Ali looks horrible

[samjones]

That's my gut feeling too ... that someone took advantage of him, and I wonder who really got that big paycheck.

Meh - he has Parkinsons, not Alzheimers. He should be as congnitively aware now as he has ever been and I think he probably just wanted to do a public appearance. The Champ knows what people are going to think.... he's a master at assessing public opinion.

I don't see any real opportunity for a big paycheck and believe me, if there's anyone who knows about getting taken advantage of for a big paycheck it's Muhammed (Cassius Clay) Ali.

The world knows he has Parkinsons. I think he probably just wanted to hear the roar of the crowd again.

Why not? How many times have you ever had 50,000 people standing and cheering for you? I'll be it feels pretty good.

 

[Emma]

That's my gut feeling too ... that someone took advantage of him, and I wonder who really got that big paycheck.

Meh - he has Parkinsons, not Alzheimers. He should be as congnitively aware now as he has ever been

Confusion, memory loss and dementia often occur in later stages.

 

[samjones]

That's my gut feeling too ... that someone took advantage of him, and I wonder who really got that big paycheck.

Meh - he has Parkinsons, not Alzheimers. He should be as congnitively aware now as he has ever been

Confusion, memory loss and dementia often occur in later stages.

Do you have reason to belive that's the case, now? Ali has appeared in public fairly often with his illness. We've known that he has Parkinsons for over 25 years now. He looks worse every time, but what are you going to do? Fault him for choosing to be recognized for his accomplishments?

 

[Emma]

Meh - he has Parkinsons, not Alzheimers. He should be as congnitively aware now as he has ever been

Confusion, memory loss and dementia often occur in later stages.

Do you have reason to belive that's the case, now? Ali has appeared in public fairly often with his illness. We've known that he has Parkinsons for over 25 years now. He looks worse every time, but what are you going to do? Fault him for choosing to be recognized for his accomplishments?

I don't know if that's the case, but it's possible given his advanced stage of disease. In any case, in my first post on this thread I said I was torn ... if he was truly able to consent to do this, I'm ok with it no matter how uncomfortable it was to watch.

 

[samjones]

I don't know if that's the case, but it's possible given his advanced stage of disease. In any case, in my first post on this thread I said I was torn ... if he was truly able to consent to do this, I'm ok with it no matter how uncomfortable it was to watch.

I don't know how long you've been watching Ali.

These people in this thread who are calling him a "bad sport" or whatever just badly misunderstood the gamesmanship and "eye-on-the-prize" mentality that Ali had.

It wasn't until '96 that I realized that Ali simply could not speak any more. Period. Before that his speaking was limited and very quiet and slurred, but in '96 he just didn't talk at all any more. Ever.

It was sad to see. Because Ali was never a guy to keep his mouth shut.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't know if that's the case, but it's possible given his advanced stage of disease. In any case, in my first post on this thread I said I was torn ... if he was truly able to consent to do this, I'm ok with it no matter how uncomfortable it was to watch.

I don't know how long you've been watching Ali.

These people in this thread who are calling him a "bad sport" or whatever just badly misunderstood the gamesmanship and "eye-on-the-prize" mentality that Ali had.

It wasn't until '96 that I realized that Ali simply could not speak any more. Period. Before that his speaking was limited and very quiet and slurred, but in '96 he just didn't talk at all any more. Ever.

It was sad to see. Because Ali was never a guy to keep his mouth shut.

Ali defined poor sportsmanship

What he did to Joe Frazier went beyond gamesmanship and was outright cruelty

 

[samjones]

Ali defined poor sportsmanship

What he did to Joe Frazier went beyond gamesmanship and was outright cruelty

I will be a chilla and a thrilla and a kill when I get the gorilla in Manilla.

Joe Frazier so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wildlife.

Joe Frazier so ugly, when he cry the tears turn around and go down the back of his head.

And of course, let us not forget - "YOU UGLY JOE!"

It was things like that. The Uncle Tom blah blah was just a sign of the times. Ali taunted his opponents before the fight. Being the greatest boxer of all time, he might have felt that gave him some kind of edge.

 

[Dr Grump]

I remember someone asked Joe Frazier, who got the better of whom between the two of you....He said something like, look at me and look at him and tell me what you think. Joe is dead now, but for a while, you could argue with that logic. Ali has been looking like shit for a long time.

Don't like how the left has made him into a hero. I think he was a bad person. Having said that. It's not nice to see anyone in his condition.

He and Frazier were about the same - different styles, but as good as each other

He was made a hero because he was one. He was not a bad person , just an ordinary Joe..

 

[rightwinger]

Ali defined poor sportsmanship

What he did to Joe Frazier went beyond gamesmanship and was outright cruelty

I will be a chilla and a thrilla and a kill when I get the gorilla in Manilla.

Joe Frazier so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wildlife.

Joe Frazier so ugly, when he cry the tears turn around and go down the back of his head.

And of course, let us not forget - "YOU UGLY JOE!"

It was things like that. The Uncle Tom blah blah was just a sign of the times. Ali taunted his opponents before the fight. Being the greatest boxer of all time, he might have felt that gave him some kind of edge.

It went beyond that..

Ali stole Joe Fraziers championship. He couldn't do it in the ring so he did it in the media. Ali swore he would crawl across the ring if Frazier beat him. Instead, he swore it was the white judges who gave him the championship, declared himself the peoples champion. Frazier was the Uncle Tom Champion

Fraziers son Marvis should have been able to be proud that his father was the Heavyweight Champ. Instead, kids at his school called his father an Uncle Tom, white mans champ and Ali was the real champ.

Ali did more than call Frazier names.......he stole his dignity

 

[elvis]

Ali defined poor sportsmanship

What he did to Joe Frazier went beyond gamesmanship and was outright cruelty

I will be a chilla and a thrilla and a kill when I get the gorilla in Manilla.

Joe Frazier so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wildlife.

Joe Frazier so ugly, when he cry the tears turn around and go down the back of his head.

And of course, let us not forget - "YOU UGLY JOE!"

It was things like that. The Uncle Tom blah blah was just a sign of the times. Ali taunted his opponents before the fight. Being the greatest boxer of all time, he might have felt that gave him some kind of edge.

It went beyond that..

Ali stole Joe Fraziers championship. He couldn't do it in the ring so he did it in the media. Ali swore he would crawl across the ring if Frazier beat him. Instead, he swore it was the white judges who gave him the championship, declared himself the peoples champion. Frazier was the Uncle Tom Champion

Fraziers son Marvis should have been able to be proud that his father was the Heavyweight Champ. Instead, kids at his school called his father an Uncle Tom, white mans champ and Ali was the real champ.

Ali did more than call Frazier names.......he stole his dignity

How could anyone say Ali won the first fight? It was even except the knockdown. But the knockdown was key........

 

[samjones]

It went beyond that..

Ali stole Joe Fraziers championship. He couldn't do it in the ring so he did it in the media. Ali swore he would crawl across the ring if Frazier beat him. Instead, he swore it was the white judges who gave him the championship, declared himself the peoples champion. Frazier was the Uncle Tom Champion

How is any of this anything less than gamesmanship and the apex of boxing drama? This was perfection on so many levels. I'll tell you, no boxer ever won a belt by being angrier than his opponent. Ali knew this and he taunted in whatever way possible to make himself the fan favorite.

I'm not going to claim to have an in-depth understanding of how people felt at the time of Frazier/Ali the first. I remember the Thrilla and the Rumble. I can tell you that when I watched Ali box, I always had the view that he was the rightful champ and a proud, intelligent black man, fighting off a buch of thugs and bums. Indeed, at the end of his career he was climbing in the ring with a bunch of cartoon villains who absolutely personified the worst racial sterotypes imaginable. It was easy to perceive that a victory for Ali was a victory for civil rights.

Even in the 80's I had a hard time adjusting to the notion that George Foreman was generally affable pretty good guy. I just couldn't shake the notion that he was some really evil person.

I don't see the Ali taunts as being out of line. If he had Jeff Gilooly go hit Smokin' Joe in the knew with a lead pipe out in the parking lot after a workout? That would have been bad sportsmanship.