America is a republic, not a democracy

As mentioned, the word 'democracy' doesn't play a role in constitution. What I think is obvious to anyone who's studied the founding doctrines is the United States is a federated republic with democratic features.

Some judges and many executive workers are appointed, not elected. With the exception of referendums, which is a feature later added, decisions on matters are not made by the citizens as a whole.

Maybe as a teacher, you'll know the answer to this Annie....were Democracies common during the founding father's era? Were there any at all?

With the exception of Athens I don't know of any. The Founders were very familiar with Plato's The Republic. They saw the pitfalls in both republic and democracy, but concluded the democracy had many more and those pitfalls were more dangerous, especially given the geographic and demographic reality of US/colonies in 1700's. It's only gotten more complicated since.

A federal DIRECT democracy is certainly dangerous! Agreed.

A representative Republic IS a form of democracy that is not as dangerous....

I have NEVER SAID we have a federal DIRECT Democracy...I count my blessing we do not...

I stick by: A constitutional Republic is a form of 'liberal' democracy.

A liberal democracy, also known as a bourgeois democracy or constitutional democracy, is a common form of representative democracy. According to the principles of liberal democracy, the elections should be free and fair, and the political process should be competitive. Political pluralism is usually defined as the presence of multiple and distinct political parties.

A liberal democracy may take various constitutional forms: it may be a constitutional republic (sometimes federal republic), as the United States, India, Germany or Brazil, or a constitutional monarchy, such as the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada or Spain. It may have a presidential system (United States, Brazil), a parliamentary system (Westminster system, UK and Commonwealth countries, Spain), or a hybrid, semi-presidential system (France).
 
You can say we're a democracy and be correct, in the broadest sense of the word (demos kratos, "people" "power"). You can get a little more specific and say we're a representative democracy, and still be correct.

You can get even more specific and say we're a Constitutional republic, and be correct. And then you can get real specific, and the most accurate, and say we're a federal constitutional republic.


It's not inherently wrong to say we're a democracy; it's just not the most accurate descriptor.

I've seen some people on here say we're becoming more like an oligarchy. :eusa_whistle:
 
You can say we're a democracy and be correct, in the broadest sense of the word (demos kratos, "people" "power"). You can get a little more specific and say we're a representative democracy, and still be correct.

You can get even more specific and say we're a Constitutional republic, and be correct. And then you can get real specific, and the most accurate, and say we're a federal constitutional republic.


It's not inherently wrong to say we're a democracy; it's just not the most accurate descriptor.

I've seen some people on here say we're becoming more like an oligarchy. :eusa_whistle:

However in another sense a pure Democracy can best be termed as MOB RULE...

What we have is based upon LAW. As it is oft stated? We are a nation of LAWS...not of men.

As to the term oligarchy? I concur. We seem to be ruled by a small number of elitists that could care less of the Constitution, or what the people think or say. They choose to do anyway and if they aren't careful? We'll see Civil War part deux...
 
Back in the day as school children we used to start the day with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands.... Does anyone remember that?

America is a Republic, a constitutional Republic of a democratic (one man - one vote) nature. However, we are not a democracy where the majority rules.

CITIZENSHIP Democracy:

A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic--negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether is be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy

CITIZENSHIP Republic:

Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress. Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world. A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of

(1) an executive and (2) a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation, all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create (3) a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their government acts and to recognize (4) certain inherent individual rights.

Take away any one or more of those four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and you are drifting into democracy.

Atwood. Superior to all others.--Autocracy declares the divine right of kings; its authority can not be questioned; its powers are arbitrarily or unjustly administered. Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success. Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy * * * and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic."



"By order of the Secretary of War: C.P. Summerall, Major General, Chief of Staff. Official: Lutz Wahl, Major General, The Adjutant General.



WHY DEMOCRACIES FAIL

A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.(Written by Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago while our thirteen original states were still colonies of Great Britain. At the time he was writing of the decline and fall of the Athenian Republic over two thousand years before.

"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive."

Westbrook Pegler: New York Journal American, January 25th and 26th, 1951, under the titles- Upholds Republic of U.S. Against Phony Democracy, Democracy in the U.S. Branded Meaningless

REPUBLIC VS. DEMOCRACY, U.S.ARMY ANALYSIS

You want to make a case that America isn't a democracy based on a line in the Pledge of Allegiance? What are you nuts? Here's America's Creed written 25 years after the Pledge. "I believe in the United States of America as a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Who's just powers are derived from the consent of the governed. A democracy in a republic, a sovereign nation of many sovereign states, a perfect union one and inseparable. Established on those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity.....
 
You can say we're a democracy and be correct, in the broadest sense of the word (demos kratos, "people" "power"). You can get a little more specific and say we're a representative democracy, and still be correct.

You can get even more specific and say we're a Constitutional republic, and be correct. And then you can get real specific, and the most accurate, and say we're a federal constitutional republic.


It's not inherently wrong to say we're a democracy; it's just not the most accurate descriptor.

I've seen some people on here say we're becoming more like an oligarchy. :eusa_whistle:

and we are becoming more like an oligarchy with the tendency towards letting the few set the agenda of the many. Progressive push towards 'democracy' does just that.
 
Maybe the following will help some of our more inaccurate constitutional theorists.


A republic is a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, retain supreme control over the government.[1][2] The term is generally also understood to describe a government where most decisions are made with reference to established laws, rather than the discretion of a head of state, and therefore monarchy is today generally considered to be incompatible with being a republic. One common modern definition of a republic is a government having a head of state who is not a monarch.[3][4] The word "republic" is derived from the Latin phrase res publica, which can be translated as "a public affair", and often used to describe a state using this form of government.

Both modern and ancient republics vary widely in their ideology and composition. In classical and medieval times the archetype of all republics was the Roman Republic, which referred to Rome in between the period when it had kings, and the periods when it had emperors. The Italian medieval and Renaissance political tradition today referred to as "civic humanism" is sometimes considered to derive directly from Roman republicans such as Sallust and Tacitus. But Greek-influenced authors about Rome, such as Polybius and Cicero, also sometimes used the term as a translation for Greek politeia which could mean regime generally, but could also be applied to certain specific types of regime, not exactly corresponding to the Roman Republic, for example including Sparta, which had two kings but was not considered a normal monarchy as it also had ephors representing the common people. Republics were not equated with classical democracies such as Athens, but had a democratic aspect to them.[5]

In modern republics such as the United States and India, the executive is legitimized both by a constitution and by popular suffrage. In the United States, James Madison compared the republic to democracy,[6] and found democracy wanting. Montesquieu included both democracies, where all the people have a share in rule, and aristocracies or oligarchies, where only some of the people rule, as republican forms of government.[7] In modern political science, republicanism refers to a specific ideology that is based on civic virtue and is considered distinct from ideologies such as liberalism.[8]

Most often a republic is a sovereign country, but there are also subnational entities that are referred to as republics, or which have governments that are described as "republican" in nature. For instance, Article IV of the Constitution of the United States "guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government."[9] The Soviet Union was a single state composed of distinct and nominally sovereign Soviet Socialist Republics.
Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
My statement is true. A majority sufficiently large enough to amend the Constitution can do virtually anything it wants.
(NYc)

I think that you should read the constitution. Your statement would be true if this were a true democracy. Since this is a Republic, your statement doesn't hold water.

Liberals are stuck on stupid, and united in support of America's enemies.

Yes. Democracy is an enemy of America.


Epic fail.
 
Yes. Democracy is an enemy of America. (Toro)

Toro, the only epic failure here is the one that is going on between your ears.

Liberals remain stuck on stupid, and united in support of America's enemies.
 
My statement is true. A majority sufficiently large enough to amend the Constitution can do virtually anything it wants.
(NYc)

I think that you should read the constitution. Your statement would be true if this were a true democracy. Since this is a Republic, your statement doesn't hold water.

Liberals are stuck on stupid, and united in support of America's enemies.

Are you really prepared to argue that an amendment to the Constitution cannot be repealed?

Let's go.
 
Maybe the following will clear up some misconceptions for NYc.

The American Revolution began as a rejection only of the authority of British parliament over the colonies, not of the monarchy. The failure of the British monarch to protect the colonies from what they considered the infringement of their rights to representative government, the monarch's branding of those requesting redress as traitors, and his support for sending combat troops to demonstrate authority resulted in widespread perception of the British monarchy as tyrannical. With the Declaration of Independence the leaders of the revolt firmly rejected the monarchy and embraced republicanism. The leaders of the revolution were well versed in the writings of the French liberal thinkers, and also in history of the classical republics. John Adams had notably written a book on republics throughout history. In addition, the widely distributed and popularly read-aloud tract Common Sense, by Thomas Paine, succinctly and eloquently laid out the case for republican ideals and independence to the larger public. The Constitution of the United States ratified in 1789 created a relatively strong federal republic to replace the relatively weak confederation under the first attempt at a national government with the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union ratified in 1783. The first ten amendments to the Constitution, called the United States Bill of Rights, guaranteed certain natural rights fundamental to republican ideals that justified the Revolution.

Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can the 1st ten amendments be Constitutionally repealed or not?
 
Yes. Democracy is an enemy of America. (Toro)

Toro, the only epic failure here is the one that is going on between your ears.

Liberals remain stuck on stupid, and united in support of America's enemies.

You are the definition of an extremist. Extremists calling others stupid is ironic and amusing.




FTR, When people think of America, the first thing they think of is democracy. America's global brand first and foremost is democracy. It is not the constitution. It is freedom. But to most people, freedom means democracy. You cannot be free if you cannot choose who rules you.
 
Can the 1st ten amendments be Constitutionally repealed or not? (NYc)

That is an interesting question, and it is one that I can't answer. The first 10 Amendments are the Bill of Rights. Why would anyone want to repeal them? However, other amendments to the constitution have been repealed such as amendment 18, the prohibition of liquor, with the passage of the 21st amendment. From what I understand the repeal process requires a 2/3 majority in Congress, and in the states to repeal an amendment. Can anyone see that happening in Washington, or the individual states? Does anyone have a better handle on this?
 
If only there was a party in America that stood for republican governance

"The great object should be to combat the evil: 1. By establishing a political equality among all; 2. By witholding unnecessary opportunities from a few to increase the inequality of property by an immoderate, and especially an unmerited, accumulation of riches; 3. By the silent operation of laws which, without violating the rights of property, reduce extreme wealth towards a state of mediocrity and raise extreme indigence towards a state of comfort; 4. By abstaining from measures which operate differently on different interests, and particularly such as favor one interest at the expense of another; 5. By making one party a check on the other so far as the existence of parties cannot be prevented nor their views accommodated. If this is not the language of reason, it is that of republicanism." -- James Madison; from Parties (1792)
 

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