Ahem...

[White knight]

Also, contrary to the anti Bush verbal diarrhea we hear on a daily basis, he understands this concept and bases many of his economic policies on this.

I was under the impression that he was a blundering idiot, based upon his past performance prior to public office, in other words he was a failure as a businessman.

Also based on reporters who knew him prior to him becoming Governor of Texas, he knew nothing about Government; he had to be schooled for months by political insiders.

He is a Front man for Big Money Interest, and that is why he has a good pro business team behind him, not because he understands anything.
We have all heard the reports about how he does not like to read any reports, how can you learn or make good decisions by not reading reports. It’s simple someone else makes these decisions for him, that’s why he does not read the reports.
BTW, his blind supporters would say he does not have to read them because he was born knowing everything.

Of course the money interest are going to set up a good playing field for themselves, CEO’s are accountable only to stock holders with the mandate to increase share returns at the expense of the public and their employees.
If you don’t believe this just look at the unprecedented amount of corporate scandals we have had in the last four years. Enron, ADM, Halliburton, WorldCom, SEC's accounting fraud, Wachovia, and LILO tax shelter, Bank scandals like Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) you will find the Bush faimily name in this one along with some unsavory others.

Your right, people with power and money will always put the public intrest before theirs.
I think that is just a dirty rumor or lie that 87 people alone have more wealth then the entire nation of China.
The man must be a financial genious, because you say so.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

BTW, his blind supporters would say he does not have to read them because he was born knowing everything.

I have never said that. I don't think he knows everything. I just happen to agree with Bush on many more things than I agree with Kerry on.

If you don’t believe this just look at the unprecedented amount of corporate scandals we have had in the last four years. Enron, ADM, Halliburton, WorldCom, SEC's accounting fraud, Wachovia, and LILO tax shelter, Bank scandals like Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) you will find the Bush faimily name in this one along with some unsavory others.

How do you think the boom (and then the bust) happened when Clinton was in office? I also think your way off with regards to the Bush family being involved in all those.

 

[UsaPride]

WorldCom

WorldCom? LMAO!! You're gonna blame Bush for WorldCom? LOL!! I do know about WorldCom. My husband worked for WorldCom before they were WorldCom. He then switched companies after WorldCom bought MCI because WorldCom was letting MCI ruin the company. Then was laid off thanks to WorldCom not paying their bill. Bernie Ebbers was getting that money, didn't have one thing to do with Bush. OMG!! This is amazing!!!

 

[White knight]

; they show an administration which sought intelligence to support doctrine, not base doctrine on intelligence; made rash decisions on numerous occasions relying on shaky or very little evidence,

I have noticed this too and not because I’m a Kerry Supporter, but because it sticks out as unusual.
It suggest incompetence, but we all know that he is not entirely incompetent, and neither is his team. So it would leave you to belive that he is trying to advance a agenda and looking for or manufacturing excuses to justify the action to support this agenda.
This sound allot like the term Crisses Management, this is a good thing when you have a crisses, but in some fields of the government black arts this is used as Machiavelli strategy.
You create the crisis so you can then create the strategy. This is not the first time this has been talked about in administrations.
Do you own research and see which administrations have been associated with this mode of operation.

 

[eric]

The man must be a financial genious, because you say so

Those are your words, not mine, I never said genious, rather sensible policies. Reread my post, I speak from personal experience, on what basis do you speak ?

He is a Front man for Big Money Interest

Much the same way Kerry is a Front man for organized labor as well as big money. Show me a politician not influenced by special interest !

that is why he has a good pro business team behind him,

God you know very little about how to run a business. The worst thing you can do is to try and be a jack of all trades and a master of none. This is exactly what good business people do.

Of course the money interest are going to set up a good playing field for themselves, CEO’s are accountable only to stock holders with the mandate to increase share returns at the expense of the public and their employees.

Sorry but I take exception to the last part of your statement; you are stereotyping all CEOs, when in fact this is not true. How many CEOs do you know personally ? Is this once again just another uninformed opinion on your part ?

You quote extreme examples in the companies you list, but you forget about the 10s of thousands of companies and CEO's that play the game straight, trying to produce profits while providing good jobs to their employees, and superior products and services to their customers.

I was under the impression that he was a blundering idiot, based upon his past performance prior to public office, in other words he was a failure as a businessman.

This statement is just too stupid to even debate, little more than your opinion and sarcastic comments.

 

[White knight]

WorldCom? LMAO!! You're gonna blame Bush for WorldCom? LOL!! I do know about WorldCom. My husband worked for WorldCom before they were WorldCom. He then switched companies after WorldCom bought MCI because WorldCom was letting MCI ruin the company. Then was laid off thanks to WorldCom not paying their bill. Bernie Ebbers was getting that money, didn't have one thing to do with Bush. OMG!! This is amazing!!!

You obviously missed the point, this what I find disturbing about Bush’s blind supporters.
Read it again, it refers to how big corporations cannot be trusted to act in the good of public interest.

Damm, look how my points are droping into the red, must have hit some nerves.

 

[UsaPride]

You obviously missed the point, this what I find disturbing about Bush’s blind supporters.
Read it again, it refers to how big corporations cannot be trusted to act in the good of public interest.

Damm, look how my points are droping into the red, must have hit some nerves.

I guess I did miss the point, read it again and still can't find one. I'm not a blind Bush supporter. Just sick of the "Blame everything on Bush" attitude from Bush haters.
Didn't go red because of me. You haven't hit any of my nerves, I've come to expect things like this from people like you.

 

[White knight]

[

Sorry but I take exception to the last part of your statement; you are stereotyping all CEOs, when in fact this is not true. How many CEOs do you know personally ? Is this once again just another uninformed opinion on your part ?

You quote extreme examples in the companies you list, but you forget about the 10s of thousands of companies and CEO's that play the game straight, trying to produce profits while providing good jobs to their employees, and superior products and services to their customers.

This statement is just too stupid to even debate, little more than your opinion and sarcastic comments.
That's because you can't support it, It is know fact that he was a failure as a business man.

Now, I'm not allowed to make sarcastic comments? wow, shame on me. I must have been the first to stoop this new low.
It is a fact! that is what is so disturbing about you Pro Bush supportters, you are in denial, He was a bad , bad, bad Business man.

Getting back to CEO's and corporations pull up a copy of any annual shareholders meeting. In them you will hear CEO talk about how they are working to increase shareholder profits, it’s all about profits. PROFITS
Show me one reading of minutes where it is talked about providing good jobs to their employees, and superior products and services, they talk about increasing profits.

I met a man from the big corporate town of Benton Harbor, MI. We meet while in a small town setting he could not stop commenting on how nice it was to get away from their. He continued to go on about how nice it was to be among average people, that the people in the corporate town, he could tell which of them were snakes, almost implying that some were evil snake.

Noooo, money does not do this to people. I don’t think that when people win the lottery or a big inheritance, that they find them selves surrounded by snakes.

Let me put my rosy glasses back on.

 

[eric]

Getting back to CEO's and corporations pull up a copy of any annual shareholders meeting. In them you will hear CEO talk about how they are working to increase shareholder profits, it’s all about profits. PROFITS
Show me one reading of minutes where it is talked about providing good jobs to their employees, and superior products and services, they talk about increasing profits.

I don't need to pull anything up, I, unlike you am actually part of the shareholders meetings. Again, I speak from firsthand experience not conjecture. I provide extremely good jobs to my employees and this is proven in our team spirit as well as our balance sheets. You are the one who is blinded by your conceived notions. You obviously dislike capitalism, embrase a more socialistic view, and can not bring yourself to have an open mind. You speak of how we can not see Bush's failures, well you on the other hand can not see his strengths. So go ahead and live in your fantasy world believing that all corporations are big bad wolves with Bush as the head of the pack, but stop trying to convince us that you are some sort of a free or enlightened thinker. You too are blinded by your convictions !!!

 

[White knight]

I believe in truth, if the facts present themselves to change, I will change my opinion and not be stuck supporting one ideology.

Capitalism is the only way to tame and civilize the world; it should be the strong that do this in a fair playing field.
Bush’s big money backers are strong, but he is not.
He is someone who did not benefit from free and strong competition. His entire life’s success was only due to family connections.
You must be right; we should trust him not to do any favors for anyone because he benefited from the same ol boy favor network.
He will create an even and level playing field even for the competitors of his buddies.
I must be living a gum drop fantasyland to even think people take advantage of their influence and positions of power.

 

[eric]

The bigger question is; what difference does all this make if his current and future policies provide a climate where business can once again experience growth, prosperity, and the confidence to hire ?

Whatever you may think of corporations and their leadership, they employ the American public, so therefore their growth is directly linked to our standard of living. Yes, you will always have the greedy, it is human nature, not to go away anytime soon, but that should not create a knee jerk reaction to punish all business for the acts of a few. This is the problem that I have with the Democratic party's school of thought;

Tax the corps, tax the rich, even though we pay the burden of the taxes already !

Raise the minimum wage and provide every employee health insurance even if you are a small company and can not really afford to do so !

Save the environment at all costs, even if it means many people's jobs or reliance on foreign nations for vital resources !

Regulation after regulation, regardless of how much the regulations cost companies in terms of compliance.

On and on it goes, but I choose to stop here, for I am getting sick to my stomach already !!!

Maybe it is not our love for Bush, but rather for the more conservative values that he stands for in contrast to his opposition. Either way, you know who will be getting my vote, and the votes of people who truely understand what is good for this country in the long run.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

You create the crisis so you can then create the strategy. This is not the first time this has been talked about in administrations.

What crisis did Bush create?

that is what is so disturbing about you Pro Bush supportters, you are in denial

Oh, but you're not in denial when you come in hear with your bullshit.

I met a man from the big corporate town of Benton Harbor, MI. We meet while in a small town setting he could not stop commenting on how nice it was to get away from their. He continued to go on about how nice it was to be among average people, that the people in the corporate town, he could tell which of them were snakes, almost implying that some were evil snake.

That was one guy. There are also plenty of people who don't feel that way as well.

Getting back to CEO's and corporations pull up a copy of any annual shareholders meeting. In them you will hear CEO talk about how they are working to increase shareholder profits, it’s all about profits. PROFITS
Show me one reading of minutes where it is talked about providing good jobs to their employees, and superior products and services, they talk about increasing profits.

1) How do you know that some CEOs don't talk about that?

2) So what if they keep talking about profits. Last time I checked, that's the goal and many business that don't make a profit fail.

3) Just because they talk about profits first and foremost, it doesn't mean that they don't care about providing good jobs and superior products and services. If they didn't also care about those things, they couldn't make a profit because no one would want to work for them and no one would by their products.

 

[White knight]

Go back to sleep, you missed the point of the argument that I was responding too.

Unchecked power and greed is a good thing, for you religious conservatives, open up you history book and turn to the chapter about a righteous religious order called the Knights of Templar, see what happened to them when their righteousness went unchecked.

 

[eric]

for you religious conservatives

Where the heck did this come from, frustration ??? Reaching ???

I have studied the Knights Templar (not Knights of Templar) and do not find many correlations between this organization and modern religous conservatives without either reaching or making blanket assumptions. You do ??

 

[Avatar4321]

Go back to sleep, you missed the point of the argument that I was responding too.

Unchecked power and greed is a good thing, for you religious conservatives, open up you history book and turn to the chapter about a righteous religious order called the Knights of Templar, see what happened to them when their righteousness went unchecked.

The whole idea you a proposing is observed. righteousness doesnt need to be checked. its inherently good. Righteousness is the exact opposite of greed and power hunger. your whole statement here makes absolutely no sense.

 

[White knight]

Yes pick apart the words, because your losing focus on the argument.

Just open up the history book and read about them, I think it is under the title Good Gone Bad.

 

[eric]

Yes pick apart the words, because your losing focus on the argument.

No friend, I am not the one who introduced religious conservatives into a debate about Bush's economic policies, that was you, and came from left field. Furthermore the reason for picking apart the words is the condescending tone you keep using in your posts, as though you more educated than the rest, which obviously is not the case.

 

[eric]

Just open up the history book and read about them, I think it is under the title Good Gone Bad.

Did you not read my previous post ? I told you I have already read about them and find little if any correlations.

 

[drowe]

Well now, boyo, if you actually read the citations on the website, you would note that they all had documentation to back them up. The facts are there...Are you willing to see them though? Or would you rather just follow the maunderings of the Bush administration until, lemming-like, you plunge over the cliff and into the ocean below?

Yes I looked at the citations they are quotes from Al-Jazeera and the NY Times perhaps the two most unquestionably distorted media organizations on the planet (along with the BBC).

In keeping with your party’s practice (and many other undisciplined children), I asked you a question that you could not answer so responded with personal attacks instead.