al-Qaida No. 2: U.S. 'Ran' From Vietnam

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Lefty Wilbury, Oct 12, 2005.

  1. Lefty Wilbury
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    Lefty Wilbury Active Member

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    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/12/D8D6GP801.html

    al-Qaida No. 2: U.S. 'Ran' From Vietnam
    Oct 12 9:16 AM US/Eastern
    Email this story

    By KATHERINE SHRADER
    Associated Press Writer


    WASHINGTON


    In a letter to his top deputy in Iraq, al-Qaida's No. 2 leader said the United States "ran and left their agents" in Vietnam and the jihadists must have a plan ready to fill the void if the Americans suddenly leave Iraq.

    "Things may develop faster than we imagine," Ayman al-Zawahri wrote in a letter to his top deputy in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. "The aftermath of the collapse of American power in Vietnam _ and how they ran and left their agents _ is noteworthy. ... We must be ready starting now."

    Senior U.S. military commanders have said that Iraqi security forces are improving significantly and some U.S. forces could return home early next year. Yet skeptics have raised concerns about whether such statements simply let the insurgency know how long they must wait for the U.S. to leave.

    In a letter taking up 13 typed pages in its English translation, al- Zawahri also recommended a four-stage expansion of the war that would take the fighting to neighboring Muslim countries.

    "It has always been my belief that the victory of Islam will never take place until a Muslim state is established ... in the heart of the Islamic world," al-Zawahri wrote.

    The letter laid out his long-term plan: expel the Americans from Iraq, establish an Islamic authority and take the war to Iraq's secular neighbors, including Lebanon, Jordan and Syria.

    The final stage, al-Zawahri wrote, would be a clash with Israel, which he said was established to challenge "any new Islamic entity."

    The letter is dated July 9, and was acquired during U.S. operations in Iraq. It was written in Arabic and translated by the U.S. government. The Pentagon briefed reporters last week on portions of the document, but the full text was not available until Tuesday.

    In a statement, the National Intelligence Director's office said the letter "has not been edited in any way" and its contents were released only after it was clear no military or intelligence operations would be compromised.

    House Intelligence Chairman Peter Hoekstra, R-Mich., said his committee is reviewing the letter, but he cautioned "against reading too much into a single source of intelligence."

    In his letter, al-Zawahri, a Sunni, devoted significant attention to al-Zarqawi's attempts to start a civil war with the rival Muslim Shiite sect, the majority that now dominates the new Iraqi government. Ultimately, al-Zawahri concluded that violence, particularly against Shiite mosques, only raises questions among Muslims.

    "This matter won't be acceptable to the Muslim populace however much you have tried to explain it, and aversion to this will continue," he wrote.

    Al-Zawahri was also critical of the Taliban, which was toppled in the 2001 U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan, because, he said, they did not have the representation of the Afghan people. He said students of the Taliban retreated to their tribes.

    "Even the devout ones took the stance of spectator," al-Zawahri wrote.

    Contrasting that, he saw fearlessness in battles waged in the Iraqi cities of Fallujah, Ramadi and Al Qaim.

    At times, the letter got personal. Al-Zawahri said he tasted the bitterness of America's brutality, noting that his "favorite wife's chest was crushed by a concrete ceiling" during an apparent U.S. attack. His daughter died of a cerebral hemorrhage.

    To this day, he wrote, he did not know the location of their graves.

    The letter then switches to the court of public opinion.

    "More than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media," he wrote. "We are in a media battle in a race for the hearts and minds of our umma," or community of Muslims, he wrote.

    The line is an apparent reference to a phrase _ "hearts and minds" _ often used by President Bush.

    ___

    On the Net:

    Read the full letter in English or Arabic on the national intelligence director's Web site: http://www.dni.gov/release_letter_101105.html
     
  2. theim
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    theim Senior Member

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    So now the question to the lefties is: Since you now realize that Al Qaeda is rooting for you to suceed in getting America to pull out, what will you do now?
     
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  3. USMCDevilDog
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    USMCDevilDog Member

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    Can we just Nuke the mountains around Pakistan or Afghan or some shit, jesus, these guys need to die already.

    (nuke thing was a joke, not really serious)
     
  4. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    Guess I'll play the AQ #2 role and again point Vietnam. Giap said the American left was one of their greatest weapons. Did it slow the self-righteous asshats down a bit?

    Not even. You forget, in the lefty mind, being a live, snivelling coward and retaining no honor is okay.
     
  5. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    Not only is that ok...for a lefty it is preferable....
     
  6. Harmageddon
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    Dudes, did you forget to put cheese on your cracker?
    Can you look beyond the childish left/right blamegame and grow up for a change? No wonder this Al Zawahri laughs at you people.

    Anyone with a remote braincell does realize that Al Zawahri is an insane, sad, megalomaniac, narcistic piece of shit. Save for Al Zawahri himself of course.

    This guy has been trying to bring about an Islamic revolution since he first came to grips with the idea that the western culture, that is idolized in so many parts of the world, brings a lot of degrading qualities as well: think prostitution, rampant drug use, drunk people, whatever. How degrading (if at all) these things are depends on your point of view, but that's another discussion.

    However, most people can see he - or actually his master, Mohammed Kutu - has a point there. Moral decay seems to be frequent these days. This guy thought that to preserve some basic level of human values, Islam would be ideal to fulfill the role of shared values, that would steer humanity forward. Others think Christianity should fulfill this role, still others believe a secular law should be the framework that keeps society in check by punishing outrageous behaviour, such as thieving or murder.

    However, Al Zawahri wasn't paying attention as his cheese fermented to leave nothing but some fungal threads in his head. He believes that in order to persuade the masses to accept Islam as the unifying law, he should have to blow them up. Using suicide bombers.
    That way, people would be shocked back into reality to see there is something wrong with society and accept Islam as a guide instead.

    He has been trying this shit since the nineties, blowing up stuff all over the Muslim world. From Egypt to Jordan,from Sudan to Whateverstan did not convince the people there to discard the secular law and accept Islam as the framework for shared values to be dictated by law.

    Instead of accepting the fact he is insane, Al Zawahari then convinced Bin Laden this was still a great idea, but they just had picked the wrong target. They should put their efforts in bringing down the law in the epitome of western civilization. So then we've had to witness 9/11.

    The muslims have not been convinced in over 15 years to accept Al Zawahari's demands, because they refused to accept the terms that would bring them "regime change". Neither has 9/11 succeeded in doing this.

    But jet again, the same utterly failing strategy is being implemented, now by the United States of America: bring about regime change by blowing up a lot of things. It's not going to work. It has never worked. It will never work.

    Only if you succeed in taking over the country completely has it ever worked, i.e. the colonial times, but most of you seem to agree that should not be the goal in Iraq.

    Al Zawahari and Bin Laden are on the fringes of the Islamic world. And yet, these people get to steer foreign affairs now for over a decade already. They keep the Middle and Far East on their toes by spreading fear. And now these politics of fear have contaminated the west, and the west has responded by spreading it around the world.

    Afghanistan, Iraq, watch out Iran, North Korea, Syria, Lebanon, we're coming for you. Bow down to the tanks and missiles, or be annihilated. We will bring you regime change, by bombing your infrastructure to pieces.
    Great. Very mature response. That will show Bin Laden.

    So, may I ask you to refrain from this left/right whodunit and look beyond the borders of two political parties to what is actually happening? Cheers.
     
  7. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    The whole issue of left vs right has great impact on how this country operates both domestically and internationally. The fundamental differences betwen the two have a direct impact on who gets elected, who is in power, etc. maybe you should look beyond your own borders before trying to tell us to grow up!
     
  8. Harmageddon
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    My bad, just couldn't help myself.

    Actually, it would be wise to give a crap. If only a little one.
    Know your enemy. Makes fighting him a lot easier.
    Usually saves you from underestimating him too.

    I was trying to say these things exist everywhere. But to channel them through law, one could use different sets of law: secular or religious ones.
    This does not make them go away, but prevents them from escalating.

    Then why is enforcing "democracy" at the point of a gun excusable.

    Yes, both Saddam's regime and the Taliban are decimated. Iraq is still a total war zone, so we'll have to see what happens there.
    As for Afghanistan, the Taliban was merely one of many tribes of warlords, that preach exactly the same intolerance. Sure, they have their little differences, such as that the Taliban was very much against the poppy trade and was stricter than most with regards to women's rights. But now the poppy trade is in full operation once again, spreading heroin across the globe. And women's rights are still a sham, yes they may move out of the house, only to be gangraped by warrior tribes if they do.

    Karzai's influence in Afghanistan stretches to about a mile from his house. The rest of the country is being divided between the remaining warlords, and that is where the real power is in Afghanistan today. So it's basically the same, but different.

    Afghanistan is in the hands of warlords. But yes, the US has succeeded in bringing about a pipeline deal that will transport oil from the oilrich regions at the Caspian Sea around Iran through Pakistan to the Indian Ocean (or Arabic Sea). Whoever controls this pipeline is in for billions in profit.
    You may guess who owns it.

    Iraq it seems is not under any control at the moment. Save for the Green Zone around Baghdad, the whole country is a total mess.
    Besides that, Iraq has no history of blowing up American stuff, save for the British/American gas Saddam blew up in the face of the Kurds.

    Yes you may discuss whatever you want on this board.
    I was merely trying to point out this thread was not started with the name "left vs right, bash away" or something of that order.

    I can understand you wouldn't like that one bit. However, most muslims see an American/European dominated "divide and conquer" game being played in the sands of the Middle East. And they don't like it one bit.
    On top of that, they don't see what you are seeing, and you don't see what they are seeing.

    I have said Al Zawahri blows up stuff to prove his point.
    You have agreed that is insane and stupid.
    I have said America blows up stuff to prove her point.
    You have said that is for the good of your freedom.
     
  9. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Cuase the gun is pointed at the "bad" guys.



    Is this a bad thing?
    Garbage.




    Weapons can be used for good or for evil--are you disagreeing with that?
     
  10. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    I salute you for sticking to the Europeanist line. I will never agree with it though!
     

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