America Divided

[OCA]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Oh I agree with you regarding the reporter. As I said before, this is the type of thinking that has dominated our news reports and newspapers for at least 50 years. Your earlier post about what you see wrong in society, you don't have to look much further.

I think it has to do with more than liberalism although that very well could be the seed that all these problems have sprung from. Technology for example, could it be that we have too much? The last couple of generations haven't had to do much in the way of hard labor, hell they don't play outside all that much. They are either on the pc or the video games. When I was my sons age(7) I was working hard feeding sheep and goats back on Crete(no jokes you bastards ). I also believe that Vietnam created a schism in this country that has never quite healed.

 

[Annie]

Could be what you're talking about. Kids have way too many organized activities, not enough where they have to figure out their own fun. Neighbors aren't around either, all working.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
Man Paulie, we are going to be partying pretty soon and I am not even your damn neighbor! what are you talking about it all going down the shitter? Hey after a couple coldies we will figure out ourselves how to right the ship! :alco:

Bro I know i'm just talking about how are society is starting to become less and less civilized lately. Yeah we will be partying no doubt but hey, something is wrong right here in our own nest. Too much infighting.

 

[Avatar4321]

Hey if we want to socialize why dont we throw a block party for the Presidents election or something.

my neighborhood is pretty open. we socialize quite a bit maybe its abnormal but its all good. through a bbq if you want to get your neighbors out of their shell. No one can turn down a nice burger or steak unless they are some sort of wacko.

 

[Annie]

Avatar, that sounds like a great idea! If you go to the Bush website there is a "Party for the President" section. It's pretty cool.

Now, I want to know about the victory celebrations. I'm hoping they're the first Tuesday in November this time!

 

[Faux Pas]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
And Hannity also reveals how it was never like this. Dems and Republicans always worked together on national security. They had a saying, "Politics stops at the water's edge."

To Dems, that doesn't mean anything anymore.

I agree, it's a Scorched Earth policy (destroy anything to get Bush out even if it destroys the entire counrty) on the part of many democrats, take Ted Kennedy for example... what kind of leader makes a public statement like this at a time of war?

'Shamefully, we now learn that Saddam's torture chambers reopened under new management: U.S. management.'

Ed Gillespie issued the following statement regarding that comment made by Senator Kennedy:

"What's worse than the blatant political exploitation is Senator Kennedy's using the aberrant acts of a few cruel guards to suggest the U.S armed services are engaging in the same systematic torture, rape and murder as one of the most brutal regimes in the history of the world." -Ed Gillespie

 

[Annie]

There is no doubt that the old days of 'We are all in this together' are gone. The Republican house added to the destruction, thought the Senate bent over backwards trying to maintain it. Teddy has signed the death knell.

 

[OCA]

Both sides are to blame for our current shithole politically. We Republicans would stop at nothing to take a dump in Bubba's wheaties. Granted the Lewinsky affair got all the attention it deserved and proved him to be the scumbag he really was but Whitewater? Hey we should've dumped that one way before Lewinsky, it was a waste of taxpayer money along with Travelgate etc. etc. Bubba was nothing if not a shrewd politician, he had his tracks covered good.

Now Democrats are paying Republicans back for all that plus stalled nominations, government shutdowns and the like. Where does this shit end? We as Republicans have to realize and this goes for Demos as well that when the opposite party has the power they are going to institute policies and nominate people for positions that are not going to be philisophically compatible to ya. Some will be so radical that you have to defeat them anyway but you've got to compromise somewhere, these positions have to be filled or else some job isn't getting done.

All this crap that the Demos are doing now really shouldn't be too surprising, one just need to look from 92-00 to see that its payback pure and simple. I thought though that it would stop at national security, guess I was wrong.

 

[dilloduck]

Agreed,OCA--- it appears that paybacks are was pushes the agenda these days and the party not in power seems to get more play. If absolute power corrupts absolutely what does half the power do? Makes our leaders look like a bunch of kids playing king of the hill. So much energy is wasted on this that crucial issues are put on the back burner. Then when the issue explodes everyone starts figuring out how to put the blame on the other side. I will vote for whoever can rise above this silly shit and at the same time protect national security

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by OCA
People,
When did America get so fucked up?

When our political system started getting so fucked up! I would say, around the early to mid 70's.

I cannot recommend this book enough, so those of you that are tired of hearing me praise it.... screw ya!

Anybody that wonders what has happened to America needs to read Fareed Zarkaria's book, "The Future of Freedom". This guy really has analyzed this subject to the core and, I believe, he has hit the nail on the head.

Now, I must warn you, the book is a difficult read, especially the first 100 pages or so. I like political books, so for me, it kept me interested. But he really doesn't start talking about modern America's politics until about page 161 (Chapter 5). He also does a great analysis on what is wrong with the Muslim (mostly Arab as he points out, as some other Muslim countries really are quite liberal politically speaking - Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc.).

I only have about 70 pages left but it is getting more interesting as I read along. At this point, he really is delving into what is wrong with the USA. To sum it up for ya, he says (and after anybody - republican or democrat reads it, I am sure they will agree) that in America, we now have too much DEMOCRACY. We have opened our system up to so much scrutiny, that no longer are decisions being made that are in the best interest of the county. We are deciding too many policies, etc. by polls, referendums, etc.

I know most of already realized this, but he puts it in a way that lets you see the entire picture. When this subject is discussed today, the public generally only gets a sound bite on the subject and they don't fully understand how much this has truly hurt our country and our LIBERTIES!

Here are a couple of passages of the book I found quite telling and on target....

On the decline of political parties and their importance in selecting who will run for office:

In December 2000, a few days after the Florida recount battles had ended, I asked George Stephanopoulos, the broadcast journalist and former political strategist, whether he thought the Democratic Party would nominate former vice president Al Gore to run for president in 2004....Stephanopoulos's answer was clarifying: "There is no Democratic Party", he said, "If Gore wants to run, he has to raise the money, get good publicity, and move up in the polls, which will get him more money and better press. What party elders think is irrelevant because there is no party anymore. Those who style themselves as 'elders' are just old pols looking for something to do."

On subsidies:

If a group of farmers got together to petition the government to give them $10,000,000, the benefit to each farmer is $100,000. The cost to the rest of the country is about 4 cents per person. Who is more likely to form a lobby, them or us? Multiply this example by thousands and you understand the central problem of American democracy today.

On the problem with referendums and special interest groups combined:

... the [California] legislature has no power over funds either, since it is mandated to spend them as referendums and federal law require. Today 85 percent of the California state budget is outside of the legislature's or the governor's control - a situation unique in the United States and probably the world. The vast majority of the state's budget is "pre-assigned." In California today real power resides nowhere. It has dissipated into the atmosphere, since most government is made via abstract laws and formulas.

Finally, a quote from Historian Richard Hofstadter, "was the Man of Good Will. . . . He would think and act as a public-spirited individual, unlike all the groups of vested interests that were ready to prey on him. . . . Far from joining organizations to advance his own interests, he would. . . . address himself directly and high-mindedly to the problems of government."





WOW - that pretty much says it and it applies to both parties!

 

[pegwinn]

OCA I am with you. Rage, an all consuming pissed off, nuke the fuckers and move on kind of rage. Rage at America for not being enraged. Rage at the weenies who are free and denigrate those who protect the freedom. Rage at both political parties for not locating, closing with, and destroying the enemies who struck at us. Rage at the cowardly muslim/islamics who don't police thier own. Rage at the cowardly terrorists who use women and children to fight for them. Rage at the terroists who sawed the freaking head off of Nick Berg. And rage at myself for retireing when I thought the shooting was over and the young uns would deal with the peace.

To the others about splitting up the country. Technically we are fifty separate, soverign (sp) countries called states. Originally as I understand the papers of the time, each state was to be unto itself and free of the others. The USA was on the order of a grand alliance.

Note that prior to the civil war, the documents of the USA referred to itself as a plurality. "The United States are opposed to this." After the civil war it change to "The United States is opposed to this".

Also, Texas can (and should) split into 5 states. That would give us a bigger voting block in congress. :usa:

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by pegwinn
Also, Texas can (and should) split into 5 states. That would give us a bigger voting block in congress. :usa:

I have been advocating this for a long time!

People need to remember that California is, technically, the Republic of California, as Texas is the Republic of Texas, The Commonwealth of Massachussettes, etc.... so you are right. We are 50 INDIVIDUAL nation-states combined by ONE federal system. That is why libertarians and republicans continually harp on STATES' RIGHTS!