American Education, What Changed?

Discussion in 'Education' started by Cain, Mar 15, 2011.

  1. Cain
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    Cain Air Force DEP

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    So, I am currently in a class for German II, and our teacher has spent quite sometime in Germany where he learned German and attended I school if I remember correctly. He has told us that German High Schoolers on average are much higher in their studies then us. He says that their pushed much harder, and that we are pushed through the system, not into the studies.

    I agree with the last part, at this school at least, we have certain classes that can basically be summed up as the easy versions of whatever the subject. For examples:

    Science
    Biology I
    Chemistry I
    Honors Biology II
    Honors Chemistry II
    AP Biology
    AP Chemistry

    Then their is the OTHER Science Classes

    Science
    Agriculture Science (Don't believe this is offered anymore, not sure)
    Physical Science
    Environmental Science
    Earth Science

    The OTHER sciences are basically, crap. I have taken Agriculture Science, we did NOTHING but play around and I made I think a B+, not 100% sure. I am currently in Earth Science, the teacher is a 1st year, she is trying, but frankly she lets the kids tread over her too much.

    My point is, we offer a lot of classes that really, are for the kids that never want to try. I have taken a few of them, and now that I am trying to catch up on all the "hard" classes, I regret allowing myself to lax for so long.

    I am wondering, when did we as the US slow down in our educational standards and the Europeans go full-steam ahead? Or is this wrong, are we really about equal with the other nations in education? Is my information wrong?

    Why am I asking? Well, I care about my nation, and although I doubt I can do much to change the education system, I would prefer to know the facts and be able to talk to a politician I want to vote for, before I vote. I know that I am a single human being, but I pretty much think this song could be my USMB theme song:

    ~Edit~ Decided this would be a better video, the original was Frank Sinatra singing with a bunch of kids from back in the day, preferred this video.
     
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  2. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Too much government, no accountability, bloated and irresponsible contracts.

    sucks doesnt it?
     
  3. johnmarsh
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    johnmarsh BANNED

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    I like your thoughts about nation, We should also think about out education and its issue, I watched video many times, The Budget for education should be increase and pay teachers more.
     
  4. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Started in the 70's with the feel good liberal agenda. And has escalated over the last 40 years. No hurting the kids feelings, no grades, no accountability. No punishment.
     
  5. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    Please don't listen to Avatar4321 or RetiredGySgt, they both exemplify a part of the problem - both point to others as the fault in the same manner in which today's students always have an excuse whenever caught not prepared or when causing trouble. That is America today, it could be our new national motto. "Not me, it's their Fault."

    But there is an aspect to this that is rarely mentioned but I see firsthand: class. The upper, more wealthy class send their spoiled Joanies and johnnies to private schools that cost too much for the average American. There is also the division within the better public schools in academic and what used to be called vocational education. But I've said it before and will say it again, in America education is not considered important, you have only to look at our attitudes towards so called common sense and nerds in science. Lots below.

    "At the heart of Finland's stellar reputation is a philosophy completely alien to America. The country of 5.3 million in an area twice the size of Missouri considers education an end in itself - not a means to an end. It's a deeply rooted value that is reflected in the Ministry of Education and in all 432 municipalities. In sharp contrast, Americans view education as a stepping stone to better-paying jobs or to impress others. The distinction explains why we are obsessed with marquee names, and how we structure, operate and fund schools." Lessons From Finland: The Way to Education Excellence | CommonDreams.org

    http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...ew-of-waiting-for-superman-2.html#post3065163
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/education-and-history/108215-education-then-and-now.html
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/education-and-history/108215-education-then-and-now-2.html#post2074607
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...liberals-in-the-classroom-11.html#post1749647
     
  6. Cain
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    Cain Air Force DEP

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    Checking the links, thanks.
     
  7. Midnight Marauder
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    Midnight Marauder BANNED

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    I always felt while in school, they were teaching to the lowest common denominator. Dumbing down everything. I hated it, was always at least two grade levels ahead of most in my class. This is because, I believe, I was taught to read at home before entering school. And did alot of reading.

    Problem was, it continued even all the way through high school. Yeah, all the classes were easy. Homework? I'd finish it all in that class or in study hall, or right after lunch. I DETESTED the very idea of doing schoolwork at home, and simply refused to do so. Home is MY time, motherfuckers. Not yours.

    Tests? A joke. I thought my disdain for the public school system would wane, until they also came up with "social promotion" wherein, they would let you advance to the next grade even though you flunked!

    College wasn't much different. hell, you could pass without even attending the class much, if you shared political views with the professor in that course! :lmao:

    Johnny can't read, for a reason.
     
  8. psikeyhackr
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    psikeyhackr VIP Member

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    Schooling in America

    1962 is about when the first generation of kids who grew up watching a lot of television would have been taking their SATs.

    How would we ever get a good objective evaluation of what TV does to kids? I confess I could not imagine growing up without television. But I would often rather read science fiction books than watch TV. But the stuff called SF has become shallow crap.

    Oh no, the claim Star Wars is science fiction. :cuckoo: :lol:

    Good SF made science more interesting than most science teachers. Science is usually taught as if it is some abstract never never land and you can't see how it connects to reality. More math than necessary that teachers seem to dish out to make it look difficult rather than interesting. Forget it being FUN! :lol:

    This is the 1950s perspective:

    All Day September, by Roger Kuykendall
    The Project Gutenberg eBook of All Day September, by Roger Kuykendall.

    The Year When Stardust Fell, by Raymond F. Jones
    The Project Gutenberg eBook of The Year When Stardust Fell, by Raymond F. Jones.

    Modern SF has more recent scientific ideas like Black Holes and pocket computers but they don't have characters that communicate a scientific perspective of reality they just use cool high tech tools. The well known book Neuromancer is a perfect example.

    So called science fiction without SCIENCE.

    psik
     
  9. Midnight Marauder
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    Midnight Marauder BANNED

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    Kids are more and more distracted than ever, making what distractions people my age had, pale in comparison mightily. Video games, facebook and twitter, hell the web in general, along with iPods, you name it.
     
  10. Care4all
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    Care4all Warrior Princess Supporting Member

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    when i was in high school in Brooklyn, we had very large class size....maybe 40 students per class....this was mid to late 70's...what they did at the time was tested us, to see our learning levels and they put those of us honor students in accelerated classes with others on the same level of learning capabilities, and those that were above average in classes with their piers of the same, and those with an average level with others of the same level and so on and so forth....it made it easier for the teachers to teach to the maximum level of the student's abilities....we were tested each semester or maybe it was each year, with a Regents exam on every subject, and if we failed we were left back...this was long long long before the standard testing of no child left behind...

    Anyway, it made school fun for me...being in a classroom with other students of the same level and much more interesting than when in a class that is trying to teach all students in one bland method of one size fits all.

    then on top of this, in Brooklyn, in order to graduate high school, we needed 4 years of mathematics, and 4 years of English and 4 years of history and 3 years of Science and 4 years of a foreign language in order to graduate....there really was not much time to take the fancy dancey, easy electives...

    I went to 9th and 10th grade in Brooklyn before we moved to south Jersey....the very end of 10th grade...

    From the moment I got to high school in south jersey, (southern New Jersey) I was repeating everything I had learned in 9th grade in my accelerated courses in Brooklyn through Senior year...and in New Jersey we only needed 2 years of a foreign language and 2 years of math, and 2 years of Science and 2 years of History, and 4 years of English, in order to graduate....

    the schools were crap in New jersey at the time....I don't blame this on the teachers, but their system, their expectations were so low for all of us, and the classroom size there was much much smaller than in Brooklyn, like only 20 students per class...

    Why some school districts, are better at pushing their students and others are not is a real problem...

    I am uncertain if schools in New York City are as good as they were when I attended High school there, and I am also uncertain if they still separate the children in to classes with children of the same learning level...due to parents calling foul...and not wanting their children to be put in to classes that may have been decelerated courses...so they could now have all students, slow or genius, in the same classrooms, but they did NOT do this back when I went to school there...and I would NOT trade that Public school education for any private school of today.
     

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