"Ain't it awful"

[Wicked Jester]

It seems the hoi polloi of conservative Republicans and conservative independents are bereft of ideas. Never have I read a post from this class which suggests thought, all (and I'm not engaging in hyperbole) of their comments are negative.
They, as a group, never define problems - though they always blame (fill in the blank, liberals, Democrats, progresssives, women, non-whites, immigrants, Muslims, Jews) and never accept responsibility for problems or errors.
Typically they post the daily talking points, propaganda, lies, half-truths and rumors issued by leaders of the Republican Party (and The Dear Leader of the Republicans seems to be Rush Limbaugh).
Just once it would be nice if someone, anyone, who defines themselve as a conservative would define a serious problems (such as health care) and suggest real world solutions.

Here's your definition. lil' one:
75% of americans are perfectly happy with their healthcare the way it is. Less than 50% of americans approve of Obama's performance thus far. Face it, ya' loony liberal hack, YOU FUCKED UP!

 

[Wicked Jester]

Hey there Wry! I agree with you wholeheatedly. There was a 60 Minutes episode where a former head of the TSA stated that most of the security measures in place to day do nothing more than attempt to make people feel safe. These measures have not and do not actually make us any more safe.

Yet we haven't been attacked in 8 years.
Not only are liberals weak, they are completely stupid. Once again, YOU'VE FULLY PROVEN IT!

 

[skookerasbil]

the new strategy..............give the bad guys some Subway Sandwiches and a few bottles of Coke FTW!!!

 

[Diuretic]

Let the free market rule? That's fine for many things but probably not for health care. A question I've asked a few times is "should health care be a commodity?" comes to mind.

If it should be a commodity then the free market is probably a good mechanism to use.

If it shouldn't be a commodity then the free market shouldn't be invoked.

If health care should be a commodity then the market mechanisms will give it to those who can pay for it, those who can't pay for it won't get it.

If it shouldn't be a commodity then government is the agency that should ensure it's delivery.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I see wicked jester is still confused by cause and effect. As I noted before, those on the right wing are anti-intellectual, some because they choose to be ignorant (the willfully ignorant) and some because they're actually stupid.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Just once it would be nice if someone, anyone, who defines themselve as a conservative would define a serious problems (such as health care) and suggest real world solutions.

I am not a conservative but will nevertheless accept your invitation.

Healthcare has been regulated by the government since 1840.

But , in spite of that, it was substantially affordable before 1965, before the Medicare/Medicaid wet into effect.

Accordingly, the answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind, ....get government at all levels the fuck out of healthcare


Let the invisible hand of the FREE MARKET regulate healthcare or forever hold your peace and pay the consequences!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


.

The Japanese government is all over healthcare with regulation, and the Japanese pay about half what we do for healthcare that is as good as ours.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Let the free market rule? .

Until bailouts are needed, then the free market guys call in their political IOU's and the politicians shake down you and me for their payoff.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Basically all Obama has done so far is clean up the big ugly bowel movement George Bush put on our country.

Obama, has used the plunger and is still working on flushing away the mess Bush and his buddies left.

Obama, not that big fat turd Limbaugh, predicted it would get worse before it got better.

Obama's report card will not be complete until 2012.

Bush and the burgerking goof grades are in; "F".

 

[Wry Catcher]

Food for thought, the way things ought to be:
Sex education ought to be taught in schools. Age appropratie sex education as part of a general health curriculum will reduce unwanted pregnancy, the spread of SED's and satisfy the natural curiousity of children.
Low cost, universal health care, available to all will reduce unwanted pregnanacies and therefore abortions by making available to all women education and contraceptives. Helping women at risk of being coerced to engage in unproteced sexual intercourse
Likewise, low cost, universal health care (yes, the government option) will provide pre-natal health care to single women who do become pregnant and our uninsured, as well as well baby care after the birth of a child.
And of course, low cost, universal health care (that government option) will help prevent the spread of infectious disease; the uninsured and ill ma seek early treatment rather than sit/stand next to you, your parents, kids or anyone else on the bus, in a movie, or in line at the grocery because they can't afford medical attention. It will reduce the number and cost of emergency room visits, too.

And, the conservative chic who 'scream' "Socialism" will also be able to receive treatment from a free and unfettered mental health program, allowing them to someday think critically and not suffer the delusional disorder which infects them from too much Limbaugh and other sources of paranoid propaganda.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Morning Yank, how are U?
I always feel safer flying now that I get to see everyones feet unshoed at the airport, don't you?
And I feel so safe going to NFL and MLB games after my sandwhich has been crushed by security. The NFL now hires 'security' to pat down every fan, never have they looked in my field glass case to see what was there. I suspect the security is more to prevent people bringing in their own beer. The stadium wants to sell 8 oz of beer for $10 and don't really give a damn that drunks at NFL games are a greater threat than a terrorist - there's a hell of a lot more drunks than terrorists.

THIS!, is far and away the most ridiculous post ever seen up here.
Buy your food at the stadium ya' cheap bastard!
LMAO!..Trying to sneak your food into a stadium. What a freakin' MORON!
Christ, liberals are friggin' idiots!

 

[VaYank5150]

THIS!, is far and away the most ridiculous post ever seen up here.
Buy your food at the stadium ya' cheap bastard!
LMAO!..Trying to sneak your food into a stadium. What a freakin' MORON!
Christ, liberals are friggin' idiots!

Wicked Jester can't refute a word of the post, so instead he makes himself look like an even bigger ass than he is by attacking the poster. What a sad life he must lead.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Notice those on the right always resort to ad hominem attacks and then cut and run when challenged. Please refer to my post #49 and the response from Wicked Jester (aka, lib smacking chef... before he was banned) in post #50.

WJester is an example of the conservative chic; a class (without class) of persons unwilling or unable to think critically and examine the platitudes and propaganda of the right wing. Very rarely do they debate an issue on its face, or provide reasoned arguments to counter arguments which challenge their beliefs. It's too bad there are few true conservatives willing to post credible arguments in support of conservative values, all we read here and on most message boards are appeals to emotions supported and defended by other logical fallacies.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Notice those on the right always resort to ad hominem attacks and then cut and run when challenged. Please refer to my post #49 and the response from Wicked Jester (aka, lib smacking chef... before he was banned) in post #50.

WJester is an example of the conservative chic; a class (without class) of persons unwilling or unable to think critically and examine the platitudes and propaganda of the right wing. Very rarely do they debate an issue on its face, or provide reasoned arguments to counter arguments which challenge their beliefs. It's too bad there are few true conservatives willing to post credible arguments in support of conservative values, all we read here and on most message boards are appeals to emotions supported and defended by other logical fallacies.

Wryboy, you're an example of a far left liberal hack who believes everything should be handed to you on a silver platter. Coddled cradle to grave by your government. The fact that you support Pelosi's lil' puppet, Barrack Hussein Obama, trying to shove that Fiasco of a healthcare bill down the citizens of this great country's throat, without even knowing what's in that joke of a bill himself. That lame a$$, anti-american piece of garbage STILL has no clue what's in that bill. It's a freakin' joke. But then liberals are friggin' idiots, so it comes as no surprise.
Face it ya' loony liberal fool. Barack HUSSEIN Obama is making you liberals look like the true idiots you are. He has lil' support for his bill and, his overall support is going down the tubes. And that is a very good thing for this great country and those who don't hate it as you do!
Oh well, you were dumb enough to vote for that communist pile o' garbage. The demise of this great country AND EVERYTHING IT STANDS FOR is on your loony liberal head. DEAL WITH IT!, lil' man.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Morning chef, nice to see time has mellowed you somewhat. Oh, btw, in your most recent post, you again resorted to name calling - ad hominem attacks to the infomed - and ignored actual debate. Now, I don't believe you're stupid, but, you are willfully ignorant, and therefore too uninformed to discuss issues sensibly.

 

[Ringel05]

Food for thought, the way things ought to be:
Sex education ought to be taught in schools. Age appropratie sex education as part of a general health curriculum will reduce unwanted pregnancy, the spread of SED's and satisfy the natural curiousity of children.
Low cost, universal health care, available to all will reduce unwanted pregnanacies and therefore abortions by making available to all women education and contraceptives. Helping women at risk of being coerced to engage in unproteced sexual intercourse
Likewise, low cost, universal health care (yes, the government option) will provide pre-natal health care to single women who do become pregnant and our uninsured, as well as well baby care after the birth of a child.
And of course, low cost, universal health care (that government option) will help prevent the spread of infectious disease; the uninsured and ill ma seek early treatment rather than sit/stand next to you, your parents, kids or anyone else on the bus, in a movie, or in line at the grocery because they can't afford medical attention. It will reduce the number and cost of emergency room visits, too.

And, the conservative chic who 'scream' "Socialism" will also be able to receive treatment from a free and unfettered mental health program, allowing them to someday think critically and not suffer the delusional disorder which infects them from too much Limbaugh and other sources of paranoid propaganda.

Interesting idilic musings, laudable but idilic non-the-less. Let's inject realism in terms of cost (my primary objection to the government option). Name one major government social program that has been instituted and annually maintained at the cost originally projected and is not currently in danger of becoming bankrupt without major reductions in services and infusions of cash.
A quick study shows that all such program's "start up" and maintenance costs ave been at least ten times higher than projected.
To put this in perspective the projected cost of government health care is 1.5 trillion dollars over 10 years. Now multiply that by 10 (the more realistic number) and you arrive at 15 trillion over the next 10 years. One can only imagine where that money will have to come from.
The plan being worked on doesn't truly address the problem of rising health care costs, a simple look at the laws of supply and demand will show that. Not only are these forces not being addressed, the plan (in my humble but accurate opinion) will only make it worse.
Some people want us to return to a relative isolationist position and focus our efforts on purely domestic issues, money for domestic usage not military necessity. Once again, a laudable but uninformed and misguided approach, in today's modern global economic/political landscape this is impossible, and proven historically to be a harmful waste of time.

 

[Ringel05]

Notice those on the right always resort to ad hominem attacks and then cut and run when challenged. Please refer to my post #49 and the response from Wicked Jester (aka, lib smacking chef... before he was banned) in post #50.

WJester is an example of the conservative chic; a class (without class) of persons unwilling or unable to think critically and examine the platitudes and propaganda of the right wing. Very rarely do they debate an issue on its face, or provide reasoned arguments to counter arguments which challenge their beliefs. It's too bad there are few true conservatives willing to post credible arguments in support of conservative values, all we read here and on most message boards are appeals to emotions supported and defended by other logical fallacies.

If you've been on forums long enough and have maintained an open mind, it becomes obvious that your statement applies equally to both sides, without exception.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There are lunatics to be sure Ring, and to be fair the radical chic of the 60's and 70's attracted the same type of loons the conservative chic attracts today.
My posts are not intended to convince the extremists; I post my opinions based on my life experience, education and what I think would make our nation a better place. Fact is the "idilic musings" of Locke, Mill, Rousseau and Jefferson, and others, lead to the Declaraton of Independence and our Constitution.
Of course there were practical considerations, arguments and debate, and problems to overcome, but this did not dissuade those who gave birth to this great experiment in self government.
Men and women of good will who work together towards common goals can and have accomplished the improbable. Your comments warrant concern and debate, in re the cost of universal health care, but the matrix has not been computed. Suggesting enormous costs, and not considering potential savings is only one part of the story.

 

[Ringel05]

There are lunatics to be sure Ring, and to be fair the radical chic of the 60's and 70's attracted the same type of loons the conservative chic attracts today.
My posts are not intended to convince the extremists; I post my opinions based on my life experience, education and what I think would make our nation a better place. Fact is the "idilic musings" of Locke, Mill, Rousseau and Jefferson, and others, lead to the Declaraton of Independence and our Constitution.
Of course there were practical considerations, arguments and debate, and problems to overcome, but this did not dissuade those who gave birth to this great experiment in self government.
Men and women of good will who work together towards common goals can and have accomplished the improbable. Your comments warrant concern and debate, in re the cost of universal health care, but the matrix has not been computed. Suggesting enormous costs, and not considering potential savings is only one part of the story.

Agreed, but unfortunately the current musers in congress (and the body politic) don't appear to want to take practical considerations into account. The entire focus seems to be politically driven. The scariest part for me is both sides are willing to potentially sacrifice liberty (as our founding fathers invisioned it) for security, economic and physical. But then that is inclusive within the life cycle of socio-economic entities.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I wish we had "musers" in Congress, convictions based on deep thinking by members of the House are rare indeed. Members of the House, owing to have to run for office every two years, do what they are told (otherwise no money come electon year).