al-Zawahiri Claims Al Qaeda Victory in Afghanistan Close: Is He Right?

[LibocalypseNow]

In his latest video,Aymen al-Zawahiri,Bin Laden's right hand man claims victory in Afghanistan is very close. He also asked his fellow Muslims to come to Afghanistan to fight the Americans and offer monetary support. Things don't seem to be going very well for us over there in my opinion. I think it's fair to ask if Zawahiri is right. Are we losing Afghanistan? I would like to hear from others on this question. Thanks.

 

[ConHog]

Al Queda won the day the Great Moron was elected President.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Obama has already announced our surrender.... they have won.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yea they could be waiting us out. This President has announced that we will be out of both Afghanistan & Iraq by next year. Personally i'm very skeptical of these promises. I tend to think Afghanistan & Iraq will be a South Korea scenario in the end. I guess we'll see though. 2011 will tell the story.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Five more soldiers slaughtered yesterday and one captured by the Taliban. It does look like we are losing Afghanistan.

 

[Mr Natural]

If the Afghanis can't police themselves after ten years, they're not worth the effort.

Fuck 'em, time to come home.

 

[Gadawg73]

In his latest video,Aymen al-Zawahiri,Bin Laden's right hand man claims victory in Afghanistan is very close. He also asked his fellow Muslims to come to Afghanistan to fight the Americans and offer monetary support. Things don't seem to be going very well for us over there in my opinion. I think it's fair to ask if Zawahiri is right. Are we losing Afghanistan? I would like to hear from others on this question. Thanks.

Afghainstan has never been ours to win.
That has never been the military strategy there or in Iraq . We could "win" in 20 minutes.
The strategy is to get the Afghans to maintain their own country.
And they won't because they are religous in all aspects of life, uneducated, illiterate, lazy and corrupt.

 

[hipeter924]

In his latest video,Aymen al-Zawahiri,Bin Laden's right hand man claims victory in Afghanistan is very close. He also asked his fellow Muslims to come to Afghanistan to fight the Americans and offer monetary support. Things don't seem to be going very well for us over there in my opinion. I think it's fair to ask if Zawahiri is right. Are we losing Afghanistan? I would like to hear from others on this question. Thanks.

Afghainstan has never been ours to win.
That has never been the military strategy there or in Iraq . We could "win" in 20 minutes.
The strategy is to get the Afghans to maintain their own country.
And they won't because they are religous in all aspects of life, uneducated, illiterate, lazy and corrupt.

Yep. Some just considered bombing Afghanistan and Iraq into rubble and leaving them to rot in their own garbage....but we have more compassion than Muslims so we tried to reform them...so much for that.

 

[mudwhistle]

In his latest video,Aymen al-Zawahiri,Bin Laden's right hand man claims victory in Afghanistan is very close. He also asked his fellow Muslims to come to Afghanistan to fight the Americans and offer monetary support. Things don't seem to be going very well for us over there in my opinion. I think it's fair to ask if Zawahiri is right. Are we losing Afghanistan? I would like to hear from others on this question. Thanks.

It's not hard to believe because we currently have a President who's afraid to win for fear that it will anger Muslims.

It also seems Obama fears Fox News and Glenn Beck more then murderers cutting off people's heads on our Southern borders or terrorism in our cities. The Shirley Sherrod debacle proves that.

I figure all it will take is one massive attack with hundreds of US personnel dying and Obama will be pulling us out. Problem is somebody has to die for Obama to get his wish....a complete pullout of Afghanistan and Iraq.

I say do it now before any more die. As of yesterday 70 service members have died so far this month. Get us out now....because Mr. Obama...you don't seem to want to win....and the enemy knows it.

 

[Gadawg73]

In his latest video,Aymen al-Zawahiri,Bin Laden's right hand man claims victory in Afghanistan is very close. He also asked his fellow Muslims to come to Afghanistan to fight the Americans and offer monetary support. Things don't seem to be going very well for us over there in my opinion. I think it's fair to ask if Zawahiri is right. Are we losing Afghanistan? I would like to hear from others on this question. Thanks.

It's not hard to believe because we currently have a President who's afraid to win for fear that it will anger Muslims.

Seems Obama fears Fox News and Glenn Beck more then murderers cutting off people's heads on our Southern borders or terrorism in our cities. The Shirley Sherrod debacle proves that.

I figure all it will take is one massive attack with hundreds of US personnel dying and Obama will be pulling us out. Problem is somebody has to die for Obama to get his wish....a complete pullout of Afghanistan and Iraq.

I say do it now before any more die. As of yesterday 70 service members have died so far this month. Get us out now....because Mr. Obama...you don't seem to want to win....and the enemy knows it.

BS.
Same strategy as Bush used is what we have now across the board there.

 

[rightwinger]

If the Afghanis can't police themselves after ten years, they're not worth the effort.

Fuck 'em, time to come home.

I agree

There is no way to turn the Afghans into a modern fighting force. Their loyalties are not to the Afghan government but to their individual tribes and factions. Ten years is not going to fix what is wrong with Afghanistan...their problems have existed for centuries.

We will eventually pull out and Afghanistan will revert to its former self. if you want to call that losing ...you are welcome to do so

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Unfortunately most Americans are caught up in this manufactured Race-Baiting War to realize that we're actually losing a real War in Afghanistan. Just another sad distraction created by our Government and the corrupt MSM. So while accusations of Racism fly,our kids continue to die. What is a win in Afghanistan? Can it even happen?

 

[mudwhistle]

In his latest video,Aymen al-Zawahiri,Bin Laden's right hand man claims victory in Afghanistan is very close. He also asked his fellow Muslims to come to Afghanistan to fight the Americans and offer monetary support. Things don't seem to be going very well for us over there in my opinion. I think it's fair to ask if Zawahiri is right. Are we losing Afghanistan? I would like to hear from others on this question. Thanks.

It's not hard to believe because we currently have a President who's afraid to win for fear that it will anger Muslims.

Seems Obama fears Fox News and Glenn Beck more then murderers cutting off people's heads on our Southern borders or terrorism in our cities. The Shirley Sherrod debacle proves that.

I figure all it will take is one massive attack with hundreds of US personnel dying and Obama will be pulling us out. Problem is somebody has to die for Obama to get his wish....a complete pullout of Afghanistan and Iraq.

I say do it now before any more die. As of yesterday 70 service members have died so far this month. Get us out now....because Mr. Obama...you don't seem to want to win....and the enemy knows it.

BS.
Same strategy as Bush used is what we have now across the board there.

I know many of the guys that have been over there.

They told me changes have been made across the board. One of the most glaring is changes in the ROEs.

 

[Toome]

I guess I'm confused on this whole "victory/defeat" thing. Unlike conventional warfare, victory is pretty difficult to define in scenarios such as the ones in Afghanistan and Iraq. These are politically-defined end states. In conventional scenarios, such as the World Wars and just about every war before then, victory was defined by the battlefield commander standing over the dead bodies of his enemies, or the surrender of one combatant army to another. Things have gotten pretty complicated ever since the Korean War and most certainly since the Vietnam War.

Clausewitz's famous quote about war being a continuation of politics by other means was originally intended to define why rulers will conquer other lands. He still defined war within the conventional context but saw it stemming from political origins. Nowadays, his quote is much more accurate than perhaps he ever intended. War is nothing but politics.

We have a generation of ignorant Americans who truly believe that the North Vietnamese defeated the US military. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The US military slaughtered the North Vietnamese regular military and completely wiped out the Viet Cong. However, Vietnam was perhaps the first war that was not defined by the results on the battlefield. It was defined purely by the politicians. It was the withdrawal of American troops that signaled the political defeat of Vietnam.

Nixon suspended all offensive military operations in 1973 as a part of the Paris Peace Accords. He threatened to resume operations if the North Vietnamese violated the cease fire; however, he faced his own problems with a hostile Congress that promptly reduced military funding and the growing concerns over an incident at a hotel named Watergate. It wasn't until over two years since the US ceased military operations, completely withdrew its combat troops and that Nixon was gone under the cloud of the Watergate scandal that the North Vietnamese began its military offensive into the South until it finally captured Saigon.

But the understanding many young Americans have is that the North Vietnamese defeated the US military. That's a crock of shit. Defeat was purely defined in the halls of Congress when the Senate and House slashed the military budget and left only enough money to bring the troops home; it was defined in the polls when American voters elected those who promised to end the war; it was defined by the huge anti-war movement in the US.

I see the same thing happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yeah, Iraq has stabilized and appears to be on the road towards peace. But if some faction takes over and either radicalizes Iraq or is taken over by another Saddam-like despot, it will be painted as an American defeat. I also see the same thing happening in Afghanistan.

This isn't to say that we ought to avoid these types of engagements. It just means that we can't look at them in terms of victory or defeat. It doesn't mean the same thing anymore.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Our own current President has said that winning isn't even the goal anymore. Shouldn't the War have been ended immediately after he made that proclamation? What are our kids dying for at this point? It seems like we are stuck in some kind of grey-area limbo over there where a win cannot even be defined. It is very sad.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I guess I'm confused on this whole "victory/defeat" thing. Unlike conventional warfare, victory is pretty difficult to define in scenarios such as the ones in Afghanistan and Iraq. These are politically-defined end states. In conventional scenarios, such as the World Wars and just about every war before then, victory was defined by the battlefield commander standing over the dead bodies of his enemies, or the surrender of one combatant army to another. Things have gotten pretty complicated ever since the Korean War and most certainly since the Vietnam War.

Clausewitz's famous quote about war being a continuation of politics by other means was originally intended to define why rulers will conquer other lands. He still defined war within the conventional context but saw it stemming from political origins. Nowadays, his quote is much more accurate than perhaps he ever intended. War is nothing but politics.

We have a generation of ignorant Americans who truly believe that the North Vietnamese defeated the US military. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The US military slaughtered the North Vietnamese regular military and completely wiped out the Viet Cong. However, Vietnam was perhaps the first war that was not defined by the results on the battlefield. It was defined purely by the politicians. It was the withdrawal of American troops that signaled the political defeat of Vietnam.

Nixon suspended all offensive military operations in 1973 as a part of the Paris Peace Accords. He threatened to resume operations if the North Vietnamese violated the cease fire; however, he faced his own problems with a hostile Congress that promptly reduced military funding and the growing concerns over an incident at a hotel named Watergate. It wasn't until over two years since the US ceased military operations, completely withdrew its combat troops and that Nixon was gone under the cloud of the Watergate scandal that the North Vietnamese began its military offensive into the South until it finally captured Saigon.

But the understanding many young Americans have is that the North Vietnamese defeated the US military. That's a crock of shit. Defeat was purely defined in the halls of Congress when the Senate and House slashed the military budget and left only enough money to bring the troops home; it was defined in the polls when American voters elected those who promised to end the war; it was defined by the huge anti-war movement in the US.

I see the same thing happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yeah, Iraq has stabilized and appears to be on the road towards peace. But if some faction takes over and either radicalizes Iraq or is taken over by another Saddam-like despot, it will be painted as an American defeat.

Great points. Thanks.

 

[zzzz]

Victory? Defeat? It would appear that we are in a Vietnam scenario here where we build up our forces and "secure" the countryside and then withdraw leaving an eggshell government in charge that collapses once pressure is applied. We originally called this victory in Vietnam but history called it defeat.

There will never be total victory in Afghanistan. The Afghans are an independent minded people who have endured numerous invasions/occupations that have failed to subdue them. We say to ourselves “but we are helping them!” but to the Afghans we are occupiers and we are beginning to overstay our welcome. We have a choice here, stay for 50 years or withdraw “gracefully.” Our original mission was to get rid of Al-Qaeda and the atmosphere where they could conduct their training camps without interference (overthrowing the Taliban) and we succeeded in this. But once again mission creep surfaced and now we are trying to build a nation out of nothing. More than manpower, nation building takes money, money we do not have, money we need here in America.

The future: When we do withdraw the Taliban and Al-Qaeda will return and the area and build camps to train again. We will bomb them repeatedly over the coming years. A never ending saga.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

It's time for this Nation-Building folly to come to an end. Afghanistan & Iraq are not Japan & Germany. Many like to use Japan & Germany as comparisons but these comparisons just aren't valid. Japan & Germany were united peoples working together to rebuild their nations. Afghanistan & Iraq are anything but united peoples. They have far too much religious & ethnic division to ever really be rebuilt successfully. So people just need to stop comparing those Apples & Oranges. Time to come home. And while we're at it,lets bring our kids home from South Korea & Europe too.

 

[rightwinger]

Our own current President has said that winning isn't even the goal anymore. Shouldn't the War have been ended immediately after he made that proclamation? What are our kids dying for at this point? It seems like we are stuck in some kind of grey-area limbo over there where a win cannot even be defined. It is very sad.

Please explain...how do you define a win?

 

[rightwinger]

This is a problem with the overall Bush strategy of imposing Democracy on regions that have not had it for thousands of years

Bush wanted to establish solid Democracies in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Once they were in place, other nations in the area (eg Iran) would look to them as models and start revolutions for their own Democracies. This Domino theory of Democracy would change the character of the region and establish George Bush as the savior of the region

Unfortunately, reality took precedence oer Bush's simplistic strategy. The countries were established by Europeans and not the people of the region. There is no Iraq or Afghanistan only tribes, religious sects and local loyalties. Ancient rivalries and hatreds have not gone away and once the US peacekeepers pull out the old conflicts will return

There is no win in this US occupation. Democracy has to be fought for and cherished to take hold. This will turn out to be a failed experiment in nation building