Alternative High Schools

[chanel]

To be honest, I don't think anyone working in these programs have any "fantasy" about what it actually is: a warehouse. Judges in NJ commonly "sentence" juvenile offenders to "attend school". They have no place else to put them, and don't want them running the streets. These programs fill that need.

Teachers in my school constantly complain about how the alternative school lets kids watch BET and have pizza parties every Friday. I DON'T CARE! They could provide them with lap dances and it matters not to me. The only thing I do care about is that they are not interfering with the learning of the good kids. Unless they are willing to build more kiddie jails or bring back expulsion, it's all we have.

Closing them down could have a very negative impact on all public schools.

All of what you've said is true.

However, the schools are PUBLIC.

Not, Public-except-for-that-portion-of-the-public-that-is-difficult-to-teach.

The latter is called a PRIVATE school.

Who pays for that PRIVATE school? And you know as well as I we are not talking about "difficult to teach" teenagers and young adults. As blimpo said, these students INTERFERE with the learning of others. 100% of the kids I kick out of class are guilty of that.

I'm not sure how many states have eliminated expulsion. To my knowledge, NJ is the only one. Expensive, unintended consequences legislated from the bench. Unless they reverse that, we need a place to house them.

 

[editec]

I agree with you, Chanel.

If nothing else, alternatives schools give teachers AND STUDENTS in regular schools a break.

I think in addition they can also help those kids in the alternative schools, too.

Some of the kids going to these alternate schools have nobody in their lives who is remotely sane or really cares about them except the teachers in those schools.

Having a relationship with people who care about them and who also care about their education is a positive thing.

Consider what people, especially young people, are like when nobody cares.


I don't think some of us realize how many kids in the USA are basically throw-away-kids.

Theyir parent moved on, remarried, or their lives are fallen apart, they're clinically or emotionally ill, and they just cannot give their kids the love and attention that every human being needs.

Now I know that the point of schools is to educate our youth, but it's more than that, too.

A big part, and I mean a REALLY BIG part of what school gives kids is a sense of community. Without that sense that somebody cares, without the sense that they are NOT ALONE, that they BELONG to something bigger than themselves, these kids are going to be troubled and they're going to BE trouble, too.

 

[Samson]

To be honest, I don't think anyone working in these programs have any "fantasy" about what it actually is: a warehouse. Judges in NJ commonly "sentence" juvenile offenders to "attend school". They have no place else to put them, and don't want them running the streets. These programs fill that need.

Teachers in my school constantly complain about how the alternative school lets kids watch BET and have pizza parties every Friday. I DON'T CARE! They could provide them with lap dances and it matters not to me. The only thing I do care about is that they are not interfering with the learning of the good kids. Unless they are willing to build more kiddie jails or bring back expulsion, it's all we have.

Closing them down could have a very negative impact on all public schools.

All of what you've said is true.

However, the schools are PUBLIC.

Not, Public-except-for-that-portion-of-the-public-that-is-difficult-to-teach.

The latter is called a PRIVATE school.

Who pays for that PRIVATE school? And you know as well as I we are not talking about "difficult to teach" teenagers and young adults. As blimpo said, these students INTERFERE with the learning of others. 100% of the kids I kick out of class are guilty of that.

I'm not sure how many states have eliminated expulsion. To my knowledge, NJ is the only one. Expensive, unintended consequences legislated from the bench. Unless they reverse that, we need a place to house them.

I'm astonished you don't know who pays for private education.

Private funding pays for private education.

Public funding pays for public school. Public schools contain THE PUBLIC.

Newsflash!: The public contains some unsavory characters, and if you are in a public school, then you'd better get used to it.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

There is NO expulsion in the State of NJ.

That's one of your big problems right there.

 

[chanel]

Yep. One of the biggest.

Federal law mandates a one year suspension for bringing a gun to school. NJ Constitution says that we can not deny that student an education under any circumstances. Hence, an alternative program must be paid for by the taxpayers.

I get annoyed when people compare test scores internationally because it's not "apples to apples". But even comparing statistics between states is problematic. The drop out rate in NJ is very low because we even educate kids in jail. But our test scores include those kids. And soon 50% of teacher evaluations will depend on those scores. It makes no sense, but I suspect the lawmakers are clueless.

I teach 12th grade special ed. My students are often "difficult to teach" and have major attendance problems. I give them 100% and expect them to give me the same while they are in my room. What they have learned over the previous 11 years or what goes on outside, I have no control over.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I will never see a "merit raise" based on my students' test scores. That's ok. What I cannot accept is that I could lose my job over it. That is frightening.

 

[Samson]

Yep. One of the biggest.

Federal law mandates a one year suspension for bringing a gun to school. NJ Constitution says that we can not deny that student an education under any circumstances. Hence, an alternative program must be paid for by the taxpayers.

I get annoyed when people compare test scores internationally because it's not "apples to apples". But even comparing statistics between states is problematic. The drop out rate in NJ is very low because we even educate kids in jail. But our test scores include those kids. And soon 50% of teacher evaluations will depend on those scores. It makes no sense, but I suspect the lawmakers are clueless.

I teach 12th grade special ed. My students are often "difficult to teach" and have major attendance problems. I give them 100% and expect them to give me the same while they are in my room. What they have learned over the previous 11 years or what goes on outside, I have no control over.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I will never see a "merit raise" based on my students' test scores. That's ok. What I cannot accept is that I could lose my job over it. That is frightening.

EXactly upon what parameters do you believe you should be evaluated?

Let's face it: SpEd? 12 years?

WTF are they learning after year 5?

 

[westwall]

Emily Fisher opened 14 years ago and serves some of the state’s toughest-to-educate children. Almost all of the nearly 400 students are poor and about 40 percent have special education needs. Many failed in other schools: The mission statement includes reaching out to "disruptive" students. There are kids who were incarcerated, and several dozen have children of their own.

But next month, the school is expected to close. The state Department of Education this spring denied a renewal of Emily Fisher’s charter, due in large part to low test scores, citing a "culture of low expectations" and "little evidence of learning taking place." If the school closes, students will "transition" back to regular Trenton schools.

Kevin G. Welner, a professor of education at the University of Colorado Boulder and director of the National Education Policy Center, said so-called "last chance" or "alternative" schools that enroll at-risk students almost never show high test scores or even strong test score growth, "so it makes little sense to hold them accountable using that standard."

Low test scores outweigh lofty challenges as Trenton charter school faces closure | NJ.com

This article paints a rosy picture of a school that is most likely out of control. However...

There is NO expulsion in the State of NJ. These troublemakers are sent to costly, alternative programs simply to protect the other kids. I don't think outsiders (like politicians) get that.

What to do with the criminals???? Send them back to their regular schools? Scary prospect.

Comments?

Nope, they should be sent to a boot camp. Grades are how they earn privileges. No grades no TV. No nice food, no soft drinks etc. etc.

 

[syrenn]

Emily Fisher opened 14 years ago and serves some of the state’s toughest-to-educate children. Almost all of the nearly 400 students are poor and about 40 percent have special education needs. Many failed in other schools: The mission statement includes reaching out to "disruptive" students. There are kids who were incarcerated, and several dozen have children of their own.

But next month, the school is expected to close. The state Department of Education this spring denied a renewal of Emily Fisher’s charter, due in large part to low test scores, citing a "culture of low expectations" and "little evidence of learning taking place." If the school closes, students will "transition" back to regular Trenton schools.

Kevin G. Welner, a professor of education at the University of Colorado Boulder and director of the National Education Policy Center, said so-called "last chance" or "alternative" schools that enroll at-risk students almost never show high test scores or even strong test score growth, "so it makes little sense to hold them accountable using that standard."

Low test scores outweigh lofty challenges as Trenton charter school faces closure | NJ.com

This article paints a rosy picture of a school that is most likely out of control. However...

There is NO expulsion in the State of NJ. These troublemakers are sent to costly, alternative programs simply to protect the other kids. I don't think outsiders (like politicians) get that.

What to do with the criminals???? Send them back to their regular schools? Scary prospect.

Comments?

Why even bother trying to keep them in school. Let them drop out..... Who really cares if they show up for class or not? They dont want to be there, the teachers dont want them there, the other students (unless they are friends) dont what them there... and the parents of these kids could care less if their child does well or not....

As far as i am concerned everyone knows these kids are only kept around for the body count. Body count equals money per student.

 

[syrenn]

Emily Fisher opened 14 years ago and serves some of the state’s toughest-to-educate children. Almost all of the nearly 400 students are poor and about 40 percent have special education needs. Many failed in other schools: The mission statement includes reaching out to "disruptive" students. There are kids who were incarcerated, and several dozen have children of their own.

But next month, the school is expected to close. The state Department of Education this spring denied a renewal of Emily Fisher’s charter, due in large part to low test scores, citing a "culture of low expectations" and "little evidence of learning taking place." If the school closes, students will "transition" back to regular Trenton schools.

Kevin G. Welner, a professor of education at the University of Colorado Boulder and director of the National Education Policy Center, said so-called "last chance" or "alternative" schools that enroll at-risk students almost never show high test scores or even strong test score growth, "so it makes little sense to hold them accountable using that standard."

Low test scores outweigh lofty challenges as Trenton charter school faces closure | NJ.com

This article paints a rosy picture of a school that is most likely out of control. However...

There is NO expulsion in the State of NJ. These troublemakers are sent to costly, alternative programs simply to protect the other kids. I don't think outsiders (like politicians) get that.

What to do with the criminals???? Send them back to their regular schools? Scary prospect.

Comments?

Nope, they should be sent to a boot camp. Grades are how they earn privileges. No grades no TV. No nice food, no soft drinks etc. etc.

You mean all the things their looser parents should be doing.

 

[syrenn]

Yep. One of the biggest.

Federal law mandates a one year suspension for bringing a gun to school. NJ Constitution says that we can not deny that student an education under any circumstances. Hence, an alternative program must be paid for by the taxpayers.

I get annoyed when people compare test scores internationally because it's not "apples to apples". But even comparing statistics between states is problematic. The drop out rate in NJ is very low because we even educate kids in jail. But our test scores include those kids. And soon 50% of teacher evaluations will depend on those scores. It makes no sense, but I suspect the lawmakers are clueless.

I teach 12th grade special ed. My students are often "difficult to teach" and have major attendance problems. I give them 100% and expect them to give me the same while they are in my room. What they have learned over the previous 11 years or what goes on outside, I have no control over.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I will never see a "merit raise" based on my students' test scores. That's ok. What I cannot accept is that I could lose my job over it. That is frightening.

I am sorry channel. But what you are is a baby sitter......

 

[westwall]

Low test scores outweigh lofty challenges as Trenton charter school faces closure | NJ.com

This article paints a rosy picture of a school that is most likely out of control. However...

There is NO expulsion in the State of NJ. These troublemakers are sent to costly, alternative programs simply to protect the other kids. I don't think outsiders (like politicians) get that.

What to do with the criminals???? Send them back to their regular schools? Scary prospect.

Comments?

Nope, they should be sent to a boot camp. Grades are how they earn privileges. No grades no TV. No nice food, no soft drinks etc. etc.

You mean all the things their looser parents should be doing.

Yup. They don't know how to behave because their parents don't behave and the young model the behavior they see. They must be taught how to behave properly and good grades are a part of that.

 

[westwall]

Yep. One of the biggest.

Federal law mandates a one year suspension for bringing a gun to school. NJ Constitution says that we can not deny that student an education under any circumstances. Hence, an alternative program must be paid for by the taxpayers.

I get annoyed when people compare test scores internationally because it's not "apples to apples". But even comparing statistics between states is problematic. The drop out rate in NJ is very low because we even educate kids in jail. But our test scores include those kids. And soon 50% of teacher evaluations will depend on those scores. It makes no sense, but I suspect the lawmakers are clueless.

I teach 12th grade special ed. My students are often "difficult to teach" and have major attendance problems. I give them 100% and expect them to give me the same while they are in my room. What they have learned over the previous 11 years or what goes on outside, I have no control over.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I will never see a "merit raise" based on my students' test scores. That's ok. What I cannot accept is that I could lose my job over it. That is frightening.

I am sorry channel. But what you are is a baby sitter......

That's all she's allowed to be.

 

[syrenn]

Yep. One of the biggest.

Federal law mandates a one year suspension for bringing a gun to school. NJ Constitution says that we can not deny that student an education under any circumstances. Hence, an alternative program must be paid for by the taxpayers.

I get annoyed when people compare test scores internationally because it's not "apples to apples". But even comparing statistics between states is problematic. The drop out rate in NJ is very low because we even educate kids in jail. But our test scores include those kids. And soon 50% of teacher evaluations will depend on those scores. It makes no sense, but I suspect the lawmakers are clueless.

I teach 12th grade special ed. My students are often "difficult to teach" and have major attendance problems. I give them 100% and expect them to give me the same while they are in my room. What they have learned over the previous 11 years or what goes on outside, I have no control over.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I will never see a "merit raise" based on my students' test scores. That's ok. What I cannot accept is that I could lose my job over it. That is frightening.

I am sorry channel. But what you are is a baby sitter......

That's all she's allowed to be.

I know....and that is very sad.

 

[chanel]

Yep. One of the biggest.

Federal law mandates a one year suspension for bringing a gun to school. NJ Constitution says that we can not deny that student an education under any circumstances. Hence, an alternative program must be paid for by the taxpayers.

I get annoyed when people compare test scores internationally because it's not "apples to apples". But even comparing statistics between states is problematic. The drop out rate in NJ is very low because we even educate kids in jail. But our test scores include those kids. And soon 50% of teacher evaluations will depend on those scores. It makes no sense, but I suspect the lawmakers are clueless.

I teach 12th grade special ed. My students are often "difficult to teach" and have major attendance problems. I give them 100% and expect them to give me the same while they are in my room. What they have learned over the previous 11 years or what goes on outside, I have no control over.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I will never see a "merit raise" based on my students' test scores. That's ok. What I cannot accept is that I could lose my job over it. That is frightening.

EXactly upon what parameters do you believe you should be evaluated?

Let's face it: SpEd? 12 years?

WTF are they learning after year 5?

We use the Marzano method for evaluations. It's very fair. Marzano's Causal Teacher Evaluation - Marzano Teacher Evaluation
But that will count for only 50% of the overall "score".

And syrenn - we are all babysitters for a good number of these kids. But most students learn SOMETHING new every day, even if it's not necessarily the "essential question" of the day. My class just finished 1984 and the students bring up "Orwellian" issues in the news every day. It's relevant and important, but it won't be tested by anyone but me.

If my students were assessed periodically for growth, I'd have no issue (except cost). They make progress every day. But year end tests don't measure that.

It will be interesting to see how many special education teachers get labeled "bad teachers" by the people in the ivory tower. Every politician who thinks he/she knows better, should have to spend at least one day in our shoes.

We can debate all day long about relevant curriculum, expulsion, drop out age, special education needs, etc. and the way things ought to be. But I have to deal with the way things are. The developmentally delayed, autistic, ADD, emotionally disturbed, homeless, drug addicted, defiant, dangerous, etc. are all our responsibility.

Special ed. teachers are ok with that. That's what we signed up for. But no one deserves to have their reputation destroyed by a few really bad apples. And that's what we are going to see.

 

[Samson]

If my students were assessed periodically for growth, I'd have no issue (except cost). They make progress every day. But year end tests don't measure that.

By "periodically" do you mean monthly?

I'm guessing that something between every day and a year would be OK.

Frankly I'm not sure why weekly progress cannot be assessed. Costs could be minimized with computerized, online testing, e.g. every week, all Algebra students in the state will take the same test. At the end of the year there will be an average state grade.

Any teacher whose classes' average is more than 3 standard deviations away from the state average will be required to take additional training. If it happens a second year after training the teacher's contract will not be renewed.

SpEd teachers will receive a "handicap" of 5 deviations from the state average.

What's the big deal?

Sure, some teachers will find something "unfair:" E.g. They were absent a month with cancer. OK, then you SHOULD need additional training, after all you WERE out of the classroom. What is Unfair is that the public paid to have kids taught, and for whatever reason, it did not happen.

Then, there will be teachers who cry "Unfair! I have all the kids that suck."

If you are a "teacher" then you should be able to teach, REGARDLESS of the quality of students. Indeed it is more difficult to teach some students than others, but if you cannot stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen: Find ANOTHER teaching job, or get OUT of teaching; but do not continue to waste public funds and kid's time whining that it is their fault.

 

[chanel]

"Periodically" can mean 3 or more times a year. But each testing day is one less day of teaching. In fact our current state tests take 3 days. Then there are makeup days TWICE A YEAR for those who couldn't make it in those days. Teachers must proctor the tests so dozens of substitutes must be hired to supervise those who are not tested. Classes must be moved; bells must be turned off, and schedules are changed. It's disruptive and expensive.

The new PARCC tests are designed to be taken via the internet. We will need to upgrade our network and purchase thousands of lap tops. If the purpose of this was instruction, I might consider it worth the cost. But we know the only purpose is to assess the teachers. Ludicrous if you ask me.

And a 17 year old with a 4th grade reading level will never score within the "standard deviation". And he will never progress past 4th grade without intense remediation. We don't do that in high school.

It will be interesting to see how this goes. But anyone who has spent any time in education knows that after the zillions are spent, something new come down the pike that will "save the children". And zillions more will be spent.

This is the formula for value added evaluations:

The general formula for the "linear mixed model" is a string of symbols and letters more than 80 characters long:

y = Xβ + Zv + ε where β is a p-by-1 vector of fixed effects; X is an n-by-p matrix; v is a q-by-1 vector of random effects; Z is an n-by-q matrix; E(v) = 0, Var(v) = G; E(&#949 = 0, Var(&#949 = R; Cov(v,&#949 = 0. V = Var(y) = Var(y - X&#946 = Var(Zv + &#949 = ZGZT + R.

'Value-added' teacher evaluations: L.A. Unified tackles a tough formula - latimes.com

If I get a bad score, can I demand that the principal explain the math?

 

[Samson]

"Periodically" can mean 3 or more times a year. But each testing day is one less day of teaching. In fact our current state tests take 3 days. Then there are makeup days TWICE A YEAR for those who couldn't make it in those days. Teachers must proctor the tests so dozens of substitutes must be hired to supervise those who are not tested. Classes must be moved; bells must be turned off, and schedules are changed. It's disruptive and expensive.

The reasaon it is disruptive is because it isn't done with any regularity.

I'm not sure why it should be expensive: teachers already have a curriculum right? Just let them know the test on week 11 will be about X Objective, week 12 will be about Y, etc. Students get a scantron with 10 questions. They take the test.

Teachers put the grade in the gradebook, and the state puts the grade into the data base.

At the end of the year, the teachers with the lowest scoring classes get to spend two months in remedial classes instead of having an unprecedented 2 month vacation, something even most Europeans don't enjoy.

 

[chanel]

That's not the way it works Samson. And that's not the way it will work in the future. Teachers can not be trusted giving their own students the assessments. That's what they tell us. And not every teacher in every school in every state will be on the same page on Week 11.

"Data" is the educational buzzword of the year. Zillions of dollars will be spent on "data collection". Will the data be used to identify students' strengths and weaknesses? Will the data be used to focus on what individual students don't know? Of course not. The "data" will be used for the sole purpose of identifying "bad teachers". And when all the "bad teachers" are gone, we will be a nation of geniuses. Or so they tell us. Zillions well spent fer sure.

And instead of sending the teachers to "remediation summer camp", how about if the kids just read a few books during those two months off? I guarantee that would raise test scores.

 

[chanel]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn8faeuQjE0]Differentiated Instruction - YouTube[/ame]

 

[squeeze berry]

the problem with holding teachers accountable for test scores is that many of the students do not have IQs sufficient enough to understand complex material and sometimes even simple concepts. Yet, students are required to take classes that are over their intellectual heads.