America Founded as a Christian Nation

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Contrary to the claims made by some from the Religious Right, America was not founded as a Christian Nation which was then later undermined by godless liberals and humanists. Just the opposite is the case, actually. The Constitution is a godless document and the government of the United States was set up as a formally secular institution. It has, however, been undermined by well-meaning Christians who have sought to subvert its secular principles and framework for the sake of this or that "good cause," usually in the interest of promoting this or that religious doctrine.
It’s a Myth That America Is a Christian Nation
What's not a myth is that 99% of the Continental and First Congress in America were Christian trained and taught inside Christian church buildings by the most learned men about, who were Christian ministers.

The reason the founders did not name Christianity to be the only acceptable religion is because their funding for armed forces was at least 70% provided by Jewish settlers who saved their money and invested it well enough to be willing to give it all to forming a new country that would accept them. The Jewish community also dispelled the notion that Jews were "the enemy" by being the generous people they still are in this nation, funding educational, cultural, and medical benefits to all, regardless of religion or lack of it. Their kindly nature gave Americans the kind of trust that builds unlike people to unite under one flag.

And General George Washington never forgot who got them through the last phase of the Revolutionary War by providing food, leather shoes, and clothing for his troops.

In my lifetime, we had a taste of that in another general who became President of the USA, whose name was Dwight Eisenhower, who was placed in charge of Allied forces who came to Europe to beat back Hitler's best. So proficient were the Germans that it took us years to beat them back.

When General Eisenhower's decisions won the war, he came back home and ran for President in the early 50's. He ran on a Republican ticket, but so many people liked him he won easily, and when he did, his rule was one that made certain his troops were taken care of, be they black, white, yellow, or red, and he also fought for and won equal educational opportunities for blacks, who had his highest regard for the way black people served in his forces--they were bright, strong men with a determination to beat the foe along with the best in America of other ethnic backgrounds. And he made sure these brave fighters got equal educational and job opportunities on his watch.

And as busy as he was, he and Mamie were frequently seen at the Presbyterian Church in Washington, asking God for guidance in a nation of people from all backgrounds.

Well most were from the France and Britain, both Christian nations, so its makes sense Christianity was the main religion since the beginning of this nation.

you need a link for this :
was at least 70% provided by Jewish settlers who saved their money and invested it well enough to be willing to give it all to forming a new country that would accept them. The Jewish community also dispelled the notion that Jews were "the enemy" by being the generous people they still are in this nation, funding educational, cultural, and medical benefits to all, regardless of religion or lack of it. Their kindly nature gave Americans the kind of trust that builds unlike people to unite under one flag.
 
Complete utter B.S. and an outright LIE. The Constitution had a provision for gradually phasing out the slave trade.





Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come


I think that it would be appropriate to point out that this nation, which you claim to be founded as a Christian nation, was also founded as a slave nation. That pretty much negates any positive Christian values that were involved during the founding.

Complete utter B.S. and an outright LIE. The Constitution had a provision for gradually phasing out the slave trade.

The Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (2 Stat. 426, enacted March 2, 1807) is a United States federal law that provided that no new slaves were permitted to be imported into the United States. It took effect in 1808, the earliest date permitted by the United States Constitution.

It didn't matter, they used domestic slaves and used children, and it took a civil war and it still didn't end, and it took the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and still it doesn't mean much. My gosh, women were not allowed to vote till 1920.
Some women were voting by acceptance of the Equality State (Wyoming) to the union in 1890. It took 30 years before all women got to vote for President, but they liked what they saw in that raw-boned state where women had to be sturdy as men to survive the winters, and the men so appreciated their sturdy wills to keep the home fire burning when they were out saving the cows from bad weather, they knew women were just as capable as they were, so they fought the powers that be and were willing not to join if their women were not accepted as equal partners in the vote. So the USA accepted this little concession in order to incorporate these friendly and loyal fellows into the union. That really was a feather in the cap for women and men in the other states to show that women were capable of thinking through issues and making good vote decisions. So voting rights for women fell from being if to when. :muahaha:
Contrary to the claims made by some from the Religious Right, America was not founded as a Christian Nation which was then later undermined by godless liberals and humanists. Just the opposite is the case, actually. The Constitution is a godless document and the government of the United States was set up as a formally secular institution. It has, however, been undermined by well-meaning Christians who have sought to subvert its secular principles and framework for the sake of this or that "good cause," usually in the interest of promoting this or that religious doctrine.
It’s a Myth That America Is a Christian Nation
What's not a myth is that 99% of the Continental and First Congress in America were Christian trained and taught inside Christian church buildings by the most learned men about, who were Christian ministers.

The reason the founders did not name Christianity to be the only acceptable religion is because their funding for armed forces was at least 70% provided by Jewish settlers who saved their money and invested it well enough to be willing to give it all to forming a new country that would accept them. The Jewish community also dispelled the notion that Jews were "the enemy" by being the generous people they still are in this nation, funding educational, cultural, and medical benefits to all, regardless of religion or lack of it. Their kindly nature gave Americans the kind of trust that builds unlike people to unite under one flag.

And General George Washington never forgot who got them through the last phase of the Revolutionary War by providing food, leather shoes, and clothing for his troops.

In my lifetime, we had a taste of that in another general who became President of the USA, whose name was Dwight Eisenhower, who was placed in charge of Allied forces who came to Europe to beat back Hitler's best. So proficient were the Germans that it took us years to beat them back.

When General Eisenhower's decisions won the war, he came back home and ran for President in the early 50's. He ran on a Republican ticket, but so many people liked him he won easily, and when he did, his rule was one that made certain his troops were taken care of, be they black, white, yellow, or red, and he also fought for and won equal educational opportunities for blacks, who had his highest regard for the way black people served in his forces--they were bright, strong men with a determination to beat the foe along with the best in America of other ethnic backgrounds. And he made sure these brave fighters got equal educational and job opportunities on his watch.

And as busy as he was, he and Mamie were frequently seen at the Presbyterian Church in Washington, asking God for guidance in a nation of people from all backgrounds.

Well most were from the France and Britain, both Christian nations, so its makes sense Christianity was the main religion since the beginning of this nation.

you need a link for this :
was at least 70% provided by Jewish settlers who saved their money and invested it well enough to be willing to give it all to forming a new country that would accept them. The Jewish community also dispelled the notion that Jews were "the enemy" by being the generous people they still are in this nation, funding educational, cultural, and medical benefits to all, regardless of religion or lack of it. Their kindly nature gave Americans the kind of trust that builds unlike people to unite under one flag.



Why do you demand a link? Is there any chance that the information will have any impact on anything you say or do or think?
 
Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come


I think that it would be appropriate to point out that this nation, which you claim to be founded as a Christian nation, was also founded as a slave nation. That pretty much negates any positive Christian values that were involved during the founding.

Complete utter B.S. and an outright LIE. The Constitution had a provision for gradually phasing out the slave trade.

The Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (2 Stat. 426, enacted March 2, 1807) is a United States federal law that provided that no new slaves were permitted to be imported into the United States. It took effect in 1808, the earliest date permitted by the United States Constitution.

It didn't matter, they used domestic slaves and used children, and it took a civil war and it still didn't end, and it took the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and still it doesn't mean much. My gosh, women were not allowed to vote till 1920.

America was intended to be a white country. You're in the wrong forum now. See this:

America founded by whites... for whites
 
Contrary to the claims made by some from the Religious Right, America was not founded as a Christian Nation which was then later undermined by godless liberals and humanists. Just the opposite is the case, actually. The Constitution is a godless document and the government of the United States was set up as a formally secular institution. It has, however, been undermined by well-meaning Christians who have sought to subvert its secular principles and framework for the sake of this or that "good cause," usually in the interest of promoting this or that religious doctrine.
It’s a Myth That America Is a Christian Nation

As a matter of fact, your article agrees with me on about 90 percent of the issues. I was starting to get to that point that the Constitution does have Christian principles contained therein before I had to go to bed. Watch for my next post.

No it doesn't, in the end America was set up as a secular country. The separation of Church and State still exists, but the Evans are working to make this a Christian nation and then watch out. It never was and never will be.


America was set up to NOT have an Established Religion, of the State.


THat does not require that the nation as a whole, and/or the people be secular.


Your statement, is structured as though your words support your conclusion, but they actually don't.

It was set up as a secular nation, freedom of religion.

What is you don't understand by this:

and the government of the United States was set up as a formally secular institution. It has, however, been undermined by well-meaning Christians who have sought to subvert its secular principles and framework for the sake of this or that "good cause," usually in the interest of promoting this or that religious doctrine.




Freedom OF religion, not Freedom FROM religion.


Once again, you don't seem to realize that your words do not support your conclusion.


YOu need a "secular" government, to avoid having an Established State Religion.


You do not need a secular nation to have freedom of religion.


There is nothing inherent in stating that America is a Christian nation that implies that non-Christians will not have complete freedom of religion.


You are not thinking about the meanings of the words you are using. Are they actually your words, or are you just repeating things you have heard?

Of course you need a secular nation to have Freedom of Religion. I rest my case.
 
THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BIBLE

In post # 2, I cited the state constitutions requiring one to be a Christian in order to hold elective office and in the ending paragraph, we discussed Article VI Paragraph III of the U.S. Constitution which requires all U.S. Senators and Representatives to be bound by an Oath or Affirmation. This is an oath, NOT a test (which would be prohibited.)

It seems pretty clear that the framers had no objection to the states requiring their politicians to be Christians. The other question is, can we find implications that the Constitution has biblical connections therein?

If you look at the early state constitutions Maryland had a tax "for the support of the Christian religion." Funny thing, THAT was not attacked by the framers in the Constitution, so there is lot to be said about what is NOT in the Constitution. NOTHING in the Constitution hampers the states from requiring their politicians to be Christians NOR taxing the people to educate the people regarding the Christian religion.

In a letter to Rev. Jasper Adams in 1833 regarding the "relations" Christianity has with the social, civil, and political "institutions" of America, Chief Justice John Marshall wrote:

"No person, I believe questions in importance of religion to the happiness of man even during the existence of this world... The American population is entirely Christian & with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange, indeed if, with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity & did not refer to it exhibit relations with it"

I mention that because it is one man's opinion (just as Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists was a private letter, neither of which are mandatory or even persuasive authority in a court of law.) BTW, Jefferson's separation of church and state means 180 degrees opposite of what the left claims.

Somewhere in the middle is the answer and I will continue to point these things out. There will be more posts on the biblical references in the Constitution.

Show us where god is mentioned in the Constitution and better yet Jesus, or Christianity?
 
Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come


I think that it would be appropriate to point out that this nation, which you claim to be founded as a Christian nation, was also founded as a slave nation. That pretty much negates any positive Christian values that were involved during the founding.

Complete utter B.S. and an outright LIE. The Constitution had a provision for gradually phasing out the slave trade.

The Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (2 Stat. 426, enacted March 2, 1807) is a United States federal law that provided that no new slaves were permitted to be imported into the United States. It took effect in 1808, the earliest date permitted by the United States Constitution.

It didn't matter, they used domestic slaves and used children, and it took a civil war and it still didn't end, and it took the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and still it doesn't mean much. My gosh, women were not allowed to vote till 1920.

America was intended to be a white country. You're in the wrong forum now. See this:

America founded by whites... for whites

I'm Caucasian, European white.
 
THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BIBLE

In post # 2, I cited the state constitutions requiring one to be a Christian in order to hold elective office and in the ending paragraph, we discussed Article VI Paragraph III of the U.S. Constitution which requires all U.S. Senators and Representatives to be bound by an Oath or Affirmation. This is an oath, NOT a test (which would be prohibited.)

It seems pretty clear that the framers had no objection to the states requiring their politicians to be Christians. The other question is, can we find implications that the Constitution has biblical connections therein?

If you look at the early state constitutions Maryland had a tax "for the support of the Christian religion." Funny thing, THAT was not attacked by the framers in the Constitution, so there is lot to be said about what is NOT in the Constitution. NOTHING in the Constitution hampers the states from requiring their politicians to be Christians NOR taxing the people to educate the people regarding the Christian religion.

In a letter to Rev. Jasper Adams in 1833 regarding the "relations" Christianity has with the social, civil, and political "institutions" of America, Chief Justice John Marshall wrote:

"No person, I believe questions in importance of religion to the happiness of man even during the existence of this world... The American population is entirely Christian & with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange, indeed if, with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity & did not refer to it exhibit relations with it"

I mention that because it is one man's opinion (just as Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists was a private letter, neither of which are mandatory or even persuasive authority in a court of law.) BTW, Jefferson's separation of church and state means 180 degrees opposite of what the left claims.

Somewhere in the middle is the answer and I will continue to point these things out. There will be more posts on the biblical references in the Constitution.

Show us where god is mentioned in the Constitution and better yet Jesus, or Christianity?

Damn Penelope, I'm going to. I just can't put the cart before the horse. We have not reached that point in my posts yet. Why not wait to see if I don't produce what I promise? OR, in the alternative do you want a thirty five paragraph post to give you context AND prove my point?

I'm not only going to disagree with you, but I'm adding context so that the false accusations will be shown to be exactly what they are. Do you not see that my posts are being revealed in chronological order?

Being a Christian nation does not mean we are a theocracy OR that you are compelled to respect the values this country was built on. Pray, don't pray. Sit on your ass when people do the Pledge of Allegiance. We have Liberty. We also have values that are predicated on something... like the Bible. So, our sense of right and wrong generally coincides with that Book.
 
Contrary to the claims made by some from the Religious Right, America was not founded as a Christian Nation which was then later undermined by godless liberals and humanists. Just the opposite is the case, actually. The Constitution is a godless document and the government of the United States was set up as a formally secular institution. It has, however, been undermined by well-meaning Christians who have sought to subvert its secular principles and framework for the sake of this or that "good cause," usually in the interest of promoting this or that religious doctrine.
It’s a Myth That America Is a Christian Nation
What's not a myth is that 99% of the Continental and First Congress in America were Christian trained and taught inside Christian church buildings by the most learned men about, who were Christian ministers.

The reason the founders did not name Christianity to be the only acceptable religion is because their funding for armed forces was at least 70% provided by Jewish settlers who saved their money and invested it well enough to be willing to give it all to forming a new country that would accept them. The Jewish community also dispelled the notion that Jews were "the enemy" by being the generous people they still are in this nation, funding educational, cultural, and medical benefits to all, regardless of religion or lack of it. Their kindly nature gave Americans the kind of trust that builds unlike people to unite under one flag.

And General George Washington never forgot who got them through the last phase of the Revolutionary War by providing food, leather shoes, and clothing for his troops.

In my lifetime, we had a taste of that in another general who became President of the USA, whose name was Dwight Eisenhower, who was placed in charge of Allied forces who came to Europe to beat back Hitler's best. So proficient were the Germans that it took us years to beat them back.

When General Eisenhower's decisions won the war, he came back home and ran for President in the early 50's. He ran on a Republican ticket, but so many people liked him he won easily, and when he did, his rule was one that made certain his troops were taken care of, be they black, white, yellow, or red, and he also fought for and won equal educational opportunities for blacks, who had his highest regard for the way black people served in his forces--they were bright, strong men with a determination to beat the foe along with the best in America of other ethnic backgrounds. And he made sure these brave fighters got equal educational and job opportunities on his watch.

And as busy as he was, he and Mamie were frequently seen at the Presbyterian Church in Washington, asking God for guidance in a nation of people from all backgrounds.

Well most were from the France and Britain, both Christian nations, so its makes sense Christianity was the main religion since the beginning of this nation.

you need a link for this :
was at least 70% provided by Jewish settlers who saved their money and invested it well enough to be willing to give it all to forming a new country that would accept them. The Jewish community also dispelled the notion that Jews were "the enemy" by being the generous people they still are in this nation, funding educational, cultural, and medical benefits to all, regardless of religion or lack of it. Their kindly nature gave Americans the kind of trust that builds unlike people to unite under one flag.
I recommend that you obtain and read Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.'s book, "The Almanac of American History," madam. You will find proof on or around pages 21 and 118-138. It's drudgery for some, but it was fun for me. The book has 636 pages, but I reccommend to understand the Revolutionary War, I gave you the right pages, and reading them will give you a greater understanding why funding played a most important role in Washington's success and subsequent popularity amongst the ragtag folk of the era. Happy reading. ;)
 
Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come


I think that it would be appropriate to point out that this nation, which you claim to be founded as a Christian nation, was also founded as a slave nation. That pretty much negates any positive Christian values that were involved during the founding.

Complete utter B.S. and an outright LIE. The Constitution had a provision for gradually phasing out the slave trade.

The Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (2 Stat. 426, enacted March 2, 1807) is a United States federal law that provided that no new slaves were permitted to be imported into the United States. It took effect in 1808, the earliest date permitted by the United States Constitution.

It didn't matter, they used domestic slaves and used children, and it took a civil war and it still didn't end, and it took the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and still it doesn't mean much. My gosh, women were not allowed to vote till 1920.

America was intended to be a white country. You're in the wrong forum now. See this:

America founded by whites... for whites

I'm Caucasian, European white.

Did I ask you what you are? Did you get your panties in a bunch over nothing? Or, do you not understand how this works? You see that part in red? Put your mouse over it and click. It will take you to the subject you just brought up.

Why do you keep posting and posting? Are you that insecure that my chronological order of posts will destroy what you think? Chill out. Take a Valium or something. I'm participating on two threads and trying to answer 72 replies. Give it a rest and be patient.
 
If indeed the argument OP is true, (and the documents provided do have merit) I think there's pretty conclusive evidence religion doesn't work as a governing principle. And I'm not real sure, as I'm not a biblical scholar, but did attend church and listen, where in the religion of christianity the principles of Double Standards and the use of forcing one to submit to your will came from. Not to mention the incessant lying and legal thieving.
That's not arguing the belief of founding, though I will, it's arguing the effectiveness.

The founding principle was "self evident truth"- "all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights, endowed by their Creator, among these are the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness- I've not seen or heard that preached in a christian sermon. Or protestant. Or catholic- though I'll admit to having never attended a catholic, methodist or lutheran or mormon or quaker church- my time was spent in The Church of Christ and Baptist congregations.

The founding principles are a life philosophy- either you get it or you don't. It isn't rocket science, it's not an esoteric adventure. However, if introduced, late in life, as Truth, it is vehemently denied, by religious people and non religious alike.

Religion, any religion, is a dogma, often times converted to a political dogma and vice versa. Our founding was, from what I can tell, an attempt to allow men to choose for themselves how they wanted to pursue their own interests without the previous tyrannical ruling of official oppressors in political office who often used religion as a tool to condemn unacceptable behavior. Unacceptable is questionable by any thinker.
The Constitution (after a lot of haggling) emerged as the founding document and doesn't say anything about a religion being a part of the deal. It does list some very specific powers granted- it doesn't say those are religious or even god like. They were very limited to help ensure a successful experiment of people governing themselves, not a religious dogma.

It's true the founders did think it would take virtuous men to being elected to pull it off. Virtuous doesn't mean religious.
In fact, religion has been a political tool and still is. I can remember the worry about JFK being a catholic- really? LOL

Virtue can come naturally but it can't be forced or coerced. Educating ones self is frowned on- yet here I am, my formal education stopping in the 9th grade, twice. I consider myself pretty virtuous, though not always so in my past. I also, in reflection, was trusting those whose actions (when scrutinized) were less than virtuous- can you say Manifest Destiny?

Religion is the oldest political tool on the books. Always has been and likely will be forever and ever, amen.
 
As a matter of fact, your article agrees with me on about 90 percent of the issues. I was starting to get to that point that the Constitution does have Christian principles contained therein before I had to go to bed. Watch for my next post.

No it doesn't, in the end America was set up as a secular country. The separation of Church and State still exists, but the Evans are working to make this a Christian nation and then watch out. It never was and never will be.


America was set up to NOT have an Established Religion, of the State.


THat does not require that the nation as a whole, and/or the people be secular.


Your statement, is structured as though your words support your conclusion, but they actually don't.

It was set up as a secular nation, freedom of religion.

What is you don't understand by this:

and the government of the United States was set up as a formally secular institution. It has, however, been undermined by well-meaning Christians who have sought to subvert its secular principles and framework for the sake of this or that "good cause," usually in the interest of promoting this or that religious doctrine.




Freedom OF religion, not Freedom FROM religion.


Once again, you don't seem to realize that your words do not support your conclusion.


YOu need a "secular" government, to avoid having an Established State Religion.


You do not need a secular nation to have freedom of religion.


There is nothing inherent in stating that America is a Christian nation that implies that non-Christians will not have complete freedom of religion.


You are not thinking about the meanings of the words you are using. Are they actually your words, or are you just repeating things you have heard?

Of course you need a secular nation to have Freedom of Religion. I rest my case.


Your flat assertion is not an argument.


There is nothing inherent is a nation being a religious nation, that means that you do not have Freedom of Religion.


INdeed, we see that in our country though out all of it's history. By and large, we have been a very religious nation, especially compared to Europe, and yet by and large minority religions have been completely free to practice their faiths.


There is a Jewish neighborhood right next door to mine. We often go there for various reasons. We have always known that it is a Jewish neighbor hood, but we never expected nor received any type of discrimination or oppression.


And why would we? There is nothing inherent in stating "this is a jewish neighbor hood" or "this is a Christian nation" that means there will not be religious freedom in either.
 
I think that it would be appropriate to point out that this nation, which you claim to be founded as a Christian nation, was also founded as a slave nation. That pretty much negates any positive Christian values that were involved during the founding.

Complete utter B.S. and an outright LIE. The Constitution had a provision for gradually phasing out the slave trade.

The Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (2 Stat. 426, enacted March 2, 1807) is a United States federal law that provided that no new slaves were permitted to be imported into the United States. It took effect in 1808, the earliest date permitted by the United States Constitution.

It didn't matter, they used domestic slaves and used children, and it took a civil war and it still didn't end, and it took the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and still it doesn't mean much. My gosh, women were not allowed to vote till 1920.

America was intended to be a white country. You're in the wrong forum now. See this:

America founded by whites... for whites

I'm Caucasian, European white.

Did I ask you what you are? Did you get your panties in a bunch over nothing? Or, do you not understand how this works? You see that part in red? Put your mouse over it and click. It will take you to the subject you just brought up.

Why do you keep posting and posting? Are you that insecure that my chronological order of posts will destroy what you think? Chill out. Take a Valium or something. I'm participating on two threads and trying to answer 72 replies. Give it a rest and be patient.

No but you inferred it. I hit on your link and I find it appalling.
 
Complete utter B.S. and an outright LIE. The Constitution had a provision for gradually phasing out the slave trade.

The Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (2 Stat. 426, enacted March 2, 1807) is a United States federal law that provided that no new slaves were permitted to be imported into the United States. It took effect in 1808, the earliest date permitted by the United States Constitution.

It didn't matter, they used domestic slaves and used children, and it took a civil war and it still didn't end, and it took the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and still it doesn't mean much. My gosh, women were not allowed to vote till 1920.

America was intended to be a white country. You're in the wrong forum now. See this:

America founded by whites... for whites

I'm Caucasian, European white.

Did I ask you what you are? Did you get your panties in a bunch over nothing? Or, do you not understand how this works? You see that part in red? Put your mouse over it and click. It will take you to the subject you just brought up.

Why do you keep posting and posting? Are you that insecure that my chronological order of posts will destroy what you think? Chill out. Take a Valium or something. I'm participating on two threads and trying to answer 72 replies. Give it a rest and be patient.

No but you inferred it. I hit on your link and I find it appalling.


Do you find it appalling enough to actually try to refute his points?


Or will this be more of a deflect and distraction operation?
 
It didn't matter, they used domestic slaves and used children, and it took a civil war and it still didn't end, and it took the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and still it doesn't mean much. My gosh, women were not allowed to vote till 1920.

America was intended to be a white country. You're in the wrong forum now. See this:

America founded by whites... for whites

I'm Caucasian, European white.

Did I ask you what you are? Did you get your panties in a bunch over nothing? Or, do you not understand how this works? You see that part in red? Put your mouse over it and click. It will take you to the subject you just brought up.

Why do you keep posting and posting? Are you that insecure that my chronological order of posts will destroy what you think? Chill out. Take a Valium or something. I'm participating on two threads and trying to answer 72 replies. Give it a rest and be patient.

No but you inferred it. I hit on your link and I find it appalling.


Do you find it appalling enough to actually try to refute his points?


Or will this be more of a deflect and distraction operation?

Actually Penelope's first attempt to refute what I posted actually confirmed 90 percent of my posts. The only disagreement was whether or not God was mentioned in the Bible and I went further showing a couple more references that would lead an objective reader to come to the conclusion that Christians interjected their influence into that document several times.

The fact that the Constitution never outlawed the many laws I've referenced at the state level that existed at the time makes Penelope's arguments moot. Indeed, if America had been founded strictly as a secular nation, the framers would have outlawed and denounced the thousands of Christian laws at the state level.
 
Complete utter B.S. and an outright LIE. The Constitution had a provision for gradually phasing out the slave trade.

The Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (2 Stat. 426, enacted March 2, 1807) is a United States federal law that provided that no new slaves were permitted to be imported into the United States. It took effect in 1808, the earliest date permitted by the United States Constitution.

It didn't matter, they used domestic slaves and used children, and it took a civil war and it still didn't end, and it took the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and still it doesn't mean much. My gosh, women were not allowed to vote till 1920.

America was intended to be a white country. You're in the wrong forum now. See this:

America founded by whites... for whites

I'm Caucasian, European white.

Did I ask you what you are? Did you get your panties in a bunch over nothing? Or, do you not understand how this works? You see that part in red? Put your mouse over it and click. It will take you to the subject you just brought up.

Why do you keep posting and posting? Are you that insecure that my chronological order of posts will destroy what you think? Chill out. Take a Valium or something. I'm participating on two threads and trying to answer 72 replies. Give it a rest and be patient.

No but you inferred it. I hit on your link and I find it appalling.

I don't always agree with every single point of every link I'm forced to use. It's idiotic for you to expect that. A lot of what I know is in m law library and it takes hours sometimes to find individual laws and so forth that I know exist, but take time to find and prove. Secondly, you don't want the truth. You got your panties in a bunch and worked the Hell out of me. I cannot do that much research and cover the world in the little time you allot me to respond.

But, if you find the truth appalling, I'm doing something right since you have no way to refute the few points your link agreed with me on. Your first link confirmed my arguments save of that God wasn't mentioned in the Constitution. Maybe now that we're over that hump, you might consider a little slower pace? OR are you really that insecure? You demanded the quickie response.

You posted TEN RESPONSES TO THIS THREAD IN A SINGLE HOUR!
 
America was intended to be a white country. You're in the wrong forum now. See this:

America founded by whites... for whites

I'm Caucasian, European white.

Did I ask you what you are? Did you get your panties in a bunch over nothing? Or, do you not understand how this works? You see that part in red? Put your mouse over it and click. It will take you to the subject you just brought up.

Why do you keep posting and posting? Are you that insecure that my chronological order of posts will destroy what you think? Chill out. Take a Valium or something. I'm participating on two threads and trying to answer 72 replies. Give it a rest and be patient.

No but you inferred it. I hit on your link and I find it appalling.


Do you find it appalling enough to actually try to refute his points?


Or will this be more of a deflect and distraction operation?

Actually Penelope's first attempt to refute what I posted actually confirmed 90 percent of my posts. The only disagreement was whether or not God was mentioned in the Bible and I went further showing a couple more references that would lead an objective reader to come to the conclusion that Christians interjected their influence into that document several times.

The fact that the Constitution never outlawed the many laws I've referenced at the state level that existed at the time makes Penelope's arguments moot. Indeed, if America had been founded strictly as a secular nation, the framers would have outlawed and denounced the thousands of Christian laws at the state level.



Your point about the Founders ignoring the existing laws of the states, is a good one I have only heard made a few times before.


Penelope, like most liberals, has a very weak grasp on the concept of logical debate and/or the competition of ideas.


THat being said, i do hope that some liberal(s) manage to present their side better than we have seen so far.


Otherwise, this will be a lot like clubbing baby seals. It might be fun and bloody, but it does not actually mean that you won a debate, more that you crushed defenseless and helpless victims.
 
I'm Caucasian, European white.

Did I ask you what you are? Did you get your panties in a bunch over nothing? Or, do you not understand how this works? You see that part in red? Put your mouse over it and click. It will take you to the subject you just brought up.

Why do you keep posting and posting? Are you that insecure that my chronological order of posts will destroy what you think? Chill out. Take a Valium or something. I'm participating on two threads and trying to answer 72 replies. Give it a rest and be patient.

No but you inferred it. I hit on your link and I find it appalling.


Do you find it appalling enough to actually try to refute his points?


Or will this be more of a deflect and distraction operation?

Actually Penelope's first attempt to refute what I posted actually confirmed 90 percent of my posts. The only disagreement was whether or not God was mentioned in the Bible and I went further showing a couple more references that would lead an objective reader to come to the conclusion that Christians interjected their influence into that document several times.

The fact that the Constitution never outlawed the many laws I've referenced at the state level that existed at the time makes Penelope's arguments moot. Indeed, if America had been founded strictly as a secular nation, the framers would have outlawed and denounced the thousands of Christian laws at the state level.



Your point about the Founders ignoring the existing laws of the states, is a good one I have only heard made a few times before.


Penelope, like most liberals, has a very weak grasp on the concept of logical debate and/or the competition of ideas.


THat being said, i do hope that some liberal(s) manage to present their side better than we have seen so far.


Otherwise, this will be a lot like clubbing baby seals. It might be fun and bloody, but it does not actually mean that you won a debate, more that you crushed defenseless and helpless victims.

I think these people are mis-educated and misguided. Penelope cited a link that pretty much summed up what is meant by a Christian nation to a certain point.

Being a Christian nation does not mean we live in a theocracy and the best analogy I can give the atheist to understand the concept goes back to when I was a child.

When I was very young, my parents would work me to death. I only had four hours of tv per week: Thursday nights and Saturday afternoon. My favorite show came on Thursday night. It was "Alias Smith and Jones." Then it would get preempted by NFL games during football season. To say it pissed me off would be an understatement.

I hated football because of that. Still won't watch it. But, it is America's prevailing past time so whether we like it or not, it is a part of American culture. Not once have I felt compelled to get interested in football and not once did I feel people look down on me because I don't care for it.

Likewise, having the Ten Commandments posted will not convert a person to become a Christian. OTOH, making Christians feel like they are not worthy of the name American because they believe AND by censoring their views you encourage them to turn against their own culture.

If they have a prayer group in school and you don't participate, nobody is going to judge your value as a human being. If you don't want to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, don't participate. At the same time, don't try to prevent others from observing their customs. The First Amendment protects the Freedom OF Religion not the Freedom FROM Religion. And if we had any separation of church and state, the IRS would not be issuing a tax exempt status to churches that preach secular humanism while taxing churches whose tenets of faith offend the federal government and / or its protected classes. If we are separate, we are separate... right?
 
Did I ask you what you are? Did you get your panties in a bunch over nothing? Or, do you not understand how this works? You see that part in red? Put your mouse over it and click. It will take you to the subject you just brought up.

Why do you keep posting and posting? Are you that insecure that my chronological order of posts will destroy what you think? Chill out. Take a Valium or something. I'm participating on two threads and trying to answer 72 replies. Give it a rest and be patient.

No but you inferred it. I hit on your link and I find it appalling.


Do you find it appalling enough to actually try to refute his points?


Or will this be more of a deflect and distraction operation?

Actually Penelope's first attempt to refute what I posted actually confirmed 90 percent of my posts. The only disagreement was whether or not God was mentioned in the Bible and I went further showing a couple more references that would lead an objective reader to come to the conclusion that Christians interjected their influence into that document several times.

The fact that the Constitution never outlawed the many laws I've referenced at the state level that existed at the time makes Penelope's arguments moot. Indeed, if America had been founded strictly as a secular nation, the framers would have outlawed and denounced the thousands of Christian laws at the state level.



Your point about the Founders ignoring the existing laws of the states, is a good one I have only heard made a few times before.


Penelope, like most liberals, has a very weak grasp on the concept of logical debate and/or the competition of ideas.


THat being said, i do hope that some liberal(s) manage to present their side better than we have seen so far.


Otherwise, this will be a lot like clubbing baby seals. It might be fun and bloody, but it does not actually mean that you won a debate, more that you crushed defenseless and helpless victims.

I think these people are mis-educated and misguided. Penelope cited a link that pretty much summed up what is meant by a Christian nation to a certain point.

Being a Christian nation does not mean we live in a theocracy and the best analogy I can give the atheist to understand the concept goes back to when I was a child.

When I was very young, my parents would work me to death. I only had four hours of tv per week: Thursday nights and Saturday afternoon. My favorite show came on Thursday night. It was "Alias Smith and Jones." Then it would get preempted by NFL games during football season. To say it pissed me off would be an understatement.

I hated football because of that. Still won't watch it. But, it is America's prevailing past time so whether we like it or not, it is a part of American culture. Not once have I felt compelled to get interested in football and not once did I feel people look down on me because I don't care for it.

Likewise, having the Ten Commandments posted will not convert a person to become a Christian. OTOH, making Christians feel like they are not worthy of the name American because they believe AND by censoring their views you encourage them to turn against their own culture.

If they have a prayer group in school and you don't participate, nobody is going to judge your value as a human being. If you don't want to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, don't participate. At the same time, don't try to prevent others from observing their customs. The First Amendment protects the Freedom OF Religion not the Freedom FROM Religion. And if we had any separation of church and state, the IRS would not be issuing a tax exempt status to churches that preach secular humanism while taxing churches whose tenets of faith offend the federal government and / or its protected classes. If we are separate, we are separate... right?



Mostly agree. The government playing favorites with tax except status is not a flaw of the concept but a failure of implementation.


(for me, Football preempted Star Trek. Very painful)
 
America was still founded as a Christian nation

I wanted to address one thing for Penelope before I move along to prove my original thesis.

The first Naturalization Act specified that only white people could become citizens in this country. Still people poured in by the millions to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. Misguided Christians thought we could share our unique heritage and historical experiences with the rest of the world. Modern Christianity even began incorporating pagan customs into the church. The Catholics "christianizing" (for lack of a more descriptive adjective) Saturnalia and calling it Christmas is a good example.

Penelope also found fault with the mention of Jews and I did call them out in the thread America was founded as a white nation (in the race forum here.) The Jews invested heavily into America. It was a sure bet. They also invested heavily in slavery; they were war profiteers; they even tried to influence the Christian founders and framers. The way it's dealt with is to make the Jews as bullet-proof as the other protected classes. Hang a label around it and dare anyone to call them out equally to be held accountable. And then the denials... there weren't that many of them, for example. When you were a Haym Solomon (the colonists version of Mike Bloomberg) it don't make many to make a big financial impact.

Add to that this guy was also a Freemason that had the ear of fellow Mason, George Washington. But, Penelope would be well advised that God worked through a lot of evil people to get his work done. Saul of Tarsus (aka Paul) was a tax collector as was Matthew while Judas Iscariot (an ethnic non-Israelite "Jew") were apostles... though Jesus did know that Judas would betray him for thirty pieces of silver. I've always thought Jesus did that to illustrate the danger of befriending profiteers and banksters. But, I digress.
 
America was still founded as a Christian nation

A continuation of posts # 1 , 2, 7, 17, and 35 (plus others)

If we start with some of America's founding documents, we begin to get a picture of what we mean when we say America was founded as Christian nation. In the Declaration of Independence, we find these words:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

If America could be summed up in one word, it would be Liberty. It was the battle cry that, after much debate, stirred the colonists up to the point that 56 men were willing to sign onto the Declaration of Independence, pledging to each other their Lives, their Fortunes, and their Sacred Honor. Imagine trying to get 56 men today to sign a document like that in support of Liberty today!

The most important things to consider about the Declaration of Independence:

1) The Declaration of Independence starts out with a presupposition that we have a Creator. This is just an observation, but those are the words of Thomas Jefferson penned. That simply does not sound too secular to me

2) This Creator (your God, whomever you deem that to be) bestowed upon you, at birth, unalienable Rights (of which the secularists helped to abolish recently.) Those Rights were God given, inherent, natural, absolute, irrevocable, unalienable and above the law (see
Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394 (1859) ) as one example

3) Among those Rights was Liberty. Liberty was a concept that Jefferson understood from a Christian perspective. Jefferson stated:

"...nothing then is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man." Letter to John Cartwright 5 June 1824)

Secularism cannot accept that premise, so to pretend Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian is laughable. Liberty is an unalienable Right. If that Right is given by a Creator, then you have to believe in a God in order to make such an assertion. And THAT should have as much authority as an out of context statement Jefferson made to the Danbury Baptists - that means 180 degrees of what unbelievers think - IF you read that letter in its full context.

II Corinthians 3 : 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
 
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