alan grayson threatens lawsuit on citizenship grounds if ted cruz is the gop nominee

[Vigilante]

And a snipette from the HARVARD LAW REVIEW, NO LESS!

There are plenty of serious issues to debate in the upcoming presidential election cycle. The less time spent dealing with specious objections to candidate eligibility, the better. Fortunately, the Constitution is refreshingly clear on these eligibility issues. To serve, an individual must be at least thirty-five years old and a “natural born Citizen.” Thirty-four and a half is not enough and, for better or worse, a naturalized citizen cannot serve. But as Congress has recognized since the Founding, a person born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent is generally a U.S. citizen from birth with no need for naturalization. And the phrase “natural born Citizen” in the Constitution encompasses all such citizens from birth. Thus, an individual born to a U.S. citizen parent — whether in California or Canada or the Canal Zone — is a U.S. citizen from birth and is fully eligible to serve as President if the people so choose.

On the Meaning of “Natural Born Citizen”

 

[Synthaholic]

LOL!

Faun, 2008 called and they want their standard for President back. So step into your time machine and run it back down their to 'em, will ya?

As an American who understands that the Constitution precludes Cruz from being President. I also understand that the same standard that prevents Cruz from taking office, prevented obama from taking office.

Now... does that in any way help you understand the problem ya have, dumbass?

I have no problem as I understand both are Constitutionally eligible. Not everyone is a sniveling birther like you. I just thought you ought to know that.

Is that what you understand?

Then by all means, explain to the reader, the purpose of the "Natural Born Citizen Status" as it was written and ratified in the late 18th century.

No doubt we'd all love to here your 'understanding'.

Reader brace yourself for something between zero and a wiki-link. I state that given the fact that Faun is a Leftist, thus has no understanding of the principles that govern republican governance.

This because... they're idiots.

The simple truth is, if they were capable of understanding such, they wouldn't be Leftist.

Naturally born a U.S. citizen as opposed to a naturalized citizen, like some of our first presidents were. There are only two statuses of citizenship, natural and naturalized.

In terms of citizenship, Ted Cruz enjoys precisely the same type of citizenship as does obama... His Mother is a US Citizen... as such Cruz US citizen is axiomatic.

This is however NOT the standard of Natural Born Citizen, which exists uniquely and exclusively for the President of the United States... as such it sits as the highest possible standard of citizenship... for the reasons already stated.

Again, whether you're capable of comprehending this or not... there are only two statuses of citizenship... Natural and naturalized.

This has been recognized since the inception of our Constitution which demands that all presidents be natural born citizens, not naturalized. But because there were no natural born citizens at the time the Constitution was written, a provision was included to allow for citizens who were naturalized at the time the Constitution was adopted.

In the 227 years since our first election, there have been several candidates to run for either president or VP who did not have two parents who were U.S. citizens. Some even won their election.

Chester Arthur, 1880
Charles Hughes, 1916
Barack Obama, 2008, 2012
Ted Cruz, 2016
Marco Rubio, 2016
Bobby Jindal, 2016

Wasn't George Romney born in Mexico?

 

[Synthaholic]

Btw unless he is the democrat nominee, or a nominee for a third party, he likely doesn't have any standing for the challenge.

I believe that's false. The POTUS makes decisions that affect all American citizens, therefore anyone can bring a suit.

What you believe does change reality

The reality is that I am correct.

You clearly haven't studied the topic of standing

Yet, you still cannot prove me wrong. Imagine that.

 

[Faun]

Forget statutes ... the Constitution is clear in that there are only two statuses of citizenship ... Natural and naturalized. That you think there's a third is laughable.

LOL! Of course forget statutes... because when Statutes are considered you argument is refuted.

Citizenship of a A Natural Born Citizen does not require a statute. PERIOD.

Your concession is duly noted... and summarily accepted.

This video explains it as well as it has ever been stated:




< Part 2 Explains the reason FOR the Standard.

Too funny, first you say I'm wrong because I'm relying on statutes; when I point out I'm not, you claim the statutes prove me wrong. But of course, statutes do not redefine the Constitution. You really should have known that.

 

[Faun]

Well one thing, if there is a debate and prime time TV picks up on it that is way more then they ever did for Obama. Although Obama was born in Hawaii it has been pretty much decided it really didn't matter as long as his mother was American.

Not exactly. If Obama was not born in Hawai'i, then the question becomes how many years of her adult life his mother resided in the US, and how recently prior to his birth. Given his mother's antipathy toward the US and penchant for chasing around the globe after lousy men, it would be a valid concern . . . which is why it was important to ascertain where Obama was born.

Add to that, that the term: Natural Born Citizen has no relevance to the location of one's birth.
Being born to two citizens, the framers assured to the extent possible that the individual would be raised in the US, trained up in American principle... as opposed to the single parent farce, wherein there is a fair probability that the child would be exposed to Foreign Ideas, which are often hostile to American Principle.

In obama's case, he was born to a US Citizen Mother, who had a visceral hatred of the United States... was soundly indoctrinated in Communism, an ideology that is purely antithetical to American Principle. She conceived a child with a Kenyan Communist (Anti-Colonialism; founded wholly in Marxism) who spent very little of her life in the US. What's more Hawaii in 1960; having just established itself as a State, was desperate to increase its Federal Legislative Seats, and was issuing Birth Certificates to families with adopted babies from overseas, who could show any signs of residency in Hawaii. It was rampant and a function of law in the Territory of Hawaii.

It's truly comical... The United States... In the midst of a catastrophic failure of Socialist Policy and a war with a large percentage of Islam, as it is hunting down Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein... elects as President of the United States: barak hussein obama. With a background SO dubious he could not have secured a national security clearance on a BET... .

He didn't get elected, he was selected by an anti-American cabal... whose identify should be discovered, and who should be 'debriefed' and executed... their substantial holdings divested and given to the families of those murdered by obama through his Islamic-terrorist friendly ROEs... and his refusal to provide security where it was needed most.

That his entire executive department was wholly politicized from the AG to the IRS... and that the Press malleably folded right in without the slightest curiosity, that was all one really needed to know, to know that such was systemic, that the rot went through from the center to the barrel.

So yes... there is a reason that the framers required that the President be a Natural Born Citizen... obama is the PERSONIFICATION of that reason.

Just as there is a reason that the Framers used that term, specifically wording it in such a way that confusion over its meaning is impossible, except where the will is to reject the principle it represents... and where the will is to reject the principle... the problem exposes itself.

Ted Cruz doesn't meet the standard... but as the first candidate post obama to be a "Mother Only Citizen", he is the antithesis of obama. He is a man with an unimpeachable character, an irrefutable life story and he could be the man to FIX the problem.

We'll see...

(Reader, I'm reposting this because two of our in-tread Relativists chose to give it a smiley face... thus claiming that they enjoyed reading it and I thought since they enjoyed it so much, that others of their ilk might also like to read it up at the top of the thread.)

Does this mean you will not vote for Cruz or Rubio should either one end up being the GOP presidential, or vice presidential, candidate?

I'm voting for Carson in the Primary... and given that obama has adjusted the precedent... that communist muslim is out of the cave... at this point, so if Cruz gets the nod... I'll vote for him with star spangled banner boots on.

If it helps... I advocated for Senator Cruz to not run... and did so on every Cruz thread here and everywhere else I write... when he was considering it. I even sent him a letter laying out my argument... he likely never saw it, but if he did, he didn't think much of it.

Which is fine... as you've pointed out, mine is the minority point of view.

None of that changes anything however, in that... HAD the Constitution been adhered to... obama would never have been President... . The US would presently be 9 trillion dollars less in debt... US GDP would have been averaging 4-5% if not higher over the last 7 years, unemployment would be below 5% (actually lower and not the plastic banana nonsense that the brown clown is reporting, when actual unemployment is closer to 15%), there'd be 45 million fewer people on Welfare, and US Unemployment insurance would not have been extended for 5 years... US Healthcare would not be in ruins, there would be no such thing as ISIS, Mubarek would still be in Egypt, Ghadaffi would still be in Libya, Iraq would be a stable nation, Syria would not be under Russian bombing Raids, the Four US Citizens that died in Benghazi would be alive... and there wouldn't be 400 shoulder fired SAMs waiting to start WW3 in the wake of massive international loss of life due to obama's ISIS when he leaves office. So on and so forth.

You'd vote for someone you believe is not Constitutionally eligible?

LOLOLOLOL

Figures. That puts you into the category of .... hypocrite. Too bad you don't stand up for your own convictions

 

[Vigilante]

Interesting how the NeoCommies just ignore this, which seems to settle the argument....which they will continue anyway!

And a snipette from the HARVARD LAW REVIEW, NO LESS!

There are plenty of serious issues to debate in the upcoming presidential election cycle. The less time spent dealing with specious objections to candidate eligibility, the better. Fortunately, the Constitution is refreshingly clear on these eligibility issues. To serve, an individual must be at least thirty-five years old and a “natural born Citizen.” Thirty-four and a half is not enough and, for better or worse, a naturalized citizen cannot serve. But as Congress has recognized since the Founding, a person born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent is generally a U.S. citizen from birth with no need for naturalization. And the phrase “natural born Citizen” in the Constitution encompasses all such citizens from birth. Thus, an individual born to a U.S. citizen parent — whether in California or Canada or the Canal Zone — is a U.S. citizen from birth and is fully eligible to serve as President if the people so choose.

On the Meaning of “Natural Born Citizen”

 

[Faun]

I have no problem as I understand both are Constitutionally eligible. Not everyone is a sniveling birther like you. I just thought you ought to know that.

Is that what you understand?

Then by all means, explain to the reader, the purpose of the "Natural Born Citizen Status" as it was written and ratified in the late 18th century.

No doubt we'd all love to here your 'understanding'.

Reader brace yourself for something between zero and a wiki-link. I state that given the fact that Faun is a Leftist, thus has no understanding of the principles that govern republican governance.

This because... they're idiots.

The simple truth is, if they were capable of understanding such, they wouldn't be Leftist.

Naturally born a U.S. citizen as opposed to a naturalized citizen, like some of our first presidents were. There are only two statuses of citizenship, natural and naturalized.

In terms of citizenship, Ted Cruz enjoys precisely the same type of citizenship as does obama... His Mother is a US Citizen... as such Cruz US citizen is axiomatic.

This is however NOT the standard of Natural Born Citizen, which exists uniquely and exclusively for the President of the United States... as such it sits as the highest possible standard of citizenship... for the reasons already stated.

Again, whether you're capable of comprehending this or not... there are only two statuses of citizenship... Natural and naturalized.

This has been recognized since the inception of our Constitution which demands that all presidents be natural born citizens, not naturalized. But because there were no natural born citizens at the time the Constitution was written, a provision was included to allow for citizens who were naturalized at the time the Constitution was adopted.

In the 227 years since our first election, there have been several candidates to run for either president or VP who did not have two parents who were U.S. citizens. Some even won their election.

Chester Arthur, 1880
Charles Hughes, 1916
Barack Obama, 2008, 2012
Ted Cruz, 2016
Marco Rubio, 2016
Bobby Jindal, 2016

Wasn't George Romney born in Mexico?

Yes, but I'm only talking about candidates with at least one parent who was not a U.S. citizen at the time of their birth.

 

[auditor0007]

i know, the birther thing again, doesn't seem to want to go away.

anyway republicans want sick people to die quickly. grayson is back. he is the dizzying hugo chavez of our American congress.

Alan Grayson Threatens Lawsuit on Citizenship Grounds if Ted Cruz Is the GOP Nominee - Breitbart

if you google die quickly, you get this:




COLMES: Well, his mother was born here, so I guess like Obama, though it’s interesting to me the people who had a problem with Obama, though it’s interesting to me that the people who had a problem with Obama’s birth certificate don’t have a problem with Ted Cruz who literally was born in another country and renounced his Canadian citizenry.

GRAYSON: I don’t know … the Constitution says natural-born Americans, so now we’re counting Canadians as natural born Americans? How does that work? I’m waiting for the moment that he gets the nomination and then I will file that beautiful lawsuit saying that he’s unqualified for the job because he’s ineligible.

COLMES: So you’re saying should he get the nomination, Alan Grayson will file a lawsuit against his candidacy.

GRAYSON: Absolutely! Call me crazy but I think the president of America should be an American.

COLMES: Now I wonder, does he qualify because of having an American mother can considered an American citizen and in fact he renounced his Canadian citizenship to be an American citizen, but you’re talking about American birth, but I believe if that’s one of you parents —

GRAYSON: Look, even the anchor babies are actually born here. He doesn’t even meet that qualification.

COLMES: Right. And although I don’t like the term anchor babies, it’s been embraced by people like Donald Trump and Ted Cruz — not Ted Cruz — Marco Rubio who may in fact be one, as I understand.

GRAYSON: Oh, it’s shocking. In Cruz’s case, it is obvious what happened. The Canadians got pissed off at us for acid rain, so they gave us Ted Cruz.

grayson is not considered to be one of the high intellectuals of the DC congress...
alan colmes is just plain creepy.

Alan Grayson is an imbecile... obama's will have been in office for 8 years having been born to a foreign national Father and US Citizen Mother. There new precedent is set.

Prior to catastrophe of obama, Cruz was not qualified to serve as President... and as far as the letter of the Constitution is concerned he still is not... as a Natural Born Citizen is one whose Citizenship is a natural consequence of their Birth, and THAT is when BOTH PARENTS are Citizens in good standing of the nation at issue.

All of that is however out the window now... .

The Supreme Court has never taken this up to determine what is meant by "natural born citizen". What you interpret that to mean is what you interpret, but that does not necessarily make it so.

 

[Freewill]

Well one thing, if there is a debate and prime time TV picks up on it that is way more then they ever did for Obama. Although Obama was born in Hawaii it has been pretty much decided it really didn't matter as long as his mother was American.

Not exactly. If Obama was not born in Hawai'i, then the question becomes how many years of her adult life his mother resided in the US, and how recently prior to his birth. Given his mother's antipathy toward the US and penchant for chasing around the globe after lousy men, it would be a valid concern . . . which is why it was important to ascertain where Obama was born.

Hey, a consensus, case closed :

Most legal scholars maintain that Cruz is in the clear despite his Canadian birthplace.

Is Ted Cruz, born in Canada, eligible to run for president? (Updated)

But is the issue 100 percent settled? Not exactly.

Given conventional 'wisdom' Cruz is fine.

Given the catastrophe that's come as a result of the obama cult... we should at this point have no problem seeing in minute detail WHY CONVENTIONAL WISDOM on the meaning of the term: Natural Born Citizen... is not JUST WRONG... but HYSTERICALLY WRONG!

Where obama was born is irrelevant. He was born to a foreign national father, whose entire life was framed by his communist ideology. He was born to a US Citizen Mother, whose entire life was framed around her disdain for the United States and American principle, who spent large swaths of time out of the US, in countries hostile to the US.

A Natural Born Citizen is one who citizenship is the natural consequence of their birth. And it is such because BOTH PARENTS ARE CITIZENS IN GOOD STANDING. Such a union produces, to the extent possible, the likelihood that the child will be raised in and educated upon and will thus be loyal to: American Principle.

It is irrefutable at this point that obama, having been born to a foreign national hostile to American Principle is NOT loyal to the principles that define America... and which sustain the United States.

THAT is why the Standard was raised more than two centuries ago... and the catastrophe that has come as a consequence of obama could have been avoided by simply respecting that principle and rejecting the rationalization which rendered it useless.

You see... the Constitution is useless, unless the principles it protects are recognized, respected, defended and ADHERE TO.

It has pretty much been decided that being born in the US is not a requirement of being natural born. Obviously McCain was not born in the US and I heard few, at least on the right, question his eligibility. At least his eligibility based on his birth.

The political persuasion of Obama's parents should have been made known, and would have been made known by the media, but they didn't do their job. They were more interested in showing women crying as they listen to Obama speak from his faux Greek temple. Ideology should not be a requirement of running for president, but it sure should be known to the people who do actually vote so they can make an informed decision.

He is such a damn phony and who can like a phony? He ran on hope and change but called America the greatest country on Earth? Which is it Obama, the greatest or something that needs you to change? You know, a fundamental transformation.

 

[washamericom]

That one about G Washington wasn't born in America, that takes the f'ing cake. Who in hell would think up some shite like that.

If the Constitution excluded all that weren't born in the US, then every person born before the Constitution was signed would be ineligible, which would be EVERYONE. And no one would then be eligible by the Constitution for the next 35 years after that.

At some point you see someone say something and you are like, WTF!!!!

How can you be born in the United States if you were born before it became the United States?

in box # nine of george washington's long form birth certificate,
mary ball washington put european.

George Washington, 1732–1799 | Papers of George Washington

so there is your first "birther". just barely before hillary.

He WAS European when he was born.

Once again, so the fuck what? Are you even vaguely capable of focusing on real, relevant points?

sorry amigo, it's an inside birther joke. obama's box #9 says "african", which is a continent, not a race..i'm still a birther, i think he's hiding something in his past.

 

[washamericom]

Well one thing, if there is a debate and prime time TV picks up on it that is way more then they ever did for Obama. Although Obama was born in Hawaii it has been pretty much decided it really didn't matter as long as his mother was American.

Not exactly. If Obama was not born in Hawai'i, then the question becomes how many years of her adult life his mother resided in the US, and how recently prior to his birth. Given his mother's antipathy toward the US and penchant for chasing around the globe after lousy men, it would be a valid concern . . . which is why it was important to ascertain where Obama was born.

Hey, a consensus, case closed :

Most legal scholars maintain that Cruz is in the clear despite his Canadian birthplace.

Is Ted Cruz, born in Canada, eligible to run for president? (Updated)

But is the issue 100 percent settled? Not exactly.

almost like a scientific consensus right ?
just a reminder, the supreme court will hear an eligibility case sometime, but the boat has sailed on this election, there wouldn't be enough time. they take the time to define natural born.

 

[Flash]

 

[washamericom]

i know, the birther thing again, doesn't seem to want to go away.

anyway republicans want sick people to die quickly. grayson is back. he is the dizzying hugo chavez of our American congress.

Alan Grayson Threatens Lawsuit on Citizenship Grounds if Ted Cruz Is the GOP Nominee - Breitbart

if you google die quickly, you get this:




COLMES: Well, his mother was born here, so I guess like Obama, though it’s interesting to me the people who had a problem with Obama, though it’s interesting to me that the people who had a problem with Obama’s birth certificate don’t have a problem with Ted Cruz who literally was born in another country and renounced his Canadian citizenry.

GRAYSON: I don’t know … the Constitution says natural-born Americans, so now we’re counting Canadians as natural born Americans? How does that work? I’m waiting for the moment that he gets the nomination and then I will file that beautiful lawsuit saying that he’s unqualified for the job because he’s ineligible.

COLMES: So you’re saying should he get the nomination, Alan Grayson will file a lawsuit against his candidacy.

GRAYSON: Absolutely! Call me crazy but I think the president of America should be an American.

COLMES: Now I wonder, does he qualify because of having an American mother can considered an American citizen and in fact he renounced his Canadian citizenship to be an American citizen, but you’re talking about American birth, but I believe if that’s one of you parents —

GRAYSON: Look, even the anchor babies are actually born here. He doesn’t even meet that qualification.

COLMES: Right. And although I don’t like the term anchor babies, it’s been embraced by people like Donald Trump and Ted Cruz — not Ted Cruz — Marco Rubio who may in fact be one, as I understand.

GRAYSON: Oh, it’s shocking. In Cruz’s case, it is obvious what happened. The Canadians got pissed off at us for acid rain, so they gave us Ted Cruz.

grayson is not considered to be one of the high intellectuals of the DC congress...
alan colmes is just plain creepy.

Alan Grayson is an imbecile... obama's will have been in office for 8 years having been born to a foreign national Father and US Citizen Mother. There new precedent is set.

Prior to catastrophe of obama, Cruz was not qualified to serve as President... and as far as the letter of the Constitution is concerned he still is not... as a Natural Born Citizen is one whose Citizenship is a natural consequence of their Birth, and THAT is when BOTH PARENTS are Citizens in good standing of the nation at issue.

All of that is however out the window now... .

The Supreme Court has never taken this up to determine what is meant by "natural born citizen". What you interpret that to mean is what you interpret, but that does not necessarily make it so.

remember "natural born" is specific to two jobs.

 

[Flash]

[Q

Stop lying, rightie...

The story appeared on a rightwing blog on March 5th, 2008...

RUTHLESS ROUNDUP: FREEDOMS ENEMIES - THE OBAMA STORY

It must really suck for you to be an uneducated low information Libtard.

The Clinton shitheads tried to spin their way out of the fact that they are the ones to start the Obama Birther movement but they were exposed.

Clinton is bad about lying, isn't she?

Bombshell: 'Washington Post' Confirms Hillary Clinton Started the Birther Movement - Breitbart

‘Washington Post’ Confirms Hillary Clinton Started the Birther Movement

26 Sep 2015

New analysis from the Washington Post removes any doubt that the anti-Obama Birther movement was started in 2007 and 2008 by Hillary Clinton, her campaign, and her Democrat supporters.

As Breitbart News reported earlier this month, other left-wing media outlets, like Politico and the Guardian, had already traced the Birther movement back to Democrats and Ms. Clinton. Using his wayback machine on Wednesday, the Post‘s David Weigel took an in-depth look at the origins of the false rumors that President Obama is a practicing Muslim who was not born in a America. Weigel’s reporting contains the final pieces of a very disturbing puzzle.

What Weigel found and re-reported was astounding, details many of us had forgotten or never heard of, including a 2007 bombshell memo from the Clinton campaign’s chief strategist.

What the left-wing Weigel left out of his reporting was even more astounding, including a documented confrontation between Clinton and Obama over the Birther issue, and video of Hillary herself stoking doubt about Obama’s Christian faith.

 

[easyt65]

Alan Grayson is the dumbmass who said the GOP just wanted Americans to die yet is one of the members of a party that just wanted Vets to die... ' Nuff said.

 

[Faun]

[Q

Stop lying, rightie...

The story appeared on a rightwing blog on March 5th, 2008...

RUTHLESS ROUNDUP: FREEDOMS ENEMIES - THE OBAMA STORY

It must really suck for you to be an uneducated low information Libtard.

The Clinton shitheads tried to spin their way out of the fact that they are the ones to start the Obama Birther movement but they were exposed.

Clinton is bad about lying, isn't she?

Bombshell: 'Washington Post' Confirms Hillary Clinton Started the Birther Movement - Breitbart

‘Washington Post’ Confirms Hillary Clinton Started the Birther Movement

26 Sep 2015

New analysis from the Washington Post removes any doubt that the anti-Obama Birther movement was started in 2007 and 2008 by Hillary Clinton, her campaign, and her Democrat supporters.

As Breitbart News reported earlier this month, other left-wing media outlets, like Politico and the Guardian, had already traced the Birther movement back to Democrats and Ms. Clinton. Using his wayback machine on Wednesday, the Post‘s David Weigel took an in-depth look at the origins of the false rumors that President Obama is a practicing Muslim who was not born in a America. Weigel’s reporting contains the final pieces of a very disturbing puzzle.

What Weigel found and re-reported was astounding, details many of us had forgotten or never heard of, including a 2007 bombshell memo from the Clinton campaign’s chief strategist.

What the left-wing Weigel left out of his reporting was even more astounding, including a documented confrontation between Clinton and Obama over the Birther issue, and video of Hillary herself stoking doubt about Obama’s Christian faith.

Your conservative mental retardation is noted but that link doesn't help you.

Nothing Mark Penn told Hillary in 2007 had anything to do with Obama being born in Kenya. In the link you gave, it even says, Mark Penn was not a birther.

So now you're reduced to whining that anonymous supporters of Hillary sent out birther emails in April, 2008.

Which is where your delusions meet reality since a month before that, the story had already appeared in a rightwing forum; then echoed again days later in on March 5th, 2008, on a rightwing blog...

RUTHLESS ROUNDUP: FREEDOMS ENEMIES - THE OBAMA STORY

I know you're completely batshit insane Flush, so ask your asylum attendant which came first... March, 2008; or April, 2008.

 

[candycorn]

Let whomever wants to run, run. If they love the nation enough to want that job...more power to them.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

We know where he was born. We've known all along.

You actually don't. Ya think ya do... but in truth, ya do not.

This in contract to Ted Crus... Whose Birth origins are known by anyone that has ever been interested in knowing... because the information is readily available, well known among his family and friends and stands as an open book for anyone who wants to see it, to see it.

What's more... it is irrelevant to the qualification standards set by the Constitution.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Cool... I guess that mental midget didn't get the memo that it is bigoted to ask that question.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Did you have a problem with Obama being vetted for the job?

How many times?

Obamacare was repealed in the House over 50 times, costing millions and millions in taxpayer money.

There were 8 or 9 Benghazi investigations.

When do conservatives finally accept that they have failed, America is not behind them on an issue, and move on?

OH! Americans will know when they failed, when they've actually failed. obama will be history in a little over a year and like the Clinton legacy, the reality of that will come rockin' in, once he's gone. In Clinton's case we saw that on 9-11-01.

obama's treachery goes much, MUCH deeper, the catastrophe he is preparing will make 9-11 look like a walk in the park and could very well end the United States.

Which, if such turns out to be the case, will not be the point at which Americans failed, only the point where Americans can know in their hearts that tolerating Left-think was a colossal error and go to work solving that problem toward rebuilding a new union, sans Leftists.

Now you'll know when you've failed... as if you're hear, that will be when you're begging for your life, denying that you ever had a collectivist thought as an American stands over you preparing to throw your switch.

If you're in Europe, you'll know when you've failed when you're begging for your life, denying that you ever had a cock in your mouth, as a Muslim is standing over you screeching praises to its demon master.

Either way... we, the Americans, are a long way from finished and no matter how it turns out, it doesn't end well for you, the sub-human cult of the Ideological Left.