America Founded as a Christian Nation

[Porter Rockwell]

Can anyone find a direct quote by Thomas Jefferson that reads this way in these exact words. If you do I will no longer post to this thread.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

You have made this a challenge. I told you I was no longer wanting to pursue this. I inadvertently left out a link in one post. You called me a liar and said if someone can find that direct quote, you will no longer post on this thread. Today, we get to see if you are a man of your word.

My post appeared in # 531. You made it a big deal, but I thought nothing of the quote itself. So, today, you have to leave this thread IF you are a man of your word. Check this link, exactly as I copied and pasted it:

http://peace2you.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Faith-of-Founding-Fathers1.pdf

Additionally, to show that I did not want anyone to think that the quote was bogus, I looked up the book and cited where that link came from. I posted that in post # 552. So, you have the direct quote you asked for, the explanation of how I ended up posting the specifics to the book and now if you are a man of your word, you can leave now. If not, the real liar is you. Save face and go away. You don't even have to apologize.

The lib changed the subject of this thread, from "America founded as a Christian Nation",


BECAUSE HE KNOWS THAT HE LOST. THAT AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION.


Now he is doing damage control, trying to bury his loss under irrelevant crap.

If I were getting my arse kicked as bad as he did, I'd want to do damage control; but now he's made a deal and I took him up on it. He fears that he's not going to prevail; therefore, that new player in the game is, in all likelihood, a sockpuppet.

Let's see if he keeps his word. If he don't, his accusations that I lied will be more proven lies. If the sockpuppet with a handful of posts over years of posting here picks up where he leaves off, it is what it is.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It appears in the first post I could have saved a lot of time with links like this one:

https://sheldonemrylibrary.famguardian.org/BibleStudyCourses/BLC-1.pdf

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Can anyone find a direct quote by Thomas Jefferson that reads this way in these exact words. If you do I will no longer post to this thread.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

"Christianity" has gone down many paths over the centuries. Most have been complete bullshit by select interpretations of a quote or three of scripture

he is one of the demons. LOL Sweetheart, love your eyes, etc, he is in it for the money.

He is a very real devil. I can't listen to him any longer. He is so full of BS.

You are very funny. You couldn't make a rational argument and left, but came back at the urging of another poster to try and troll me at a personal level. That approach where you gang up on someone after the work has been done is unethical, at best. Then, to attack me and claim it's all about the money???? LMAO.

I went back to school and graduated a little over a year ago (and I was well over 60 when I graduated.) The first Bible College I went to and every church I've belonged to did not beg for money nor pass a collection plate. In the church exists a deposit box and if anyone is moved by the Holy Spirit, they could leave tithes there or send the money in. I don't pass collection plates nor ask for money.

I do visit the sick, help the disenfranchised get jobs, and help people in general with free counseling sessions, giving eulogies, performing weddings, etc. Never asked for a nickel.

At the beginning of last year I took a 96 year old woman into my home and had to care for her around the clock. Her own family wouldn't. My wife went to this woman's house to give her a bath and cockroaches fled from her rectum and bathrobe. And so, my wife brought her here, bathed her and I would help get her to the bathroom and to bed... and I made her breakfast and lunch while my wife made dinner in the evening. Unfortunately, she fell, broke her hip and passed away in the hospital. But, I never asked for nor was I offered anything by any member of her family (or anyone else for that matter) - and one of the sons goes on cruises while the other was having a pool put in his backyard during all of this.

After she passed, I did take one of her grandson's in as he was homeless. He didn't want to work and attacked me in my home. At the end of the fight, he had his wrist broken in two places and a fractured arm. So, he's gone. And, as fate would have it, my wife let some autistic kid sleep here last night after he had some kind of blow up with a family member. Now, I have to get involved in his life.

Having said all of that, if there is a way to turn my service into a money making proposition, by all means do share. When you help the needy, NOBODY has any money. I'd be most appreciative if you can explain how my efforts can translate into money. If not, your criticisms aren't worth much.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#838

. You called me a liar and said if someone can find that direct quote, you will no longer post on this thread. Today, we get to see if you are a man of your word.

I asked for a Direct Quote from Jefferson.

#831

Can anyone find a direct quote by Thomas Jefferson that reads this way in these exact words. If you do I will no longer post to this thread.

Your link to Peace Lutheran Church in Belgrade, MT. does not have a direct quote from Jefferson for two reasons.

It appears to be a copy of a copy that links the quote to
* The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington, D.C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIV, p. 385, to Charles Thomson on January 9, 1816

so it is not a direct quote of Jefferson, but now we know you relied on a fake quote that was not from the direct quote of the source;

Here is a direct quote:

You Lose:

Thomas Jefferson to Charles Thomson, 9 January 1816

To Charles Thomson

Monticello Jan. 9. 16.1

My dear and antient friend

An acquaintance of 52. years, for I think ours dates from 1764. calls for an interchange of notice now & then that we remain in existence, the monuments of another age, and examples of a friendship unaffected by the jarring elements, by which we have been surrounded, of revolutions, of government, of party & of opinion. I am reminded of this duty by the receipt, thro’ our friend Dr Patterson, of your Synopsis of the four Evangelists. I had procured it as soon as I saw it advertized, and had become familiar with it’s use. but this copy is the more valued as it comes from your hand. this work bears the stamp of that accuracy which marks every thing from you, and will be useful to those who, not taking things on trust, recur for themselves to the fountain of pure morals. I too have made a wee little book, from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus. it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. a more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen. it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel, and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what it’s Author never said nor saw. they have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognise one feature. if I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side, and I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gassendi’s Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics, and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagancies of his rival sects.

I retain good health, am rather feeble to walk much, but ride with ease, passing two or three hours a day on horseback, and every three or four months taking, in a carriage, a journey of 90. miles to a distant possession, where I pass a good deal of my time. my eyes need the aid of glasses by night, and with small print in the day also; my hearing not quite so sensible as it used to be; no tooth shaking yet, but shivering and shrinking in body from the cold we now experience, my thermometer having been as low as 12.° this morning. my greatest oppression is a correspondence afflictingly laborious, the extent of which I have been long endeavoring to curtail. this keeps me at the drudgery of the writing table all the prime hours of the day, leaving for the gratification of my appetite for reading only what I can steal from the hours of sleep. could I reduce this epistolary corvée within the limits of my friends, and affairs, and give the time redeemed from it to reading and reflection, to history, ethics, mathematics, my life would be as happy as the infirmities of age would admit, and I should look to it’s consummation with the composure of one ‘qui summum nec metuit diem nec optat.’

So much as to myself; and I have given you this string of egotisms in the hope of drawing a similar one from yourself. I have heard from others that you retain your health, a good degree of activity, and all the vivacity & chearfulness of your mind. but I wish to learn it more minutely from yourself. how has time affected your health, your strength, your faculties & spirits? what are your amusements literary & social? tell me every thing about yourself, because all will be interesting to one who retains for you ever the same constant & affectionate friendship & respect.

Th: Jefferson

 

[Porter Rockwell]

NOTFOOLEDBYW'S FINAL RESPONSE

This thread is now 805 posts long as I begin this response. Of those, NOTFOOLEDBYW has made a total of 155 posts. They are posts # 78, 80, 111, 113, 118, 126, 140, 154, 157, 158, 159, 162, 172, 174, 179, 189, 192, 195, 196, 197, 203, 204, 205, 212, 220, 224, 225, 232, 233, 234, 235, 240, 240, 241, 242, 243, 246, 247, 254, 255, 256, 267, 279, 280, 285, 290, 296, 297, 302, 307, 309, 318, 321, 328, 330, 335, 339, 340, 341, 345, 347, 350, 350, 351, 352, 367, 370, 373, 381, 393, 394, 399, 401, 404, 411, 412, 413, 420, 421, 425, 426, 429, 430, 431, 432, 468, 485, 500, 504, 508, 512, 516, 519, 525, 527, 537, 539, 541, 546, 549, 551, 554, 557, 559, 561, 563, 565, 566, 569, 570, 574, 577, 581, 582, 587, 589, 606, 607, 610, 626, 630, 636, 642, 644, 646, 684, 688, 699, 700, 703, 704, 707, 708, 709, 715, 716, 718, 724, 725, 730, 740, 744, 746, 747, 750, 753, 754, 755, 761, 762, 769, 774, 782, 7998, 800, ... that is 155 posts out of 805

In virtually every post NOTFOOLEDBYW has insulted posters, called them liars, misrepresented people, and NOBODY has defended his positions.


By contrast, NOTFOOLEDBYW has been challenged by numerous posters to whom NOTFOOLEDBYW has called liars, fools, morons, and accused them of all manner of wrongdoing. Those posters responded a total of 126 times in posts: #120, 130, 134, 167, 169,174, 176, 175, 176, 180, 185, 206, 207, 250, 282, 299, 346, 346, 354, 396, 397, 403, 405, 406, 407, 414, 415, 416, 424, 427, 428, 433, 434, 438, 439, 440, 445, 446, 447, 448, 450, 451, 452, 453, 454, 455, 456, 457, 458, 460, 461, 464, 465, 466, 467, 469, 470, 472, 474, 476, 483, 484, 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 496, 497, 498, 499, 501, 502, 517, 518, 521, 526, 528, 531, 558, 562, 564, 567, 568, 571, 573, 576, 578, 579, 588, 591, 593, 594, 595, 596, 598, 599, 600, 603, 608, 612, 613, 615, 618, 627, 628, 629, 633, 645, 648, 653, 658, 665, 668, 698, 701, 705, 706, 711, 722, 723, 726, 751, 764, 765, 779

I have been obliged to respond to NOTFOOLEDBYW a total of 85 times personally. That is a total of 366 posts that have revolved around this one poster.

One poster or another has successfully defeated each and every argument he brings to the table. He is now remaining, claiming I lied about Thomas Jefferson - as if that would change the balance of this discussion. Here is my position:

1) When other posters began discussing this as a conversation rather than a point by point, let's prove everything, I got conversational. I quoted Thomas Jefferson from an unnamed source in an online general conversation.

2) NOTFOOLEDBYW seized upon that accusing me of posting a lie; even claiming that I edited my source. I did not. I did, however, look at where my source got their material and I quoted where it could be found. I did not lie

3) Regardless of how that material reads, the bottom line is Thomas Jefferson said he was a Christian and I took him at his word as his early life indicates such. Jefferson states, and it was quoted on this thread, that his life experiences changed his outlook. Nothing has changed what Jefferson said at that point in his life

4) Regardless of how many times founders did or said one thing or another, I look at the bottom line and if over half the posts here are either one man arguing against those points compared to the scores of posts disagreeing with him, there is no point to prove. If this matters to you and you want to wade through who said what, you have each post - minus my own (which is unnecessary since all those people who agreed with me either quoted the relevant parts and / or the post itself. My point here is I did not lie and every time that troll posts, I will simply cut and paste this response (that took some hours to research just for him.)

If he still wants to call me a liar, he can do it to my face. Otherwise, he has been successfully defeated by other posters to the point that nothing I have to say would be relevant anyway. IF there are any other points to be addressed, I will be happy to entertain them, just not by the resident troll. The dumb ass needs to read. This post refutes his account of what happened.. I know because I'm the one who did it. I copied and pasted the fucking quote as it appeared and no amount of political jockeying will change that. It's over dumbass.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You have made this a challenge. I told you I was no longer wanting to pursue this. I inadvertently left out a link in one post. You called me a liar and said if someone can find that direct quote, you will no longer post on this thread. Today, we get to see if you are a man of your word.

My post appeared in # 531. You made it a big deal, but I thought nothing of the quote itself. So, today, you have to leave this thread IF you are a man of your word. Check this link, exactly as I copied and pasted it:

http://peace2you.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Faith-of-Founding-Fathers1.pdf

Additionally, to show that I did not want anyone to think that the quote was bogus, I looked up the book and cited where that link came from. I posted that in post # 552. So, you have the direct quote you asked for, the explanation of how I ended up posting the specifics to the book and now if you are a man of your word, you can leave now. If not, the real liar is you. Save face and go away. You don't even have to apologize.

Create sockpuppets, go back on your word, falsely accuse me of lying while you get caught in lies, and then contact every atheist on USM to come to your defense after you've lied and I lose???? LMAO. Not even in YOUR dreams, much less mine. BTW,. I don't give two hoots in HELL what Jefferson did or did not say. I cited from the Internet and then gave a link... then had to research to find the book. If the quote was wrong, the cite was unreliable; it didn't have shit to do with my honesty or honor. But, you are the liar here.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#846

. I cited from the Internet and then gave a link... then had to research to find the book. If the quote was wrong, the cite was unreliable; it didn't have shit to do with my honesty or honor. But, you are the liar here.

#847 FOR THE RECORD when I pointed out the quote was wrong Porter Rockwell didn’t acknowledge that my version was correct, he stood his ground and called me a liar. That was wrong.

 

[Correll]

#846

. I cited from the Internet and then gave a link... then had to research to find the book. If the quote was wrong, the cite was unreliable; it didn't have shit to do with my honesty or honor. But, you are the liar here.

# FOR THE RECORD when I pointed out the quote was wrong Porter Rockwell didn’t acknowledge that my version was correct, he stood his ground and called me a liar. That was wrong.

That Tree was not a BIRCH! That tree was a RED ELM! And I have proved it!!!


IGNORE THE FOREST! THERE IS NO FOREST! JUST THIS SINGLE TREE RIGHT HERE!!! THIS ONE. NO, NOT THAT ONE. NO, NONE OF THOSE. JUST ONE TREE.

MAYBE A FEW TREES.


lol!!!!!


ALL YOU ARE DOING IT MAKING ROCKWELL LOOK LIKE THE VOICE OF REASON.


You lefties, you really should have seen this coming. I tried to tell you. But you would not listen.

 

[Penelope]

Can anyone find a direct quote by Thomas Jefferson that reads this way in these exact words. If you do I will no longer post to this thread.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

"Christianity" has gone down many paths over the centuries. Most have been complete bullshit by select interpretations of a quote or three of scripture

he is one of the demons. LOL Sweetheart, love your eyes, etc, he is in it for the money.

He is a very real devil. I can't listen to him any longer. He is so full of BS.

You are very funny. You couldn't make a rational argument and left, but came back at the urging of another poster to try and troll me at a personal level. That approach where you gang up on someone after the work has been done is unethical, at best. Then, to attack me and claim it's all about the money???? LMAO.

I went back to school and graduated a little over a year ago (and I was well over 60 when I graduated.) The first Bible College I went to and every church I've belonged to did not beg for money nor pass a collection plate. In the church exists a deposit box and if anyone is moved by the Holy Spirit, they could leave tithes there or send the money in. I don't pass collection plates nor ask for money.

I do visit the sick, help the disenfranchised get jobs, and help people in general with free counseling sessions, giving eulogies, performing weddings, etc. Never asked for a nickel.

At the beginning of last year I took a 96 year old woman into my home and had to care for her around the clock. Her own family wouldn't. My wife went to this woman's house to give her a bath and cockroaches fled from her rectum and bathrobe. And so, my wife brought her here, bathed her and I would help get her to the bathroom and to bed... and I made her breakfast and lunch while my wife made dinner in the evening. Unfortunately, she fell, broke her hip and passed away in the hospital. But, I never asked for nor was I offered anything by any member of her family (or anyone else for that matter) - and one of the sons goes on cruises while the other was having a pool put in his backyard during all of this.

After she passed, I did take one of her grandson's in as he was homeless. He didn't want to work and attacked me in my home. At the end of the fight, he had his wrist broken in two places and a fractured arm. So, he's gone. And, as fate would have it, my wife let some autistic kid sleep here last night after he had some kind of blow up with a family member. Now, I have to get involved in his life.

Having said all of that, if there is a way to turn my service into a money making proposition, by all means do share. When you help the needy, NOBODY has any money. I'd be most appreciative if you can explain how my efforts can translate into money. If not, your criticisms aren't worth much.

See my avatar, that is the pic of the Father (Emperor Vespasian) , the son (Emperor Titus) and the Holy Ghost (Emperor Domitian), the father and 2 sons.

Do you believe in the virgin birth?? Still??

 

[kjw47]

Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith”

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

“We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come

Where are the Christian principles found to slaughter the Indians for land and gold, enslave black people and treat yellow people like inferior dogs--- doesn't sound Christlike to me. Now greed run capitalism is ruining it for the majority-- they were NEVER founded under Christian principles. They are selling us cancer as we speak.

You seem confused--The religion that came out of Rome( 2Thess 2:3) and claims to be Christian--are far removed from God and his son--They do not know either one. Not a single branch( 33,999) ever fixed it either. They all remain in darkness.

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." Proverbs 18: 13

It is appalling that some readers cannot read the thread and make thoughtful replies. We've already covered this aspect of the discussion and you should read the thread.. I'll give you the first post on this for free and should you want to litigate the matter further, read the thread and bring a new argument to the table. BTW, are you a sockpuppet?

I Interrupt My Own Thread To Respond The Slavery Issue

There is no correlation between slavery and the Bible. For all those who try to make it an issue, let us set the record straight. In America:

* Slaves ate better in America than their blue collar, white contemporaries who were "free"

* They lived in better housing than their blue collar, white counterparts

* They were paid wages and fewer than 25 percent of them ever worked in cotton fields. Many of them were skilled craftsmen and received a stipend for their work

Time on the Cross - Wikipedia

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Cross-Economics-American-Slavery/dp/0393312186&tag=ff0d01-20


* The facts still remain that those who keep bitching about slavery fail to admit that we were under British control until 1789 AND the framers began abolishing slavery in the United States Constitution and follow up federal statutes

* Those who complain about slavery are willing to give up their own labor without studying the 16th Amendment. The 16th Amendment is one of two blatantly illegal amendments to the Constitution AND the 16th Amendment is a plank out of the Communist Manifesto

* So that communism can be self perpetuating those same people wailing about slavery have no problem with socialized medicine. If they were working, they would see it as being evil when those who won't work expect you to cover their medical care.

Let's not even consider that the best way to get a job in America is through an employment agency that gets you a job, the "man" sits sit in cozy office while you sweat your butt off and they are making money off YOUR labor. We just put a little lipstick on that pig and pretend people have a choice.

As has been aptly pointed out, those who preach about slavery being evil are dedicated to the Democrats... and WHO was it that forced the illegally ratified 14th Amendment through Congress on the pretext of making blacks equal to whites? It was not the Democrats.

https://www.constitution.org/14ll/no14th.htm

The Fourteenth Amendment is Unconstitutional - Judge L.H. Perez

Was the Fourteenth Amendment Constitutionally Adopted? | Abbeville Institute

When you have legal researchers, civil libertarians, ministers, and even judges questioning the 14th Amendment, it's time to think it over.

Somehow those pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes that hate Christianity so much don't access links. They want to judge Christians on the basis of slavery... of which they don't know a damn thing about. Meanwhile, they are satisfied to be led by the descendants of the people and the party that perpetuated the institution of slavery.

I guess that helps them be proud of that group who tolerate Muslims that want to convert or kill us. They even had one serve as president for TWO TERMS. These are the same people giving refuge to the LGBTQP community and represent the very worst of mankind.

Somehow, it is acceptable for America to give refuge to the races that started slavery, practiced it before, during and after America became a nation AND still practice it. They get a free pass... as do those people in America whose families profited off slavery not to mention the blacks in places like Sierra Leone who sold their brethren into slavery. They hypocrisy of it all sucks the big suck.

You are correct--Many peoples practiced slavery. The ones who live in darkness. Many slaves were treated badly as well. Used the young women for sex, etc. No Christian ever practiced enslaving another, while being a true follower. Just because one claims to be Christian, or are told they are Christian, does not make it a reality.( Matthew7:21). This world is very confused on that matter.

It is not for me to decide who is and who is not a Christian. If someone claims a relationship with Christ - under ANY name, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I am NOT their judge, regardless of who accuses me of saying differently.

As for slavery - Christians, non-Christians, blacks, whites, Indians, and everyone else practiced it and still practices it. It is not unique to Christians and the left is lying. Americans - as distinguished from the colonists under British rule - began phasing the practice out.

The bible is clear who is. It says--Obeying proves ones love for Jesus, Lip service is a very little part, Obeying is huge. And Jesus teaches--Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God.= OT-- NT, over and over, year after year to learn and apply every utterance. Jesus real teachers make sure it is accomplished. All can look this very moment and see if their teachers teach this reality.

 

[Bezukhov]

America was founded as a Christian nation. It was taken over by secularists in 1962 on the basis of a personal letter written by a founding father, but interpreted to mean opposite of what he meant.

In law, personal letters have no authority, but America was taken over by a de facto / illegal / unconstitutional government that empowered non-whites and non-Christians that savor every moment that they are able to attack the principles upon which the Republic rests. These people have assaulted the family unit, brought us to the time spoken of in Isaiah 5: 20 - 24.

Instead of talking about the OP, we end up on slavery every time. The atheists, communists, and secularists pick that hill to die on. But, their problem will always remain: in the political realm, they always vote for slave masters as their leaders. They even stabbed those who saved them in the back.

We end up on slavery because some of us think slavery is inimical to Christian values. A Christian nation should follow the teachings of Jesus. If it doesn't, then it's not a Christian nation, ne c'est pas? Of course, if we're wrong please enlighten us. Show us where Jesus wanted black people beaten, whipped and forced to pick cotton.

It's obvious that you don't have the facts since your presuppositions are wrong across the board. You hate Christians. Got it. You still support slavery at every opportunity. Start your own thread.

I support slavery? Moi? I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist, the one political philosophy absolutely antithetical to the concept of slavery. One more thing. Where did Jesus instruct His followers to set up earthly political nations, where they can lord over and dominate everyone else? I do remember Him saying that His Kingdom was not part of this World, and that Christians should be seeking His Kingdom first. If they were doing that they wouldn't have time for the grubby business of worldly politics. Of course, to today's Christians, Jesus' kingdom will be established on Earth as soon as every elected office in America is held by Bible Thumping Republicans.

Did you know that your questions are fully asked and answered in painstakingly detail in the first and second posts of this thread, within the accompanying links?

No, my challenge was: "Where did Jesus instruct His followers to set up earthly political nations, where they can lord over and dominate everyone else?" No answer to that in those first two posts, or anywhere else in this thread.
Remember this?
5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.” (Luke 4: 5-7) One thing I find interesting about that exchange is at no time did Jesus dispute that those kingdoms did belong to Satan.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Can anyone find a direct quote by Thomas Jefferson that reads this way in these exact words. If you do I will no longer post to this thread.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

"Christianity" has gone down many paths over the centuries. Most have been complete bullshit by select interpretations of a quote or three of scripture

he is one of the demons. LOL Sweetheart, love your eyes, etc, he is in it for the money.

He is a very real devil. I can't listen to him any longer. He is so full of BS.

You are very funny. You couldn't make a rational argument and left, but came back at the urging of another poster to try and troll me at a personal level. That approach where you gang up on someone after the work has been done is unethical, at best. Then, to attack me and claim it's all about the money???? LMAO.

I went back to school and graduated a little over a year ago (and I was well over 60 when I graduated.) The first Bible College I went to and every church I've belonged to did not beg for money nor pass a collection plate. In the church exists a deposit box and if anyone is moved by the Holy Spirit, they could leave tithes there or send the money in. I don't pass collection plates nor ask for money.

I do visit the sick, help the disenfranchised get jobs, and help people in general with free counseling sessions, giving eulogies, performing weddings, etc. Never asked for a nickel.

At the beginning of last year I took a 96 year old woman into my home and had to care for her around the clock. Her own family wouldn't. My wife went to this woman's house to give her a bath and cockroaches fled from her rectum and bathrobe. And so, my wife brought her here, bathed her and I would help get her to the bathroom and to bed... and I made her breakfast and lunch while my wife made dinner in the evening. Unfortunately, she fell, broke her hip and passed away in the hospital. But, I never asked for nor was I offered anything by any member of her family (or anyone else for that matter) - and one of the sons goes on cruises while the other was having a pool put in his backyard during all of this.

After she passed, I did take one of her grandson's in as he was homeless. He didn't want to work and attacked me in my home. At the end of the fight, he had his wrist broken in two places and a fractured arm. So, he's gone. And, as fate would have it, my wife let some autistic kid sleep here last night after he had some kind of blow up with a family member. Now, I have to get involved in his life.

Having said all of that, if there is a way to turn my service into a money making proposition, by all means do share. When you help the needy, NOBODY has any money. I'd be most appreciative if you can explain how my efforts can translate into money. If not, your criticisms aren't worth much.

See my avatar, that is the pic of the Father (Emperor Vespasian) , the son (Emperor Titus) and the Holy Ghost (Emperor Domitian), the father and 2 sons.

Do you believe in the virgin birth?? Still??

Penelope,

Throughout this thread, my critics keep yapping about a "separation of church and state." Contradictory to their efforts to disprove the basis of my thread, they (including you) want to delve into denominational divisiveness. Don't you see your post as a bit hypocritical?

Week in and week out Christians and non-Christians alike are trying to make the decision for other individuals as to who does and who does not qualify as a Christian. They apply their own standards, set their own bars, and then if you don't agree with them, you're not a Christian.

If you believe in the Rapture you're a heathen; if you don't, you're a heathen. If you support the virgin birth you're which? What about whether a person observes the Sabbath on Saturday or vice versa? Will one or the other preclude you from being a Christian?

Our system of government was intended to put all Christians on equal footing, treating them the same... something you've tried to avoid since you think my views would not be up to your standards. There is no right answer as you seek to be judge, jury and executioner of anyone who does not meet your personal standards. But, for me, I do not have the luxury of judging any person's relationship with their God. Christians might be using terminology like Divine Providence, Yahweh, Jehovah, Jesus, Jesus Christ... it makes no difference.

"13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Cæsarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven" Matthew 16: 13 - 17

 

[Jitss617]

I’m Reading a Sam Adams biography by Ira stoll.. Christianity was huge in his life and played a huge role in his determination for independence

 

[Porter Rockwell]

America was founded as a Christian nation. It was taken over by secularists in 1962 on the basis of a personal letter written by a founding father, but interpreted to mean opposite of what he meant.

In law, personal letters have no authority, but America was taken over by a de facto / illegal / unconstitutional government that empowered non-whites and non-Christians that savor every moment that they are able to attack the principles upon which the Republic rests. These people have assaulted the family unit, brought us to the time spoken of in Isaiah 5: 20 - 24.

Instead of talking about the OP, we end up on slavery every time. The atheists, communists, and secularists pick that hill to die on. But, their problem will always remain: in the political realm, they always vote for slave masters as their leaders. They even stabbed those who saved them in the back.

We end up on slavery because some of us think slavery is inimical to Christian values. A Christian nation should follow the teachings of Jesus. If it doesn't, then it's not a Christian nation, ne c'est pas? Of course, if we're wrong please enlighten us. Show us where Jesus wanted black people beaten, whipped and forced to pick cotton.

It's obvious that you don't have the facts since your presuppositions are wrong across the board. You hate Christians. Got it. You still support slavery at every opportunity. Start your own thread.

I support slavery? Moi? I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist, the one political philosophy absolutely antithetical to the concept of slavery. One more thing. Where did Jesus instruct His followers to set up earthly political nations, where they can lord over and dominate everyone else? I do remember Him saying that His Kingdom was not part of this World, and that Christians should be seeking His Kingdom first. If they were doing that they wouldn't have time for the grubby business of worldly politics. Of course, to today's Christians, Jesus' kingdom will be established on Earth as soon as every elected office in America is held by Bible Thumping Republicans.

Did you know that your questions are fully asked and answered in painstakingly detail in the first and second posts of this thread, within the accompanying links?

No, my challenge was: "Where did Jesus instruct His followers to set up earthly political nations, where they can lord over and dominate everyone else?" No answer to that in those first two posts, or anywhere else in this thread.
Remember this?
5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.” (Luke 4: 5-7) One thing I find interesting about that exchange is at no time did Jesus dispute that those kingdoms did belong to Satan.

I don't care what your challenge is, I'm not here to debate denominational divisiveness. No Christian would do that with on this thread. Besides, your challenge is not applicable to the thread. Neither have you read the first few posts and formulated a coherent response to the issue. I'm not going to help you derail my thread. If you have a separate subject, start another thread.

Your challenge IS answered in the first couple of posts and the links therein. If you don't know how to access links, PM me and I will go over it with you step by step. America is not set up to "lord" over anyone. If you read the freaking links, you would understand why America was founded.

 

[Bezukhov]

I’m Reading a Sam Adams biography by Ira stoll.. Christianity was huge in his life and played a huge role in his determination for independence

Good thing Sam's Bible was missing this verse:
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. (Romans 13:1)

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Bezukhov wants to revisit questions he's already asked. I found some correlation to my original posts at the beginning of this thread and I showed Bezukhov that many various denominations are still in line with the founders concept of America. Bezukhov refuses to access links and ignore the answers to his questions. This is how I replied to him back in post # 68 (IIRC):

You should try reading the thread. Here are some of our stopping points:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

That is the most important link on this thread and it was in the first two posts. You didn't even read that far??? Here are some more:

The Old Jerusalem is Not the New JerUSAlem

http://www.kimmillerconcernedchristians.com/Unsealings/1425.pdf

Founders Online: To George Washington from the Members of the New Jerusalem Chu …

https://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44517596.pdf

Apocalypticism Explained | Apocalypse! FRONTLINE | PBS

Our Father's Kingdom of America: America the New Jerusalem

New Jerusalem

Full text of "Sheldon Emry-The Marks Of Israel"

The premise of this thread is to show that America was founded as a Christian nation. The above links show that premise to be accurate and that the belief that not only were we founded on Christian principles, but America was the New Jerusalem.

Now, can we return to the OP? You really aren't even going to click on the links anyway.

(Bezukhov didn't... just as I said he wouldn't. He just sees an opportunity for leftists to jump on his bandwagon. His philosophy, unless I missed the cue, is that the enemy of his enemy is his friend. Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I’m Reading a Sam Adams biography by Ira stoll.. Christianity was huge in his life and played a huge role in his determination for independence

Good thing Sam's Bible was missing this verse:
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. (Romans 13:1)

Great topic actually relevant to this thread:

There is a very excellent primer on understanding this subject from the perspective of the founders and framers. It is called "The Light and the Glory" by Peter Marshall and David Manuel. I'd like to quote a few paragraphs of that book from page 254 in response to what you said:

"When does tyranny become tyranny? Is there a time when it is not only morally correct but the will of God for one to resist legally constituted authority? When does the "Lord's Anointed" lose his anointing? When did it become God's will for America to throw off the yoke of Britain? Was it God's will at all?

Of all the questions we faced, this last was the one we dreaded the most. For a strong case could be made against America's ever having come out from the mother country's authority. If God did intend this land to be a a new Israel, then each major step in the implementation of this plan would have to conform to His righteousness. A holy end, no matter how sublime, could never justify unholy means.

The more we debated this, the more mired down we became. So we prayed to be shown the way out of this mental swamp. And that same morning in Florida, in which we had been unable to discern the true nature of the Puritans call, the Holy Spirit went on to show us why America had to resist - why, for them to do anything less would have been the greatest disobedience. This part of the revelation began with a verse of Scripture coming to Peter's mind, which when we looked it up, was Galatians 5 : 1 and which proved to be the key to all that followed:

"For Freedom Christ has set us free: stand fast, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery"

Well, as you can see, that book will be very revealing to you should you want the right answer to your question.

 

[Bezukhov]

Bezukhov wants to revisit questions he's already asked. I found some correlation to my original posts at the beginning of this thread and I showed Bezukhov that many various denominations are still in line with the founders concept of America. Bezukhov refuses to access links and ignore the answers to his questions. This is how I replied to him back in post # 68 (IIRC):

You should try reading the thread. Here are some of our stopping points:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

That is the most important link on this thread and it was in the first two posts. You didn't even read that far??? Here are some more:

The Old Jerusalem is Not the New JerUSAlem

http://www.kimmillerconcernedchristians.com/Unsealings/1425.pdf

Founders Online: To George Washington from the Members of the New Jerusalem Chu …

https://www.americanantiquarian.org/proceedings/44517596.pdf

Apocalypticism Explained | Apocalypse! FRONTLINE | PBS

Our Father's Kingdom of America: America the New Jerusalem

New Jerusalem

Full text of "Sheldon Emry-The Marks Of Israel"

The premise of this thread is to show that America was founded as a Christian nation. The above links show that premise to be accurate and that the belief that not only were we founded on Christian principles, but America was the New Jerusalem.

Now, can we return to the OP? You really aren't even going to click on the links anyway.

(Bezukhov didn't... just as I said he wouldn't. He just sees an opportunity for leftists to jump on his bandwagon. His philosophy, unless I missed the cue, is that the enemy of his enemy is his friend. Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

None of those links answered this question: "Where did Jesus instruct His followers to set up earthly political nations, where they can lord over and dominate everyone else?"
If it was so damn important that Christians seize and wield worldly political power why didn't Jesus set them up when He was walking on earth?

Surely the nations are like a drop in a bucket; they are regarded as dust on the scales; he weighs the islands as though they were fine dust.
(Isaiah 40:15)

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
(Revelation 16: 14-16)
( Notice it didn't say "Except for Amurica"~~Bez)

 

[Bezukhov]

I’m Reading a Sam Adams biography by Ira stoll.. Christianity was huge in his life and played a huge role in his determination for independence

Good thing Sam's Bible was missing this verse:
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. (Romans 13:1)

Great topic actually relevant to this thread:

There is a very excellent primer on understanding this subject from the perspective of the founders and framers. It is called "The Light and the Glory" by Peter Marshall and David Manuel. I'd like to quote a few paragraphs of that book from page 254 in response to what you said:

"When does tyranny become tyranny? Is there a time when it is not only morally correct but the will of God for one to resist legally constituted authority? When does the "Lord's Anointed" lose his anointing? When did it become God's will for America to throw off the yoke of Britain? Was it God's will at all?

Of all the questions we faced, this last was the one we dreaded the most. For a strong case could be made against America's ever having come out from the mother country's authority. If God did intend this land to be a a new Israel, then each major step in the implementation of this plan would have to conform to His righteousness. A holy end, no matter how sublime, could never justify unholy means.

The more we debated this, the more mired down we became. So we prayed to be shown the way out of this mental swamp. And that same morning in Florida, in which we had been unable to discern the true nature of the Puritans call, the Holy Spirit went on to show us why America had to resist - why, for them to do anything less would have been the greatest disobedience. This part of the revelation began with a verse of Scripture coming to Peter's mind, which when we looked it up, was Galatians 5 : 1 and which proved to be the key to all that followed:

"For Freedom Christ has set us free: stand fast, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery"

Well, as you can see, that book will be very revealing to you should you want the right answer to your question.

This is about the lead up to the American Revolution? That cracked me up! A bunch of slave owners complaining about being slaves. Well, Jesus love hypocrites. Hypocrites are the best kind of people to found Christian Nations.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#860 to #198

Christianity is a part of our culture and heritage. Every couple of years you have non-Christian religions and non-believers wanting to change our heritage; our national identity; our culture.

YES, Christianity is a part of our culture and heritage. And specifically, Protestant-Christian Deist-Christian, Unitarian and Deist, highly educated men, imbued in the Enlightenment influence of the time, established a new nation, founded upon many bedrock principles. One key principle was radical at the time. It was the Separation of Church and State.

That is a huge part of our heritage, A new culture of freedom of religion and even freedom of conscience rose above centuries of religious divisions and wars. A multi-cultural society was born.

As a result, Catholic Christians, Jewish people, atheists, Buddhists, free thinkers, non-Christians, Muslims, Native Americans, Agnostics, Hindu, and many other religions and non-believers were free to create our heritage; our national identity.

We are a Great Nation today because of it. Thank You Jefferson and Madison and all founders for our culture and our heritage.