Allowing openly Homosexual people into U.S. Military will be a big mistake.

[lilbug]

It's unfortunate that 52nd's history perhaps makes him not the best messenger of this message as it is an important issue for the military, and I tend to go along with this...

The military services have regs that prohibit public displays of affection that cross the line of decorum. No doubt some will test that line and pay the consequences. In some places they'll face charges, in others an asskicking. Yes, commanders will have to deal with the issue; one hopes gays will value their commitment to serve over the desire to make a political point.

 

[Si modo]

It's unfortunate that 52nd's history perhaps makes him not the best messenger of this message as it is an important issue for the military, and I tend to go along with this...

The military services have regs that prohibit public displays of affection that cross the line of decorum. No doubt some will test that line and pay the consequences. In some places they'll face charges, in others an asskicking. Yes, commanders will have to deal with the issue; one hopes gays will value their commitment to serve over the desire to make a political point.

Exactly.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Racial classification and Sexual orientation are two totally different issues idiot.
And white people who try to make a correlation between the two have sick agenda.

Depends on our personal opinion.

1. If you believe sexual orientation has a biological component then it's is very much like race - it being based on biology.

on the other hand...

2. If you believe sexual orientation is a choice, then it's very much like religion - religion being a choice of course.​

>>>>

 

[lilbug]

Racial classification and Sexual orientation are two totally different issues idiot.
And white people who try to make a correlation between the two have sick agenda.

Depends on our personal opinion.

1. If you believe sexual orientation has a biological component then it's is very much like race - it being based on biology.

on the other hand...

2. If you believe sexual orientation is a choice, then it's very much like religion - religion being a choice of course.​

>>>>

That's a very concrete view and quite a stretch to even be applicable. I've heard the arguments about this being race issue and the religious righteous trying to make a religion issue...they're both wrong...it's JUST sexual orientation, attempting to read anything else into is baseless.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Racial classification and Sexual orientation are two totally different issues idiot.
And white people who try to make a correlation between the two have sick agenda.

Depends on our personal opinion.

1. If you believe sexual orientation has a biological component then it's is very much like race - it being based on biology.

on the other hand...

2. If you believe sexual orientation is a choice, then it's very much like religion - religion being a choice of course.​

>>>>

That's a very concrete view and quite a stretch to even be applicable. I've heard the arguments about this being race issue and the religious righteous trying to make a religion issue...they're both wrong...it's JUST sexual orientation, attempting to read anything else into is baseless.

"Very Concrete"? - Maybe, but then again I'm a database guy in the real world and tend to boil problems down into black and white, 1's and 0's, True and False conditions. Databases do not deal effectively with "shades of gray's" and exceptions. I hate "exceptions" to the rules, if you want me to pull data from the system, you have to define exactly what the "Where Clause" (Criteria) of the data set you are looking for.


What is interesting though is that the "structure" of the arguments used today are very similar to the "structure" of the arguments used in the past to justify racial discrimination. Take for example the meme that "homosexuals are not being discriminated against, homosexuals have the same rights marry someone one of the opposite sex just like heterosexuals". Then compare that to the argument presented by the State of Virginia in the Loving v. Virginia case which to paraphrase was "coloreds are not being discriminated against, coloreds have the same rights marry someone one of the same race just like white people".


IMHO, many of those that argue against equal treatment of homosexuals under the law (for example Civil Marriage) are heavily invested in the opinion that homosexuality MUST be a choice, because if scientific evidence weighs in and shows a definitive biological (genetic, in uterine hormonal, or combination) competent to sexual orientation then the arguments become even more similar to racial arguments because sexual orientation and race will both have a biological cause. If such a link is firmly established, they will have shot themselves in the foot with the "choice" argument.



>>>>

 

[lilbug]

Depends on our personal opinion.

1. If you believe sexual orientation has a biological component then it's is very much like race - it being based on biology.

on the other hand...

2. If you believe sexual orientation is a choice, then it's very much like religion - religion being a choice of course.​

>>>>

That's a very concrete view and quite a stretch to even be applicable. I've heard the arguments about this being race issue and the religious righteous trying to make a religion issue...they're both wrong...it's JUST sexual orientation, attempting to read anything else into is baseless.

"Very Concrete"? - Maybe, but then again I'm a database guy in the real world and tend to boil problems down into black and white, 1's and 0's, True and False conditions. Databases do not deal effectively with "shades of gray's" and exceptions. I hate "exceptions" to the rules, if you want me to pull data from the system, you have to define exactly what the "Where Clause" (Criteria) of the data set you are looking for.


What is interesting though is that the "structure" of the arguments used today are very similar to the "structure" of the arguments used in the past to justify racial discrimination. Take for example the meme that "homosexuals are not being discriminated against, homosexuals have the same rights marry someone one of the opposite sex just like heterosexuals". Then compare that to the argument presented by the State of Virginia in the Loving v. Virginia case which to paraphrase was "coloreds are not being discriminated against, coloreds have the same rights marry someone one of the same race just like white people".


IMHO, many of those that argue against equal treatment of homosexuals under the law (for example Civil Marriage) are heavily invested in the opinion that homosexuality MUST be a choice, because if scientific evidence weighs in and shows a definitive biological (genetic, in uterine hormonal, or combination) competent to sexual orientation then the arguments become even more similar to racial arguments because sexual orientation and race will both have a biological cause. If such a link is firmly established, they will have shot themselves in the foot with the "choice" argument.



>>>>

Me thinks you are over thnking this...and while I do not agree, I respect your right to your opinion.

 

[blastoff]

Allowing openly homosexaul people into the U.S. military will cause more problems for the
U.S. military commanders, than it will solve. And it may put the homosexual person life
in danger.

This issue will only cause problems with regards to U.S. military moral and unit cohesion.
The homosexuals who are pushing this issue do not realize the problems that it will cause.
Repealing Don't ask Don't tell is a big mistake.

52

The 1950's called and they want thier bigotry back.



I served with 3 men I knew were gay.

2 were ok guys but the other one sucked.[/QUOTE]

So there were four of you altogether?

 

[52ndStreet]

I thought that the U.S. military wanted people with no criminal record, or any other sociopathic errors.
Homosexuality can be classified as a sociopathic abnormality.

 

[Warrior102]

The military services have regs that prohibit public displays of affection that cross the line of decorum. No doubt some will test that line and pay the consequences. In some places they'll face charges, in others an asskicking. Yes, commanders will have to deal with the issue; one hopes gays will value their commitment to serve over the desire to make a political point.

You are spot on friend. Those who misbehave - gay or straight - will be/are dealt with accordingly. It's up to the unit/base/shipboard Commander to maintain good order and discipline. The rules are in place - follow them, or pay the consequences.

 

[Warrior102]

I thought that the U.S. military wanted people with no criminal record, or any other sociopathic errors.
Homosexuality can be classified as a sociopathic abnormality.

So is heavy boozing. You know how many people in the military drink?

 

[52ndStreet]

Allowing homosexuals into the military will endanger the homosexuals own life, and could affect
U.S. military effectiveness, and operations.

 

[The Gadfly]

It's unfortunate that 52nd's history perhaps makes him not the best messenger of this message as it is an important issue for the military, and I tend to go along with this...

The military services have regs that prohibit public displays of affection that cross the line of decorum. No doubt some will test that line and pay the consequences. In some places they'll face charges, in others an asskicking. Yes, commanders will have to deal with the issue; one hopes gays will value their commitment to serve over the desire to make a political point.

Exactly.

As anyone who has been in the military knows, there is a pretty wide range of personal social behaviors that can (and sometimes do) interfere with unit morale and cohesion, and/or good order and discipline. Most of these are independent of one's sexual orientation, so why single that out? Homosexuals are not the only troops who can engage in, (for example), inappropriate personal relationships (sexual or otherwise), or sexual harassment, or in inappropriate public display of affection. There are regulations to address such personal conduct, and I assume these will continue to be enforced. So long as a troop is not violating these, sexual orientation doesn't matter, and if a troop IS violating these, they will face the consequences, without regard to their sexual orientation. Where's the problem (beyond 52nd's obvious obsession with this particular issue, of course)?

 

[bodecea]

Allowing homosexuals into the military will endanger the homosexuals own life, and could affect
U.S. military effectiveness, and operations.

We've been there from the gitgo.....isn't it amazing how the military hasn't crumbled?

 

[High_Gravity]

Allowing homosexuals into the military will endanger the homosexuals own life, and could affect
U.S. military effectiveness, and operations.

We've been there from the gitgo.....isn't it amazing how the military hasn't crumbled?

I would rather have homosexuals in the service than braindead idiots like 52ndStreet.

 

[Truthseeker420]

At least there will be someone at the baracks to cook clean a decorate.

 

[Lokiate]

Meh, I got no problem with gay Soldiers. I know I've served with homosexuals, doesn't bother me at all.
As long as they can do their job, and keep their personal life at home like everyone else is expected to, I see no problem with it.

 

[52ndStreet]

Meh, I got no problem with gay Soldiers. I know I've served with homosexuals, doesn't bother me at all.
As long as they can do their job, and keep their personal life at home like everyone else is expected to, I see no problem with it.

Don't you people understand that the "Don't ask Don't tell" rules are going to be abolished.
And flamboyant homosexuals and lesbians can now express themselves in the U.S. Military services, without any regard to if the other soldiers are homosexuals or heterosexual.!!

They will be allowed to approach heterosexual soldiers, and come on to them.
They will also be allowed to act in any homosexual manner that they so chose.!!!!
And they can not be reprimanded by any one.

Do you all realize what this will do to the other heterosexual soldiers moral and attitude.?!
To be exposed to all those homosexual come ons and innuendos?!!

 

[Lokiate]

Don't you people understand that the "Don't ask Don't tell" rules are going to be abolished. And flamboyant homosexuals and lesbians can now express themselves in the U.S. Military services, without any regard to if the other soldiers are homosexuals or heterosexual.!!

I'm a Specialist in the US Army, guy. Been in for a little over three years now. The only thing that changes is that gays won't be kicked out if their sexual preference is found out. I know this, because I sat through the mandatory briefing, and heard General Casey's speech. They're still bound to the same codes of conduct, both in and out of uniform as every other Service Member, same dress code, same everything. Nothing changes.

They will be allowed to approach heterosexual soldiers, and come on to them.
They will also be allowed to act in any homosexual manner that they so chose.!!!!
And they can not be reprimanded by any one.

Oh no, people acting gay in the Military, what ever will we do?

Do you all realize what this will do to the other heterosexual soldiers moral and attitude.?! To be exposed to all those homosexual come ons and innuendos?!!

lol, wut? Do you realize how much "stupid gay shit" goes on when Soldiers get bored? You're going to get flashed, you're going to get hugged, we had one asshole in Korea that would pet Soldiers hair like they were cats, and call them "kitty". You don't even want to know about the "goat", or the "mad shitter". If you don't have a thick skin, and a sense of humor in the Military, you're wrong. If some dude being gay offends you, stay out, because they've been fighting and dying like the rest of us for this country, and if some stupid little detail keeps you from performing your job, and fighting as a team, then we don't want you.

 

[52ndStreet]

Don't you people understand that the "Don't ask Don't tell" rules are going to be abolished. And flamboyant homosexuals and lesbians can now express themselves in the U.S. Military services, without any regard to if the other soldiers are homosexuals or heterosexual.!!

I'm a Specialist in the US Army, guy. Been in for a little over three years now. The only thing that changes is that gays won't be kicked out if their sexual preference is found out. I know this, because I sat through the mandatory briefing, and heard General Casey's speech. They're still bound to the same codes of conduct, both in and out of uniform as every other Service Member, same dress code, same everything. Nothing changes.

They will be allowed to approach heterosexual soldiers, and come on to them.
They will also be allowed to act in any homosexual manner that they so chose.!!!!
And they can not be reprimanded by any one.

Oh no, people acting gay in the Military, what ever will we do?

Do you all realize what this will do to the other heterosexual soldiers moral and attitude.?! To be exposed to all those homosexual come ons and innuendos?!!

lol, wut? Do you realize how much "stupid gay shit" goes on when Soldiers get bored? You're going to get flashed, you're going to get hugged, we had one asshole in Korea that would pet Soldiers hair like they were cats, and call them "kitty". You don't even want to know about the "goat", or the "mad shitter". If you don't have a thick skin, and a sense of humor in the Military, you're wrong. If some dude being gay offends you, stay out, because they've been fighting and dying like the rest of us for this country, and if some stupid little detail keeps you from performing your job, and fighting as a team, then we don't want you.

Well I guess you may have a point. I have worked around homosexuals also, in the closet homos, and the flamboyant homos.
A lot of little games as you said that you experienced.
But that was from the heterosexual people as well as the homo people. Well I guess it won't make much difference. I guess only time will tell.??

 

[Divine Wind]

lol, wut? Do you realize how much "stupid gay shit" goes on when Soldiers get bored? You're going to get flashed, you're going to get hugged, we had one asshole in Korea that would pet Soldiers hair like they were cats, and call them "kitty". You don't even want to know about the "goat", or the "mad shitter". If you don't have a thick skin, and a sense of humor in the Military, you're wrong. If some dude being gay offends you, stay out, because they've been fighting and dying like the rest of us for this country, and if some stupid little detail keeps you from performing your job, and fighting as a team, then we don't want you.

Agreed and well said. Whether we like it or not, like desegregation and women in the service, gays will be allowed to openly serve in the military instead of hiding in the closet where they've been.

As most current service personnel and vets know, it reaches a point where all that matters is "shut the fuck up and do your fucking job!"