American and French attitudes towards marraige

[JW Frogen]

You have me convinced Ms. Barb, but then you are talking to the most unproductive man on the planet.

I have brought entire companies down with my erotic and epicurean distractions.

 

[Barb]

You have me convinced Ms. Barb, but then you are talking to the most unproductive man on the planet.

I have brought entire companies down with my erotic and epicurean distractions.

Shit happens.

If you go to sleep happily exhausted, and wake up anticipating the mayhem to come, I'd say you're living a life well spent.

 

[Barb]

And why we are on the subject, why did God make drinking bad for your health?

Why be penalized for wanting to improve on God's imperfect creation?

I haven't noticed any ill effects.

I think its the food, myself.

 

[random3434]

I know so many unhappy married people, that stay in it for the kids, or for the money.

That would suck, being married to someone you're not in love with.

Life is too short to be unhappy.

 

[syrenn]

The french model of marrying for security to me is crazy. Just as the American model marrying for love alone is crazy. In my opinions you need a combination of both.

I have seen to many marriages break up when real life sets in. Once the glow of hot sex is over what do you have left? That is a marriage. Can you make it there.

Love is not the live all end all. You can love someone and hate them at the same time. You can move closer in love to someone then farther away and back again. What I feel is important is that you really LIKE someone for exactly who and what they are. I feel that you have to be able to have fun with someone to make it last.

Marriage is not sustainable, humane or very realistic if BOTH parties do not work on it every single day. Marriage is not about money because you can have all the money in the world and still not be happy. Marriage is not just about love, because if all you do is argue about finances you will never be happy.

And yes I have been happily married for a very long time

 

[Barb]

I know so many unhappy married people, that stay in it for the kids, or for the money.

That would suck, being married to someone you're not in love with.

Life is too short to be unhappy.

Ah, sweetie, but some also stay out of a sense of responsibility. Just because you're not IN love, doesn't mean you don't love them.
What do you do when there's no bait on the hook for them to attract someone else, know that leaving them would be permanently devastating, but staying and following the rules of engagement means dying (metaphor, but only sort of) yourself?

 

[random3434]

I know so many unhappy married people, that stay in it for the kids, or for the money.

That would suck, being married to someone you're not in love with.

Life is too short to be unhappy.

Ah, sweetie, but some also stay out of a sense of responsibility. Just because you're not IN love, doesn't mean you don't love them.
What do you do when there's no bait on the hook for them to attract someone else, know that leaving them would be permanently devastating, but staying and following the rules of engagement means dying (metaphor, but only sort of) yourself?

I don't know. I left my husband because he lied and cheated, and I knew that I didn't want to live that kind of life with my daughter and myself.

Staying in a marriage because you feel 'sorry' for them, uh, no. You're not doing either of you any favors. Staying out of an 'obligation'-meh, if that's what someone feels they must do. But like you said, you die a little bit more inside every day from unhappiness......again, life is too short. Maybe that's selfish of me, I don't know.........

 

[Barb]

The french model of marrying for security to me is crazy. Just as the American model marrying for love alone is crazy. In my opinions you need a combination of both.

I have seen to many marriages break up when real life sets in. Once the glow of hot sex is over what do you have left? That is a marriage. Can you make it there.

Love is not the live all end all. You can love someone and hate them at the same time. You can move closer in love to someone then farther away and back again. What I feel is important is that you really LIKE someone for exactly who and what they are. I feel that you have to be able to have fun with someone to make it last.

Marriage is not sustainable, humane or very realistic if BOTH parties do not work on it every single day. Marriage is not about money because you can have all the money in the world and still not be happy. Marriage is not just about love, because if all you do is argue about finances you will never be happy.

And yes I have been happily married for a very long time

If you have to work on it that much, it is unnatural. Separating the contract from life long fidelity, or rather allowing modification to it as reality warrants, is the French model, not marrying FOR money or economic security, but allowing the home base to function when life (as it will) changes.

 

[Barb]

I know so many unhappy married people, that stay in it for the kids, or for the money.

That would suck, being married to someone you're not in love with.

Life is too short to be unhappy.

Ah, sweetie, but some also stay out of a sense of responsibility. Just because you're not IN love, doesn't mean you don't love them.
What do you do when there's no bait on the hook for them to attract someone else, know that leaving them would be permanently devastating, but staying and following the rules of engagement means dying (metaphor, but only sort of) yourself?

I don't know. I left my husband because he lied and cheated, and I knew that I didn't want to live that kind of life with my daughter and myself.

Staying in a marriage because you feel 'sorry' for them, uh, no. You're not doing either of you any favors. Staying out of an 'obligation'-meh, if that's what someone feels they must do. But like you said, you die a little bit more inside every day from unhappiness......again, life is too short. Maybe that's selfish of me, I don't know.........

Its NOT selfish of you. Mine left me (in one incredibly important way, but he's still here) because of medical reasons. Statins do awful things to men. They keep them alive, but impotent. A life of celibacy is a horrible gun barrel to stare down starting at age 43 for a perfectly healthy woman. At 47, it starts to pinch a bit more every day.
But, its not his fault. But, its not my fault either.
Wouldn't it be selfish of me to leave?
Wouldn't the way the French approach the marriage contract work much better?

 

[syrenn]

If you have to work on it that much, it is unnatural. Separating the contract from life long fidelity, or rather allowing modification to it as reality warrants, is the French model, not marrying FOR money or economic security, but allowing the home base to function when life (as it will) changes.

It depends on what you think working on it is. Being thoughtful of each other wants, needs and feelings everyday is not unnatural.

So are you saying, or at least it sounds to me, that the french model is a marriage of convenience? Married, but with separate lives?

 

[Barb]

If you have to work on it that much, it is unnatural. Separating the contract from life long fidelity, or rather allowing modification to it as reality warrants, is the French model, not marrying FOR money or economic security, but allowing the home base to function when life (as it will) changes.

It depends on what you think working on it is. Being thoughtful of each other wants, needs and feelings everyday is not unnatural.

So are you saying, or at least it sounds to me, that the french model is a marriage of convenience? Married, but with separate lives?

Separated parts. There's always a connection, even with divorce. Once you share a life with someone, unless they try to kill you (been there), there remains a connection. The French model allows for the continuity of emotional support and family responsibility and security. Same holidays, traditions, graduations and, well, FUNCTION. It also allows for the living of life in a more natural way.

 

[syrenn]

Separated parts. There's always a connection, even with divorce. Once you share a life with someone, unless they try to kill you (been there), there remains a connection. The French model allows for the continuity of emotional support and family responsibility and security. Same holidays, traditions, graduations and, well, FUNCTION. It also allows for the living of life in a more natural way.

And how is that so different then the American model? And when you say "natural" do you mean a greater pass on messing around?

And no i am not passing judgments on right or wrong, just trying to get it right.

 

[Barb]

Separated parts. There's always a connection, even with divorce. Once you share a life with someone, unless they try to kill you (been there), there remains a connection. The French model allows for the continuity of emotional support and family responsibility and security. Same holidays, traditions, graduations and, well, FUNCTION. It also allows for the living of life in a more natural way.

And how is that so different then the American model? And when you say "natural" do you mean a greater pass on messing around?

And no i am not passing judgments on right or wrong, just trying to get it right.

Not a greater "pass" on "messing around," but an understanding that abilities change at different rates for people in a relationship.
Mine CAN'T. I CAN. Would it really be "messing around" for me to find some happiness in this life that he has been unable to provide for nearly five freaking years? Would it be better for me to withdraw everything he does depend on because of the ONE thing he cannot provide?

 

[syrenn]

Not a greater "pass" on "messing around," but an understanding that abilities change at different rates for people in a relationship.
Mine CAN'T. I CAN. Would it really be "messing around" for me to find some happiness in this life that he has been unable to provide for nearly five freaking years? Would it be better for me to withdraw everything he does depend on because of the ONE thing he cannot provide?

OK, I'm catching on to what your saying. You didn't sign up for celibacy.

My opinion on that is find it somewhere else and preserve a good mirage. Sex is not a marriage but only one part of it. Does he understand your position and will not oppose your finding some who can? Have you had the discussion about all of this?

I think that what you talking about is an open marriage and polyamorous relationships. Not so much the idea of French or American.

 

[JW Frogen]

Open marriages don't work.

The old jealous genie always comes out of the bottle.

Best to go with the noble lie if you must.