the many culture clashes that exist in Europe.This allows outside cultures to more easily engage in social institutions including education and the workplace.
  • American immigrant communities are less secluded than in Europe. They are widely dispersed which makes integration and assimilation easier.
  • Muslims in America originate from 77 different countries with no major predominate group. Newcomers to the United States have to engage with other groups, peoples, and cultures. In Europe, it's easy for newcomers to congregate in their own cultural group, exacerbating existing cultural tensions and slowing assimilation.
  • The US is much more selective than Europe. This translates into higher skilled, better educated, and more affluent immigrants. These characteristics make it much easier to integrate into the population.
  • The US is much more selective when it comes to refugees than Europe. The process is long and arduous. Once selected, the government decides where the refuges are placed and are given a great deal of support compared to Europe. This results in the refugees assimilating better than in Europe but also increases the likelihood that they will stay in the US permanently.

Five Differences Between the U.S. and Europe on Counterterrorism
My neighborhood has seen a large influx of Muslim immigrants over the last fifteen years or so. Prior to that it was Asian and Russian waves, supplanting the AA, Hispanic and Jewish waves of the early to mid twentieth century. In general the ME immigrants have been accepted, but their plans to build a mosque a few blocks from my house have been controversial, to say the least. People here, if they were asked to explain their negative attitudes, would start at Belgium and work their way backwards from there. "Look what's happening in Europe," is common refrain. The people here are raising families and are pretty stable homeowners, and obviously need churches and restaurants and grocery stores, as has every other group who have come to live in this neighborhood. The fact that the hostility is not completely rational doesn't make it any the less real, nor is it rational to suggest that there is no reason for it at all.
 
How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?
I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.
There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.
The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?
In regard to European Muslim immigration and the US, there stark differences that effect assimilation..
  • There are over 44 million Muslims in Europe and only 3 million in the US according to Pew Research. There are almost twice as many Muslims in France as the US.
  • The United States has a much less unionized and regulated labor force than much of Europe, which speeds immigrants’ economic success and assimilation.
  • Muslims in America are seen as much less likely to engage in violence than in European countries which makes integration in the workforce and all society easier.
  • The US does not have the many culture clashes that exist in Europe.This allows outside cultures to more easily engage in social institutions including education and the workplace.
  • American immigrant communities are less secluded than in Europe. They are widely dispersed which makes integration and assimilation easier.
  • Muslims in America originate from 77 different countries with no major predominate group. Newcomers to the United States have to engage with other groups, peoples, and cultures. In Europe, it's easy for newcomers to congregate in their own cultural group, exacerbating existing cultural tensions and slowing assimilation.
  • The US is much more selective than Europe. This translates into higher skilled, better educated, and more affluent immigrants. These characteristics make it much easier to integrate into the population.
  • The US is much more selective when it comes to refugees than Europe. The process is long and arduous. Once selected, the government decides where the refuges are placed and are given a great deal of support compared to Europe. This results in the refugees assimilating better than in Europe but also increases the likelihood that they will stay in the US permanently.

Five Differences Between the U.S. and Europe on Counterterrorism
My neighborhood has seen a large influx of Muslim immigrants over the last fifteen years or so. Prior to that it was Asian and Russian waves, supplanting the AA, Hispanic and Jewish waves of the early to mid twentieth century. In general the ME immigrants have been accepted, but their plans to build a mosque a few blocks from my house have been controversial, to say the least. People here, if they were asked to explain their negative attitudes, would start at Belgium and work their way backwards from there. "Look what's happening in Europe," is common refrain. The people here are raising families and are pretty stable homeowners, and obviously need churches and restaurants and grocery stores, as has every other group who have come to live in this neighborhood. The fact that the hostility is not completely rational doesn't make it any the less real, nor is it rational to suggest that there is no reason for it at all.
If the neighborhood finds Muslims are acceptable, then why should they object to a Mosque?
 
I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.
There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.
The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?
In regard to European Muslim immigration and the US, there stark differences that effect assimilation..
  • There are over 44 million Muslims in Europe and only 3 million in the US according to Pew Research. There are almost twice as many Muslims in France as the US.
  • The United States has a much less unionized and regulated labor force than much of Europe, which speeds immigrants’ economic success and assimilation.
  • Muslims in America are seen as much less likely to engage in violence than in European countries which makes integration in the workforce and all society easier.
  • The US does not have the many culture clashes that exist in Europe.This allows outside cultures to more easily engage in social institutions including education and the workplace.
  • American immigrant communities are less secluded than in Europe. They are widely dispersed which makes integration and assimilation easier.
  • Muslims in America originate from 77 different countries with no major predominate group. Newcomers to the United States have to engage with other groups, peoples, and cultures. In Europe, it's easy for newcomers to congregate in their own cultural group, exacerbating existing cultural tensions and slowing assimilation.
  • The US is much more selective than Europe. This translates into higher skilled, better educated, and more affluent immigrants. These characteristics make it much easier to integrate into the population.
  • The US is much more selective when it comes to refugees than Europe. The process is long and arduous. Once selected, the government decides where the refuges are placed and are given a great deal of support compared to Europe. This results in the refugees assimilating better than in Europe but also increases the likelihood that they will stay in the US permanently.

Five Differences Between the U.S. and Europe on Counterterrorism
My neighborhood has seen a large influx of Muslim immigrants over the last fifteen years or so. Prior to that it was Asian and Russian waves, supplanting the AA, Hispanic and Jewish waves of the early to mid twentieth century. In general the ME immigrants have been accepted, but their plans to build a mosque a few blocks from my house have been controversial, to say the least. People here, if they were asked to explain their negative attitudes, would start at Belgium and work their way backwards from there. "Look what's happening in Europe," is common refrain. The people here are raising families and are pretty stable homeowners, and obviously need churches and restaurants and grocery stores, as has every other group who have come to live in this neighborhood. The fact that the hostility is not completely rational doesn't make it any the less real, nor is it rational to suggest that there is no reason for it at all.
If the neighborhood finds Muslims are acceptable, then why should they object to a Mosque?
Because people are complex, flawed and driven by fears? In the case of Muslim immigrants/refugees/extremists, there are legitimate and illegitimate causes for concern. Ours is an intolerant society. Theirs is a more intolerant society. I can understand neither panic nor unquestioning acceptance.
 
1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No

Stop accepting Western money and rejecting Western values. Embrace modernity. No more honor killings. No more Sharia courts. Don't come here to live unless you want to live here, Do not try to make this country into the place you left.

How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?
I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.
There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.
The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?
In regard to European Muslim immigration and the US, there stark differences that effect assimilation..
  • There are over 44 million Muslims in Europe and only 3 million in the US according to Pew Research. There are almost twice as many Muslims in France as the US.
  • The United States has a much less unionized and regulated labor force than much of Europe, which speeds immigrants’ economic success and assimilation.
  • Muslims in America are seen as much less likely to engage in violence than in European countries which makes integration in the workforce and all society easier.
  • The US does not have the many culture clashes that exist in Europe.This allows outside cultures to more easily engage in social institutions including education and the workplace.
  • American immigrant communities are less secluded than in Europe. They are widely dispersed which makes integration and assimilation easier.
  • Muslims in America originate from 77 different countries with no major predominate group. Newcomers to the United States have to engage with other groups, peoples, and cultures. In Europe, it's easy for newcomers to congregate in their own cultural group, exacerbating existing cultural tensions and slowing assimilation.
  • The US is much more selective than Europe. This translates into higher skilled, better educated, and more affluent immigrants. These characteristics make it much easier to integrate into the population.
  • The US is much more selective when it comes to refugees than Europe. The process is long and arduous. Once selected, the government decides where the refuges are placed and are given a great deal of support compared to Europe. This results in the refugees assimilating better than in Europe but also increases the likelihood that they will stay in the US permanently.

Five Differences Between the U.S. and Europe on Counterterrorism

Okay, so the final five points in your post come straight from the Huff Post, which sourced its remarks on Bloomberg View, which in turn based its comments on the findings of the OECD's Indicators of Immigrant Integration 2015. For now at least, as I haven't read the thing, I'm going to assume the OECD knows how to conduct a study and that its study fairly presents the scope of inferences that may be drawn from it. Thus I'm not going to address the final five bullet points.

Red:
I think there's a reasonable case to be made that unions contribute to more successful integration into the societies the join in their new home countries, not less. In "The role of US unions in the civic integration of immigrant workers," which is a summary review of the nature and extent of existing scholarly literature on immigration integration into native/resident populations, sociologist Dr. Dan Cornfield of Vanderbilt University notes several works that show unions contribute to more successful integration of immigrants than less. He refers to two phenomena that make that so, including the ideas of unions as "mutual aid societies" and the theory of segmented assimilation (TSA). Dr. Cornfield notes too that little to no research has been conducted specifically on the matter of the role of unions in integrating immigrants into any given society. (I'm sure plenty of "armchair researchers" have opined on it, but that's hardly credible work. LOL)

(It's worth noting that the research conducted by Xie and Greenman cast doubt on the validity of the TSA; however, in "Segmented Assimilation Revisited: Types of Acculturation and Socioeconomic Mobility in Young Adulthood," Waters et al paint a different picture when applying the TSA's ideas to a population of immigrants in NYC.)

I have not yet read Dr. Cornfield's book or the one that resulted from the paper by him and referenced above, Mobilizing against Inequality Unions, Immigrant Workers, and the Crisis of Capitalism.

In "MOBILIZING AGAINST INEQUALITY Unions, Immigrant Workers, and the Crisis of Capitalism," Cornell's Dr. Lowell Turner provides multiple examples from the U.S. and Europe whereby unions facilitated immigrant assimilation more so than hindered it. He, like Dr. Cornfield, notes however that the culture of identity politics that pervades contemporary discourse acts to impugn the aim of immigration acculturation. Neither, to the extent that i've read their works (I haven't read Cornfield's book) has shown which factors predominate with regard to the overall societal integration experience and efforts of immigrants and their advocates.

The point I'm making, at least right now, is that, for me at least, it's not been established whether unions aid or hinder assimilation overall; however, in isolation, it appears that they hinder more than harm.


Blue:
There's little doubt in my mind that Muslims may so seen, perceived, that way. The remarks I've read on this forum and heard in recent political "debate," more aptly called conjecture as go my standards of what is cogent and credible, make that much clear. The facts of who actually commits what forms of violence, and specifically what often gets referred to as terrorism, however, just does not suggest that Muslims and Islam have had much to do with the large majority of it, in both the U.S. and Europe over the course of the past 30+ years. In contrast, Muslims have a good bit to do with the terrorism that most often gets reported by easily accessed news and information publishers.

  • European Union Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2015 -- From 2011 to 2014, of the 738 terrorist acts committed, eight were religiously inspired. In the document, "religiously inspired" was stipulated to include "Islamic extremists, as well as Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists who were motivated by their religion to hurt others."
As goes one's engagement in violence, most especially the undefined form we call terrorism, it makes sense that one of a mind to commit such an act probably isn't keen, at least not genuinely so, to integrate into the society s/he's about to harm. That said, that's a choice made by the individual not to integrate which obviates the relevance of the comparative ease or difficulty of doing so.
 
How many Muslim honor killings have occurred in the US, and allowed to go unprosecuted? How many Sharia courts exist in the US, lawfully?
I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.
There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.
The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?
In regard to European Muslim immigration and the US, there stark differences that effect assimilation..
  • There are over 44 million Muslims in Europe and only 3 million in the US according to Pew Research. There are almost twice as many Muslims in France as the US.
  • The United States has a much less unionized and regulated labor force than much of Europe, which speeds immigrants’ economic success and assimilation.
  • Muslims in America are seen as much less likely to engage in violence than in European countries which makes integration in the workforce and all society easier.
  • The US does not have the many culture clashes that exist in Europe.This allows outside cultures to more easily engage in social institutions including education and the workplace.
  • American immigrant communities are less secluded than in Europe. They are widely dispersed which makes integration and assimilation easier.
  • Muslims in America originate from 77 different countries with no major predominate group. Newcomers to the United States have to engage with other groups, peoples, and cultures. In Europe, it's easy for newcomers to congregate in their own cultural group, exacerbating existing cultural tensions and slowing assimilation.
  • The US is much more selective than Europe. This translates into higher skilled, better educated, and more affluent immigrants. These characteristics make it much easier to integrate into the population.
  • The US is much more selective when it comes to refugees than Europe. The process is long and arduous. Once selected, the government decides where the refuges are placed and are given a great deal of support compared to Europe. This results in the refugees assimilating better than in Europe but also increases the likelihood that they will stay in the US permanently.

Five Differences Between the U.S. and Europe on Counterterrorism

Okay, so the final five points in your post come straight from the Huff Post, which sourced its remarks on Bloomberg View, which in turn based its comments on the findings of the OECD's Indicators of Immigrant Integration 2015. For now at least, as I haven't read the thing, I'm going to assume the OECD knows how to conduct a study and that its study fairly presents the scope of inferences that may be drawn from it. Thus I'm not going to address the final five bullet points.

Red:
I think there's a reasonable case to be made that unions contribute to more successful integration into the societies the join in their new home countries, not less. In "The role of US unions in the civic integration of immigrant workers," which is a summary review of the nature and extent of existing scholarly literature on immigration integration into native/resident populations, sociologist Dr. Dan Cornfield of Vanderbilt University notes several works that show unions contribute to more successful integration of immigrants than less. He refers to two phenomena that make that so, including the ideas of unions as "mutual aid societies" and the theory of segmented assimilation (TSA). Dr. Cornfield notes too that little to no research has been conducted specifically on the matter of the role of unions in integrating immigrants into any given society. (I'm sure plenty of "armchair researchers" have opined on it, but that's hardly credible work. LOL)

(It's worth noting that the research conducted by Xie and Greenman cast doubt on the validity of the TSA; however, in "Segmented Assimilation Revisited: Types of Acculturation and Socioeconomic Mobility in Young Adulthood," Waters et al paint a different picture when applying the TSA's ideas to a population of immigrants in NYC.)

I have not yet read Dr. Cornfield's book or the one that resulted from the paper by him and referenced above, Mobilizing against Inequality Unions, Immigrant Workers, and the Crisis of Capitalism.

In "MOBILIZING AGAINST INEQUALITY Unions, Immigrant Workers, and the Crisis of Capitalism," Cornell's Dr. Lowell Turner provides multiple examples from the U.S. and Europe whereby unions facilitated immigrant assimilation more so than hindered it. He, like Dr. Cornfield, notes however that the culture of identity politics that pervades contemporary discourse acts to impugn the aim of immigration acculturation. Neither, to the extent that i've read their works (I haven't read Cornfield's book) has shown which factors predominate with regard to the overall societal integration experience and efforts of immigrants and their advocates.

The point I'm making, at least right now, is that, for me at least, it's not been established whether unions aid or hinder assimilation overall; however, in isolation, it appears that they hinder more than harm.


Blue:
There's little doubt in my mind that Muslims may so seen, perceived, that way. The remarks I've read on this forum and heard in recent political "debate," more aptly called conjecture as go my standards of what is cogent and credible, make that much clear. The facts of who actually commits what forms of violence, and specifically what often gets referred to as terrorism, however, just does not suggest that Muslims and Islam have had much to do with the large majority of it, in both the U.S. and Europe over the course of the past 30+ years. In contrast, Muslims have a good bit to do with the terrorism that most often gets reported by easily accessed news and information publishers.

  • European Union Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2015 -- From 2011 to 2014, of the 738 terrorist acts committed, eight were religiously inspired. In the document, "religiously inspired" was stipulated to include "Islamic extremists, as well as Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists who were motivated by their religion to hurt others."
As goes one's engagement in violence, most especially the undefined form we call terrorism, it makes sense that one of a mind to commit such an act probably isn't keen, at least not genuinely so, to integrate into the society s/he's about to harm. That said, that's a choice made by the individual not to integrate which obviates the relevance of the comparative ease or difficulty of doing so.
I think people in the US believe Muslims are less violent than in Europe because in the US there are less terrorist attacks, less violent, and mostly homegrown as opposed to organized attacks by terrorist cells or networks of terrorists. In the US, the Muslim population is much less than in Europe, 3 million or 1% versus 25 to 40 million or 4% to 5% of the population. Also, the growth rate of Muslims in Europe due to refugee crisis is much higher than in the US which creates problems.
 
I have no idea. The DOJ calls honor killings a growing and an under-reported phenomenon. How much of a role does that play in people's perception of how well Muslims have assimilated into Western culture? I feel confident in saying that it can't help. How much it hurts is arguable.

If assimilation is your goal, eliminating differences is the only way to achieve it. Not all differences, but the most glaring and problematic ones should probably be targeted first. Running over your daughter with your car because she was just gettin' too "modern" for your tastes may not be commonplace, but it does tend to linger in the memory.
There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.
The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?
In regard to European Muslim immigration and the US, there stark differences that effect assimilation..
  • There are over 44 million Muslims in Europe and only 3 million in the US according to Pew Research. There are almost twice as many Muslims in France as the US.
  • The United States has a much less unionized and regulated labor force than much of Europe, which speeds immigrants’ economic success and assimilation.
  • Muslims in America are seen as much less likely to engage in violence than in European countries which makes integration in the workforce and all society easier.
  • The US does not have the many culture clashes that exist in Europe.This allows outside cultures to more easily engage in social institutions including education and the workplace.
  • American immigrant communities are less secluded than in Europe. They are widely dispersed which makes integration and assimilation easier.
  • Muslims in America originate from 77 different countries with no major predominate group. Newcomers to the United States have to engage with other groups, peoples, and cultures. In Europe, it's easy for newcomers to congregate in their own cultural group, exacerbating existing cultural tensions and slowing assimilation.
  • The US is much more selective than Europe. This translates into higher skilled, better educated, and more affluent immigrants. These characteristics make it much easier to integrate into the population.
  • The US is much more selective when it comes to refugees than Europe. The process is long and arduous. Once selected, the government decides where the refuges are placed and are given a great deal of support compared to Europe. This results in the refugees assimilating better than in Europe but also increases the likelihood that they will stay in the US permanently.

Five Differences Between the U.S. and Europe on Counterterrorism

Okay, so the final five points in your post come straight from the Huff Post, which sourced its remarks on Bloomberg View, which in turn based its comments on the findings of the OECD's Indicators of Immigrant Integration 2015. For now at least, as I haven't read the thing, I'm going to assume the OECD knows how to conduct a study and that its study fairly presents the scope of inferences that may be drawn from it. Thus I'm not going to address the final five bullet points.

Red:
I think there's a reasonable case to be made that unions contribute to more successful integration into the societies the join in their new home countries, not less. In "The role of US unions in the civic integration of immigrant workers," which is a summary review of the nature and extent of existing scholarly literature on immigration integration into native/resident populations, sociologist Dr. Dan Cornfield of Vanderbilt University notes several works that show unions contribute to more successful integration of immigrants than less. He refers to two phenomena that make that so, including the ideas of unions as "mutual aid societies" and the theory of segmented assimilation (TSA). Dr. Cornfield notes too that little to no research has been conducted specifically on the matter of the role of unions in integrating immigrants into any given society. (I'm sure plenty of "armchair researchers" have opined on it, but that's hardly credible work. LOL)

(It's worth noting that the research conducted by Xie and Greenman cast doubt on the validity of the TSA; however, in "Segmented Assimilation Revisited: Types of Acculturation and Socioeconomic Mobility in Young Adulthood," Waters et al paint a different picture when applying the TSA's ideas to a population of immigrants in NYC.)

I have not yet read Dr. Cornfield's book or the one that resulted from the paper by him and referenced above, Mobilizing against Inequality Unions, Immigrant Workers, and the Crisis of Capitalism.

In "MOBILIZING AGAINST INEQUALITY Unions, Immigrant Workers, and the Crisis of Capitalism," Cornell's Dr. Lowell Turner provides multiple examples from the U.S. and Europe whereby unions facilitated immigrant assimilation more so than hindered it. He, like Dr. Cornfield, notes however that the culture of identity politics that pervades contemporary discourse acts to impugn the aim of immigration acculturation. Neither, to the extent that i've read their works (I haven't read Cornfield's book) has shown which factors predominate with regard to the overall societal integration experience and efforts of immigrants and their advocates.

The point I'm making, at least right now, is that, for me at least, it's not been established whether unions aid or hinder assimilation overall; however, in isolation, it appears that they hinder more than harm.


Blue:
There's little doubt in my mind that Muslims may so seen, perceived, that way. The remarks I've read on this forum and heard in recent political "debate," more aptly called conjecture as go my standards of what is cogent and credible, make that much clear. The facts of who actually commits what forms of violence, and specifically what often gets referred to as terrorism, however, just does not suggest that Muslims and Islam have had much to do with the large majority of it, in both the U.S. and Europe over the course of the past 30+ years. In contrast, Muslims have a good bit to do with the terrorism that most often gets reported by easily accessed news and information publishers.

  • European Union Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2015 -- From 2011 to 2014, of the 738 terrorist acts committed, eight were religiously inspired. In the document, "religiously inspired" was stipulated to include "Islamic extremists, as well as Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists who were motivated by their religion to hurt others."
As goes one's engagement in violence, most especially the undefined form we call terrorism, it makes sense that one of a mind to commit such an act probably isn't keen, at least not genuinely so, to integrate into the society s/he's about to harm. That said, that's a choice made by the individual not to integrate which obviates the relevance of the comparative ease or difficulty of doing so.
I think people in the US believe Muslims are less violent than in Europe because in the US there are less terrorist attacks, less violent, and mostly homegrown as opposed to organized attacks by terrorist cells or networks of terrorists. In the US, the Muslim population is much less than in Europe, 3 million or 1% versus 25 to 40 million or 4% to 5% of the population. Also, the growth rate of Muslims in Europe due to refugee crisis is much higher than in the US which creates problems.

Red:
Well that's much of the problem. People believe things without bothering to find out if what they believe is actually so.

Folks can think or believe whatever they want to and I don't care too much what it is they think or believe. But when they are called to act (by voting, or sharing their ideas, or in some other way) and they do act without actually having rigorously confirmed their thoughts, I do have a problem with that.
 
There is no way you would know how many honor killings occur in the US because the DOJ does not track them. Estimates vary between 10 and 30 a year which is a pretty good indication the interpretation of Shari Law supporting honor killings is not being following by 5 million Muslims in the US.
The subject of this thread, as I understand it, is assimilation. Barriers to assimilation, barriers to the perception of assimilation and barriers to attempts to assimilate.

Are there barriers to assimilation? More than any other group has faced? Is it worse in Europe than America? Do the problems in Europe color the American perception of Muslim assimilation? Are factors like honor killing a barrier to people seeing the level of assimilation realistically? It's kind of like a little cannibalism, isn't it? How much before you have a legitimate problem with your "brand"? Throwing acid into the faces of little girls? Smashing up antiquities for no reason? As far as barriers to attempting to assimilate goes, who knows? How do Muslim immigrants measure up to other groups regarding assimilation indices?
In regard to European Muslim immigration and the US, there stark differences that effect assimilation..
  • There are over 44 million Muslims in Europe and only 3 million in the US according to Pew Research. There are almost twice as many Muslims in France as the US.
  • The United States has a much less unionized and regulated labor force than much of Europe, which speeds immigrants’ economic success and assimilation.
  • Muslims in America are seen as much less likely to engage in violence than in European countries which makes integration in the workforce and all society easier.
  • The US does not have the many culture clashes that exist in Europe.This allows outside cultures to more easily engage in social institutions including education and the workplace.
  • American immigrant communities are less secluded than in Europe. They are widely dispersed which makes integration and assimilation easier.
  • Muslims in America originate from 77 different countries with no major predominate group. Newcomers to the United States have to engage with other groups, peoples, and cultures. In Europe, it's easy for newcomers to congregate in their own cultural group, exacerbating existing cultural tensions and slowing assimilation.
  • The US is much more selective than Europe. This translates into higher skilled, better educated, and more affluent immigrants. These characteristics make it much easier to integrate into the population.
  • The US is much more selective when it comes to refugees than Europe. The process is long and arduous. Once selected, the government decides where the refuges are placed and are given a great deal of support compared to Europe. This results in the refugees assimilating better than in Europe but also increases the likelihood that they will stay in the US permanently.

Five Differences Between the U.S. and Europe on Counterterrorism

Okay, so the final five points in your post come straight from the Huff Post, which sourced its remarks on Bloomberg View, which in turn based its comments on the findings of the OECD's Indicators of Immigrant Integration 2015. For now at least, as I haven't read the thing, I'm going to assume the OECD knows how to conduct a study and that its study fairly presents the scope of inferences that may be drawn from it. Thus I'm not going to address the final five bullet points.

Red:
I think there's a reasonable case to be made that unions contribute to more successful integration into the societies the join in their new home countries, not less. In "The role of US unions in the civic integration of immigrant workers," which is a summary review of the nature and extent of existing scholarly literature on immigration integration into native/resident populations, sociologist Dr. Dan Cornfield of Vanderbilt University notes several works that show unions contribute to more successful integration of immigrants than less. He refers to two phenomena that make that so, including the ideas of unions as "mutual aid societies" and the theory of segmented assimilation (TSA). Dr. Cornfield notes too that little to no research has been conducted specifically on the matter of the role of unions in integrating immigrants into any given society. (I'm sure plenty of "armchair researchers" have opined on it, but that's hardly credible work. LOL)

(It's worth noting that the research conducted by Xie and Greenman cast doubt on the validity of the TSA; however, in "Segmented Assimilation Revisited: Types of Acculturation and Socioeconomic Mobility in Young Adulthood," Waters et al paint a different picture when applying the TSA's ideas to a population of immigrants in NYC.)

I have not yet read Dr. Cornfield's book or the one that resulted from the paper by him and referenced above, Mobilizing against Inequality Unions, Immigrant Workers, and the Crisis of Capitalism.

In "MOBILIZING AGAINST INEQUALITY Unions, Immigrant Workers, and the Crisis of Capitalism," Cornell's Dr. Lowell Turner provides multiple examples from the U.S. and Europe whereby unions facilitated immigrant assimilation more so than hindered it. He, like Dr. Cornfield, notes however that the culture of identity politics that pervades contemporary discourse acts to impugn the aim of immigration acculturation. Neither, to the extent that i've read their works (I haven't read Cornfield's book) has shown which factors predominate with regard to the overall societal integration experience and efforts of immigrants and their advocates.

The point I'm making, at least right now, is that, for me at least, it's not been established whether unions aid or hinder assimilation overall; however, in isolation, it appears that they hinder more than harm.


Blue:
There's little doubt in my mind that Muslims may so seen, perceived, that way. The remarks I've read on this forum and heard in recent political "debate," more aptly called conjecture as go my standards of what is cogent and credible, make that much clear. The facts of who actually commits what forms of violence, and specifically what often gets referred to as terrorism, however, just does not suggest that Muslims and Islam have had much to do with the large majority of it, in both the U.S. and Europe over the course of the past 30+ years. In contrast, Muslims have a good bit to do with the terrorism that most often gets reported by easily accessed news and information publishers.

  • European Union Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2015 -- From 2011 to 2014, of the 738 terrorist acts committed, eight were religiously inspired. In the document, "religiously inspired" was stipulated to include "Islamic extremists, as well as Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists who were motivated by their religion to hurt others."
As goes one's engagement in violence, most especially the undefined form we call terrorism, it makes sense that one of a mind to commit such an act probably isn't keen, at least not genuinely so, to integrate into the society s/he's about to harm. That said, that's a choice made by the individual not to integrate which obviates the relevance of the comparative ease or difficulty of doing so.
I think people in the US believe Muslims are less violent than in Europe because in the US there are less terrorist attacks, less violent, and mostly homegrown as opposed to organized attacks by terrorist cells or networks of terrorists. In the US, the Muslim population is much less than in Europe, 3 million or 1% versus 25 to 40 million or 4% to 5% of the population. Also, the growth rate of Muslims in Europe due to refugee crisis is much higher than in the US which creates problems.

Red:
Well that's much of the problem. People believe things without bothering to find out if what they believe is actually so.

Folks can think or believe whatever they want to and I don't care too much what it is they think or believe. But when they are called to act (by voting, or sharing their ideas, or in some other way) and they do act without actually having rigorously confirmed their thoughts, I do have a problem with that.
I guess it's just unfortunate that your own thoughts don't stand up to rigorous examination.
 

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