American Credibility

[scubamike]

Originally posted by pegwinn

For the record. Americans walk proudly and talk loud because we do not rest on history. On a daily basis we make history. Arrogant yes, annoying yes, truthfull yes. Remember, without us most of Europe would be speaking German. But rather than rest on laurels, we continue to make the world better. I am also "well travelled".

Nice to see some rational discussion for a change. The problem is such behaviour is seen as bad taste by Europeans. Besides, without NZ and Aussie most of Europe would be speaking German. Without Britain most of Europe would be speaking German.
Hell, without Britain most of the USA would be speaking French or Spanish.

WWII was over 50 years ago. As for America's involvement, it was invaluable, however there was in reality a very limited percentage level of commitment, and it was awfully belated. In the Pacific it was priceless. Especially as Churchill wouldn't let ANZAC forces return home to protect their own families. But down this way there are old grievances against England regarding Churchill's various screw-ups.

As for making the world better, America probably has the biggest potential for making the world a better place. As the world's biggest economy and most powerful military power it has the resources to really make a difference.

However, without a decent understanding of the cultures being dealt with (US officers not sitting down and drinking tea while discussing issues with Arab allies in Iraq springs to mind) it is difficult to effectively use these resources without upsetting a great number of people. The holier-than-thou and more-powerful-than-thou image portrayed by Americans definitely doesn't help.
Mind you, I have met some very decent Americans working for humanitarian organisations who are the most humble and decent people I've ever met.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by scubamike
Nice to see some rational discussion for a change. The problem is such behaviour is seen as bad taste by Europeans.

Was this type of behavior distasteful when we were saving THEIR asses? It's only distasteful when we've deposed the corrupt dictator in their pocket?

WWII was over 50 years ago. As for America's involvement, it was invaluable, however there was in reality a very limited percentage level of commitment, and it was awfully belated.

I believe I speak for many when I say fuck you and go to hell for these remarks.

In the Pacific it was priceless. Especially as Churchill wouldn't let ANZAC forces return home to protect their own families. But down this way there are old grievances against England regarding Churchill's various screw-ups.

As for making the world better, America probably has the biggest potential for making the world a better place. As the world's biggest economy and most powerful military power it has the resources to really make a difference.

However, without a decent understanding of the cultures being dealt with (US officers not sitting down and drinking tea while discussing issues with Arab allies in Iraq springs to mind) it is difficult to effectively use these resources without upsetting a great number of people.

We live in a diverse world. Americans don't always drink tea to cement social bonds, maybe the islamic world should be educated to accept that not everyone is like them. OR is this advice to embrace others only applicable to westerners?

The holier-than-thou and more-powerful-than-thou image portrayed by Americans definitely doesn't help.
Mind you, I have met some very decent Americans working for humanitarian organisations who are the most humble and decent people I've ever met.

There will always be those who hate the powerful. It's called envy. We have used our power more honorably than any other major power in history.

Do you think France, Russia and Germany's unwillingness to topple saddam had anything to do with the fact that they were all on the take from the corrupt oil for food program?

 

[OCA]

I just got done reading this whole thread and i'm fucking stupefied, just absolutely stunned that there still exists people in the world who believe that you can negotiate and win hearts and minds of terrorists. IT CANNOT BE FUCKING DONE! IT IS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE! Ask any regular everyday Arab or muslim ex-pat here in the states and they will tell you you gotta kill these guys and pull them out root by root by root. These assholes understand POWER, FORCE AND DEATH! THATS IT! How many times must I and others say this? Have terrorists ever negotiated in the past in good faith? No. They have continued on with their plans. Only fools still believe in negotiation and understanding with these idiots.

Also why is a New Zealander so fascinated with the U.S.? Why are we worried about the opinion of a person from a country the size of Connecticut?

 

[OCA]

Hey mods don't delete this i'm just trying to gleen some info from Scuba here.

Hey Scuba if its true you've been to Greece(i'm a native born Greek) maybe you know what this means:

na grafo t'onoma sou sta'rhidia mou! hehehe

 

[pegwinn]

Originally posted by scubamike
Nice to see some rational discussion for a change. The problem is such behaviour is seen as bad taste by Europeans. Besides, without NZ and Aussie most of Europe would be speaking German. Without Britain most of Europe would be speaking German.
Hell, without Britain most of the USA would be speaking French or Spanish.

WWII was over 50 years ago. As for America's involvement, it was invaluable, however there was in reality a very limited percentage level of commitment, and it was awfully belated. In the Pacific it was priceless. Especially as Churchill wouldn't let ANZAC forces return home to protect their own families. But down this way there are old grievances against England regarding Churchill's various screw-ups.

As for making the world better, America probably has the biggest potential for making the world a better place. As the world's biggest economy and most powerful military power it has the resources to really make a difference.

However, without a decent understanding of the cultures being dealt with (US officers not sitting down and drinking tea while discussing issues with Arab allies in Iraq springs to mind) it is difficult to effectively use these resources without upsetting a great number of people. The holier-than-thou and more-powerful-than-thou image portrayed by Americans definitely doesn't help.
Mind you, I have met some very decent Americans working for humanitarian organisations who are the most humble and decent people I've ever met.

Ok, I went easy once. Now I am going to try to turn it up just enough to see if you get it.

If you are the very best, you don't humble yourself, Ask any Marine.
Our commitment in WW2 exceeded the entire output of the allied forces combined. Both in money, bodies, and material. And since WW2 was over 50 years ago, it obviously doesn't matter right? Ok, without American Assistance (the Marshall Plan) a big chunk of Europe would be in ruins still. Ok, without American Assistance theres a better than even chance a large chunk of Europe would be speaking Russian.
When it comes to arrogance, rudeness, and bad taste: No one (not even rednecks) touch the French. Of course rednecks were never occupied by the Germans.
And oh-by-the-way. I don't care to learn the other cultures. I am the one liberating them from the mass grave diggers. I am the one who went from British Rule, to choosing not to rule the world in just over 150 years. They can learn to say Thank You in English or they can clean up thier own mess.

 

[scubamike]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Was this type of behavior distasteful when we were saving THEIR asses? It's only distasteful when we've deposed the corrupt dictator in their pocket?

I believe I speak for many when I say fuck you and go to hell for these remarks.

We live in a diverse world. Americans don't always drink tea to cement social bonds, maybe the islamic world should be educated to accept that not everyone is like them. OR is this advice to embrace others only applicable to westerners?


There will always be those who hate the powerful. It's called envy. We have used our power more honorably than any other major power in history.

Do you think France, Russia and Germany's unwillingness to topple saddam had anything to do with the fact that they were all on the take from the corrupt oil for food program?

1. Such behaviour is always distasteful.

2. Shame to break the discussion with obsenities. Just giving the view of many non-Americans regarding US involvement in WWII. A stronger commitment would've meant a shorter, less hurtful war. You obviously paid little heed to the statements about US aid being invaluable.

3. When trying to win the "hearts and minds" of people it is good to find common ground. A little effort goes a long way when in someone elses country. If you show people a little respect they will be more inclined to cooperate.

4. Envy of the wealth and power America has is definitely one factor for those who hate America. Yes, largely American power has been relatively benevolent. However, there has been much done contrary to the proposed values of America (democracy, freedom of speech, religion, etc.). Also America is the first modern democracy to possess such power.

5. Yes, this probably was a factor and is something which people around the world are aware of. However Americas invasion of, and troubles in Iraq keeps media attention away from the scandal.

 

[scubamike]

Originally posted by OCA
Hey mods don't delete this i'm just trying to gleen some info from Scuba here.

Hey Scuba if its true you've been to Greece(i'm a native born Greek) maybe you know what this means:

na grafo t'onoma sou sta'rhidia mou! hehehe

Sorry, I was on Zakythos dealing entirely with English and Swedes, and learnt no Greek. I assume it is some sort of childish insult.

 

[scubamike]

Originally posted by pegwinn


If you are the very best, you don't humble yourself, Ask any Marine.

Ahh, but if you go about braggin about being the best you will always get people wanting to take you on for it. And you'll always need to prove your superiority. People are generally a bit dumb and refuse to learn from the mistakes of others.

Our commitment in WW2 exceeded the entire output of the allied forces combined. Both in money, bodies, and material.

Soviet WWII military losses:
13,600,000
British WWII military losses:
326,000
USA WWII military losses:
295,000

When it comes to arrogance, rudeness, and bad taste: No one (not even rednecks) touch the French. Of course rednecks were never occupied by the Germans.

Everyone hates the French. NZ is the only country to suffer a terrorist attack perpetrated by French secret service agents, so we hate them more than most.

And oh-by-the-way. I don't care to learn the other cultures. I am the one liberating them from the mass grave diggers. I am the one who went from British Rule, to choosing not to rule the world in just over 150 years. They can learn to say Thank You in English or they can clean up thier own mess.

What is the point in "liberating" a culture just to try to make them into more cultural Americas?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by scubamike
Sorry, I was on Zakythos dealing entirely with English and Swedes, and learnt no Greek. I assume it is some sort of childish insult.

Could be, go have it translated. Why do you assume? Is it that you consider yourself superior? Do you assume everybody else to be inferior? I mean really so far you've yet to make 1 realistic argument, you're views are all based on fantasy and not reality. Now who's being childish?

 

[pegwinn]

See comments in Red, there is hope for you yet.

Originally posted by scubamike
Ahh, but if you go about braggin about being the best you will always get people wanting to take you on for it. And you'll always need to prove your superiority. People are generally a bit dumb and refuse to learn from the mistakes of others.
Too right, glad to see you acknowlege the superiority of us and the stupidity of those who continue to challenge us.


Soviet WWII military losses:
13,600,000
British WWII military losses:
326,000
USA WWII military losses:
295,000

I misspoke, I was talking about the number of people committed to the war, not the dead.


Everyone hates the French. NZ is the only country to suffer a terrorist attack perpetrated by French secret service agents, so we hate them more than most.
Good, boycott French Fries, French Whine, and French Wimmin too.


What is the point in "liberating" a culture just to try to make them into more cultural Americas?

Scroll up and look at the superiority thread again. We want to remake the world into a place where we all get along. IN order to do that it must be based on the best example there is, US. Remember, for all our faults, we are still the best example of freedom anywhere you choose to look.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by scubamike
Ahh, but if you go about braggin about being the best you will always get people wanting to take you on for it.

People want to take us on because the very existence of freedom and the visible and irrefutable success of free markets is a threat to their totalitarian mind control. But the thing about the truth is that always shines forth.

What is the point in "liberating" a culture just to try to make them into more cultural Americas?

The point is to deter terrorism and tyranny, not make them into americans. You're so very wrong.

Are you still sore from yesterday, scubamike? Have you been walking funny today?

 

[scubamike]

Originally posted by pegwinn
Good, boycott French Fries, French Whine, and French Wimmin too.

I don't eat french fries, but then you only get them at McD's and Burger King, etc here.
NZ white wine and Aussie reds are very good, so why drink french. As for French women, I prefer the Germans

Gotta go late for work.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by scubamike
I don't eat french fries, but then you only get them at McD's and Burger King, etc here.
NZ white wine and Aussie reds are very good, so why drink french. As for French women, I prefer the Germans

Gotta go late for work.

French Fries are sold everywhere. Not just fast food places. Ball Parks, Skating Rinks, Little League Areas. French Fries (which are an American creation anyway so i have no idea why they are called french fries).

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by insein
French Fries are sold everywhere. Not just fast food places. Ball Parks, Skating Rinks, Little League Areas. French Fries (which are an American creation anyway so i have no idea why they are called french fries).

Maybe they are supposed to represent little deep fried french men.

They ARE potatos. :

 

[scubamike]

Originally posted by insein
French Fries are sold everywhere. Not just fast food places. Ball Parks, Skating Rinks, Little League Areas. French Fries (which are an American creation anyway so i have no idea why they are called french fries).

No surprises on the level of obesity there then.
Apart from fast food joints, the only places in NZ I can think of which sell FF is Dennys

As for the origin of the term:
In the 1840s, pomme frites ("fried potatoes") first appeared in Paris.
Fries spread to America where they were called French fried potatoes .... they came from France, and they were fried potatoes, so they were called "French fried potatoes." The name was shortened to "french fries" in the 1930s.

According to the "Straight Dope"