All this presumption that the CO shooter is mentally ill.

[Cecilie1200]

That is my point, if one commits murder they are insane in my book.

Why? Murder isn't automatically insane. If I decide to kill my husband because I want to cash in on his life insurance policy, am I insane, or am I just evil?


Seems to me that it's a completely sane, logical choice to make, if one is starting from the amoral position that selfish personal desires take more precedent than other people's lives.

Yeeeah, cuz starting from an amoral position that personal desires take precedent over people's lives, isn't INSANE.........?



No sane person could do something so horrible...

No, there's nothing insane about being amoral. Lots of people are, and simply never have occasion to think their needs require killing someone.

It's very childish, fuzzy thinking to merely lump anything you can't or don't want to face and understand under the heading of "insane", and does a lot of harm to people who truly are.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I believe that someone who dyes his hair red and goes into a movie theatre, shoots strangers, then tells the cops he is the joker is suffering from mental illness.

I do not think that should influence the punishment in any way. Lay the bastard down and shoot him up, its best for the rest of us.

David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam killer, told everyone he was receiving orders from a demon possessing his neighbor's dog. Turned out later, although it never made widespread headlines, that he made the whole thing up to try to get off on an insanity plea. He also claimed later on that he actually only killed a couple of the victims himself, and the others were killed by members of a Satanic cult he belonged to. This was never proven.

Point being, saying crazy things to the cops when one is arrested proves nothing.

 

[slackjawed]

I believe that someone who dyes his hair red and goes into a movie theatre, shoots strangers, then tells the cops he is the joker is suffering from mental illness.

I do not think that should influence the punishment in any way. Lay the bastard down and shoot him up, its best for the rest of us.

David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam killer, told everyone he was receiving orders from a demon possessing his neighbor's dog. Turned out later, although it never made widespread headlines, that he made the whole thing up to try to get off on an insanity plea. He also claimed later on that he actually only killed a couple of the victims himself, and the others were killed by members of a Satanic cult he belonged to. This was never proven.

Point being, saying crazy things to the cops when one is arrested proves nothing.

yup, thats why i believe the second part of my post.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am going with one having to be insane to be evil, but that is just me.

Is a contract assassin who does 25 hits over 18 years mentally ill?

According to anyone who likes the comforting distance of pretending evil is insanity.

 

[JoeB131]

I am going with one having to be insane to be evil, but that is just me.

Is a contract assassin who does 25 hits over 18 years mentally ill?

I would say he's probably a sociopath...

 

[MuadDib]

I am going with one having to be insane to be evil, but that is just me.

Is a contract assassin who does 25 hits over 18 years mentally ill?

I would say he's probably a sociopath...

Undoubtedly, but does that mean he should not be punished to the full extent of the law?

 

[JoeB131]

Is a contract assassin who does 25 hits over 18 years mentally ill?

I would say he's probably a sociopath...

Undoubtedly, but does that mean he should not be punished to the full extent of the law?

Again, go back to my earlier statement, I think we should replace "not guilty by reason of insanity" with "guilty but insane".

The thing is, juries often throw clearly insane people into prisons when some of them need treatment.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Is a contract assassin who does 25 hits over 18 years mentally ill?

I would say he's probably a sociopath...

Undoubtedly, but does that mean he should not be punished to the full extent of the law?

As far as I'm aware, sociopathy does not meet the legal requirement for insanity. A conscience is not actually necessary to understand the nature, quality, and consequences of your actions.

 

[Jackson]

If I was on a jury, I would consider the fact that this man planned this well in advance and knew quite well what he was doing. Whether he had a conscience or not was irrelevant. He knew enough of the consequences and could have stopped at any time. He was highly intelligent by all accounts. He knew enough to be a law abiding citizen up to this point.

Evil is evil.

 

[Katzndogz]

The "Joker" is not going to be put on trial any more than Jared Loughner was put on trial. To this day, Loughner has not be tried. He may never be tried. Jim Holmes won't be tried either.

 

[rdean]

Just cause he killed a dozen or so most seem to think the guy is mentally ill.

Anyone who thinks this guy is not mentally ill scares me.

 

[JoeB131]

The "Joker" is not going to be put on trial any more than Jared Loughner was put on trial. To this day, Loughner has not be tried. He may never be tried. Jim Holmes won't be tried either.

Loughner probably can't be tried because he's severely schizophrenic.

Holmes, seems like he was a lot more meticulous.

Hey, another rule we need to get rid of... letting these people refuse medication to control their symptoms.

 

[Katzndogz]

He isn't mentally ill because he killed 12 people. He is mentally ill because he believes that he is The Joker, a cartoon character out of a comic book.

He didn't kill those people because he was depressed. He didn't kill them because he wanted social justice and couldn't find a job in his field. Nor that he didn't have a girlfriend, or any other reason that people want to dig up and explain away. He killed them because he believes himself to be The Joker.

 

[Katzndogz]

The "Joker" is not going to be put on trial any more than Jared Loughner was put on trial. To this day, Loughner has not be tried. He may never be tried. Jim Holmes won't be tried either.

Loughner probably can't be tried because he's severely schizophrenic.

Holmes, seems like he was a lot more meticulous.

Hey, another rule we need to get rid of... letting these people refuse medication to control their symptoms.

Lougher won't be tried because he is incompetent to stand trial. Holmes is incompetent to stand trial. Even if, and if you want to use a hypothetical, even if both were sane enough the commit these acts at the time they did them, they are now too insane to participate in a trial.

 

[JoeB131]

The "Joker" is not going to be put on trial any more than Jared Loughner was put on trial. To this day, Loughner has not be tried. He may never be tried. Jim Holmes won't be tried either.

Loughner probably can't be tried because he's severely schizophrenic.

Holmes, seems like he was a lot more meticulous.

Hey, another rule we need to get rid of... letting these people refuse medication to control their symptoms.

Lougher won't be tried because he is incompetent to stand trial. Holmes is incompetent to stand trial. Even if, and if you want to use a hypothetical, even if both were sane enough the commit these acts at the time they did them, they are now too insane to participate in a trial.

I suspect both of them will be put on trial because the standard for insanity is ridiculously high.

 

[Peach]

It COULD be a long debate, he planned too well to make it an easy question.

 

[boedicca]

I am going with one having to be insane to be evil, but that is just me.

Is a contract assassin who does 25 hits over 18 years mentally ill?

I'd label that one evil.

 

[boedicca]

It COULD be a long debate, he planned too well to make it an easy question.

A personal can be mentally ill/sick/crazy and still competent and aware enough to plan a crime and know it is a crime.

 

[Peach]

Is a contract assassin who does 25 hits over 18 years mentally ill?

I would say he's probably a sociopath...

Undoubtedly, but does that mean he should not be punished to the full extent of the law?

Many criminals are sociopaths, it does not impact their capacity to understand the nature of the charges and assist in their defense.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just cause he killed a dozen or so most seem to think the guy is mentally ill.

He stockpiled weapons ammo and protective gear. He stalked and killed a bunch of people wounding many more. One can safely assume given those facts he is mentally unstable. Does he have a specific condition? Who knows. His actions are NOT those of a sane person. AT least not sane in the USA, maybe a jihadist in the middle east might call him sane.