rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 21,139
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Yes, I'd rather have a more casual debate with people,
than engage with talking agendas and mindless slogans.
Wasn't that what was exciting about the inet in the beginning, that there were real people,
if a guy in late 80's Milwaukee happened to catch up with a Soviet scientist on some university network, it wasn't Capitalism and Communism that they were discussing...
Anyway, no I disagree.
You say you don't want to discuss different issues but each time come back with new comments and assertions, instead of actually addressing what I've been saying.
So what is it? What is left?
If to boycott Israel is your personal choice, no one is gonna check what brand of Tahinah is in your fridge, or force You buy Israeli, so why the need to twist it that anti-BDS laws infringe on personal rights when they actually deal with contractors and state funds, is it because BDS cares about anyones personal right to boycott, or because they simply don't want others to have that choice?
As for Your 'feel' about the Arab-Israel conflict, that is understandable,
despite its actual magnitude, it has drawn a disproportionate attention from the world community, as sort of a convenient scapegoat for all the regional, if not cosmic problems.
But I prefer facts, which BDS demonstratively despises.
Ever asked why all their 'historic" narrative starts always in the middle of the conflict,
at the point almost 80 into Zionism? And not a day before?
Because people might find out that no Zionist ever shot a bullet before the Arab pogroms,
In fact the whole Zionist organization was initiated in response to the murder and expulsion of the Jewish community from all the holy cities in Israel, the infamous Damascus Affair and the following Arab pogroms throughout the Caliphate.
So if You want to talk about the Arab reaction to Zionism, You cannot ignore their part in initiating the endeavor. That reaction remained violent to large extent, but doesn't serve as an evaluation much in of its own, it's a violent society, and we're talking about a bunch of former dhimmis regaining sovereignty, the only non-Muslim country in the entire middle east.
As for 'the devastation', again let's look at the facts:
despite the image created by the media, it's the least devastating conflict in the region.
There're cities in the US with homicide rate higher in a decade than the casualties in all the 70+ years of the Arab-Israeli conflict combined, on both sides.
And I can actually argue the opposite of what You say with ease.
First of all Israel is a success story, for Israelis, and even for the average Palestinian Arabs,
who live under Hamas or PA, if You actually look how they lived before Zionism, and I'm not talking about the Ottoman bourguisee who lost their feudal status.
Despite the propaganda image, Palestinian Arabs are firm middle class of the Arab world,
not UAE and Saudia of course, but much better than the average Egyptian, and certainly above that of the neighbors. But that's their Arab neighbors, what will You say,
when You actually drive around a day or two and find out that Israeli Arabs
and Palestinian Arabs maybe have different licence plates, but usually stand out by having the sports cars and mensions that the average Israeli Jew usually doesn't even dream about,
so there's a reason Arabs call them "Cream Arabs"... not only Israeli Arabs dominate large chuncks of the Israeli economy and actively participate in the startup industry,
but so in their footseps are walking many young who live under PA and Hamas.
But that's locally, however as with IT as just one of the examples,
there's a whole civilizational alternative to the stagnation of the Arab world.
Success draws interest, and these people, despite their opinion or side in the conflict, actually serve as inspiration to the young Arab generation, despite the violent aspects of the conflict through this interaction with what You've called 'the Zionist endeavor' to excell and compete in entirely new fields of interest that otherwise would be prevented, or at least widely discouraged by the state of the things in the Arab civilization.
I think You're confusing Zionism with British policy, which at times was pro-Zionist,
and at times pro-Arab. Both sides will tell You Brits served the otherand betrayed them,
because Brits served their own interests, but it is much easier to sell two dimensional agenda.
But that's jut the Arab civilization, look around the middle east, and with all the conflict stupidity of Israeli politics, do You see any worthwhile alternative for the middle east?
Anything around that even comes close to providing the same quality of life?
I know that not having other alternatives is not the best argument for anything to follow,
but then again Israel is the 11th happiest society in the world, not just the region.
But it also, You know, the only example of dhimmis gaining sovereignty,
an inspiration for many forgotten minorities in the middle east seeking for independence or protection from the Arab Muslim yoke as they were stuck together without distinction inside ridiculous ruler drawn borders as tuna fish by the Brits and the French, but don't interest the world...if half the energy spent on the noise about Palestinian Arabs was spent on talking about Kurds, they'd be independent 10 years ago, because they mean what they say,
why Israelis choose tp fight with them on their side when can,
and support in all possible seen and unseen ways when can't.
Ok, ok You said You didn't want to discuss all these different things...ok.
Then just answer this question, which I asked Tinmore as well,
think it sums up pretty much everything in BDS narrative,
because clearly, the goal is to eliminate Israel,
not to cause it to change,
and boycott a minority.
Q. Is there a reason why Arabs deserve to dominate the entire middle east
at the expense of all invovled?
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