All the times we've advanced as a nation began with much turmoil or strife....

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I feel that this could be the beginning of one of those great turning points that most American's have only read about.

The only question yet to be answered is what direction our country will choose as its path. Will we give in to the temptation of the illusional easy path or will we make the tough choices that require dicipline and sacrifice?

Based on the last election I have my doubts. But based on my reaction to it I have hope.

 

[SniperFire]

Could be war.

 

[SniperFire]

... and the first causality of war is..... Obama Phones!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Well I wasn't really referring to that kind of turmoil. But something has to give. A few new taxes or magical cuts that never happen aren't going to fix our problems.

I just am not sure if this congress has the balls to truely attack the problems we face.

 

[OKTexas]

A small majority has bought into the illusion, things won't change until a few more realize it ain''t gonna work. When UE hits around 11% about this time next year, some folks are going to say wait, it's not suposed to be like this. But it will take the majority of the Maobama-bot-zombies a year or two longer.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Well I wasn't really referring to that kind of turmoil. But something has to give. A few new taxes or magical cuts that never happen aren't going to fix our problems.

I just am not sure if this congress has the balls to truely attack the problems we face.

Which problems and what do you think they would have to do to truly tackle them?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Well I wasn't really referring to that kind of turmoil. But something has to give. A few new taxes or magical cuts that never happen aren't going to fix our problems.

I just am not sure if this congress has the balls to truely attack the problems we face.

Which problems and what do you think they would have to do to truly tackle them?

Fiscal issues.

REAL cuts and across the board tax increases.


Problem is we will get phantom cuts and tax increases that don't get applied to the debt but rather just used for other spending. Our represenatives simply can't be trusted either with our money or our problems.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Well I wasn't really referring to that kind of turmoil. But something has to give. A few new taxes or magical cuts that never happen aren't going to fix our problems.

I just am not sure if this congress has the balls to truely attack the problems we face.

Which problems and what do you think they would have to do to truly tackle them?

Fiscal issues.

REAL cuts and across the board tax increases.


Problem is we will get phantom cuts and tax increases that don't get applied to the debt but rather just used for other spending. Our represenatives simply can't be trusted either with our money or our problems.

Both spending cuts and tax increases will slow economic growth and create more unemployment so trying to fix our deficit problem with these measures will create other more immediately painful problems. The root cause of our out of control deficits is our slow/no growth economy, so imo the best way to deal with our deficit problem is to hold spending level in inflation adjusted dollars and take measure such as Romney recommended to get the private sector economy growing faster.

However, the Obama administration would be adamantly opposed to these measures, such as lowering taxes to increase investment and consumption, limiting tax deductions so that people seek the greatest economic value when they spend or invest their money not the greatest tax advantage, a tax holiday for corporations that invest overseas profits back here in the US, encouraging more energy exploration and development and reviewing regulations with the aim of providing a more business friendly environment. This being the case, the Congress has really no good choices. If it uses new taxes and spending cuts to significantly reduce the deficits, it will slow our sluggish economy even more, perhaps into another recession. It might actually be preferable to kick the problem down the road to the administration and Congress that takes office in 2016.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Well I am referring to long term fiscal solutions. I suppose in the end it really doesn't matter as I haven't seen ANY signs that the people responsible are going to take any steps in the right direction.

Also I believe that the amount of debt we are rappidly building is going to allow us to cut taxes to spur growth much longer. There is a tipping point at which that option becomes obsolete

 

[toomuchtime_]

Well I am referring to long term fiscal solutions. I suppose in the end it really doesn't matter as I haven't seen ANY signs that the people responsible are going to take any steps in the right direction.

Also I believe that the amount of debt we are rappidly building is going to allow us to cut taxes to spur growth much longer. There is a tipping point at which that option becomes obsolete

The only long term solution to our debt/deficit problems is a robustly growing private sector economy. Everything else can at best only turn the fiscal cliff in a slope.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I feel that this could be the beginning of one of those great turning points that most American's have only read about.

The only question yet to be answered is what direction our country will choose as its path. Will we give in to the temptation of the illusional easy path or will we make the tough choices that require dicipline and sacrifice?

Based on the last election I have my doubts. But based on my reaction to it I have hope.

This conflict is different though. We aren't in opposition to personal rights this time, everyone has the same rights now and there are none left over worth going to war over. This is a fiscal civil war. It's those that want versus those that don't want to pay them. I don't see a huge battle line drawn here it will simply come down to people not participating in the economic system. More layoff's will occur, more laws will be passed to make the people still working pay more which will end up in more layoffs. It's a vicious cycle that will eventually end up in those wanting more for nothing actually fighting each other for the nothing left over.

Once producing becomes secondary to those wanting the game is over. There will be a civil war but this one isn't going to be about military power like the civil war. This one is going to be played out on spreadsheets.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I feel that this could be the beginning of one of those great turning points that most American's have only read about.

The only question yet to be answered is what direction our country will choose as its path. Will we give in to the temptation of the illusional easy path or will we make the tough choices that require dicipline and sacrifice?

Based on the last election I have my doubts. But based on my reaction to it I have hope.

This conflict is different though. We aren't in opposition to personal rights this time, everyone has the same rights now and there are none left over worth going to war over. This is a fiscal civil war. It's those that want versus those that don't want to pay them. I don't see a huge battle line drawn here it will simply come down to people not participating in the economic system. More layoff's will occur, more laws will be passed to make the people still working pay more which will end up in more layoffs. It's a vicious cycle that will eventually end up in those wanting more for nothing actually fighting each other for the nothing left over.

Once producing becomes secondary to those wanting the game is over. There will be a civil war but this one isn't going to be about military power like the civil war. This one is going to be played out on spreadsheets.

I just don't think Ken Burns will be able to do much with this kind of civil war.

 

[Glensather]

I don't think this is the same kind of strife, and unlike the days of FDR, we don't have a world war looming to help drag us out of it.

Unless China goes batshit. But we'd probably lose that too.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I feel that this could be the beginning of one of those great turning points that most American's have only read about.

The only question yet to be answered is what direction our country will choose as its path. Will we give in to the temptation of the illusional easy path or will we make the tough choices that require dicipline and sacrifice?

Based on the last election I have my doubts. But based on my reaction to it I have hope.

This conflict is different though. We aren't in opposition to personal rights this time, everyone has the same rights now and there are none left over worth going to war over. This is a fiscal civil war. It's those that want versus those that don't want to pay them. I don't see a huge battle line drawn here it will simply come down to people not participating in the economic system. More layoff's will occur, more laws will be passed to make the people still working pay more which will end up in more layoffs. It's a vicious cycle that will eventually end up in those wanting more for nothing actually fighting each other for the nothing left over.

Once producing becomes secondary to those wanting the game is over. There will be a civil war but this one isn't going to be about military power like the civil war. This one is going to be played out on spreadsheets.

I just don't think Ken Burns will be able to do much with this kind of civil war.

I don't know who Ken Burns is.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Well I am referring to long term fiscal solutions. I suppose in the end it really doesn't matter as I haven't seen ANY signs that the people responsible are going to take any steps in the right direction.

Also I believe that the amount of debt we are rappidly building is going to allow us to cut taxes to spur growth much longer. There is a tipping point at which that option becomes obsolete

The only long term solution to our debt/deficit problems is a robustly growing private sector economy. Everything else can at best only turn the fiscal cliff in a slope.

I don't see the economy growing fast enough to counter balance the spending our govt does. Without massive debt reduction methods its all moot. At best we will stay afloat but nothing will be gained. The race between the rate of growth and spending is a lose lose situation.

We must press for a balanced budget amendment

 

[toomuchtime_]

Well I am referring to long term fiscal solutions. I suppose in the end it really doesn't matter as I haven't seen ANY signs that the people responsible are going to take any steps in the right direction.

Also I believe that the amount of debt we are rappidly building is going to allow us to cut taxes to spur growth much longer. There is a tipping point at which that option becomes obsolete

The only long term solution to our debt/deficit problems is a robustly growing private sector economy. Everything else can at best only turn the fiscal cliff in a slope.

I don't see the economy growing fast enough to counter balance the spending our govt does. Without massive debt reduction methods its all moot. At best we will stay afloat but nothing will be gained. The race between the rate of growth and spending is a lose lose situation.

We must press for a balanced budget amendment

Balancing the budget isn’t rocket science. All that is required is for revenues to grow faster than spending. According to the Congressional Budget Office’s alternative budget scenario, revenues will grow over the next several years, as a result of such natural factors as population growth and a return to more normal levels of economic activity, from their current 15.8 percent of GDP to 18.5 percent of GDP by 2022 — even if the Bush tax cuts are extended in their entirety. Even without a tax hike, the government will have a lot more money.

In fact, it will have so much more money that it isn’t even necessary to cut spending in order to balance the budget. If spending were simply held constant in inflation-adjusted terms, a growing economy would reduce federal spending to 18.3 percent of GDP by 2022. Thus, we could balance the budget with no tax increase whatsoever.

Obama: Tax

The key to success in this scenario is holding spending constant in inflation adjusted dollars, no easy task, and if we do this then the rate of economic growth will determine when the budget will be balanced, but it will eventually be balanced, if that's what we want, and without causing the economic pain and hardships that would follow spending cuts or new taxes.

 

[toomuchtime_]

This conflict is different though. We aren't in opposition to personal rights this time, everyone has the same rights now and there are none left over worth going to war over. This is a fiscal civil war. It's those that want versus those that don't want to pay them. I don't see a huge battle line drawn here it will simply come down to people not participating in the economic system. More layoff's will occur, more laws will be passed to make the people still working pay more which will end up in more layoffs. It's a vicious cycle that will eventually end up in those wanting more for nothing actually fighting each other for the nothing left over.

Once producing becomes secondary to those wanting the game is over. There will be a civil war but this one isn't going to be about military power like the civil war. This one is going to be played out on spreadsheets.

I just don't think Ken Burns will be able to do much with this kind of civil war.

I don't know who Ken Burns is.

He made a celebrated PBS documentary on the Civil War and many other highly regarded documentaries.