Aggressive Dog Strategy

[AllieBaba]

My kids used to jump on my Rotty, pull her ears, snatch food out of her mouth. She never "bit" either of them. Nor growled, snarled or barked.

That's messed up, Babble.

Yeah, well, a Rottie isn't a parson, and your kids aren't mine.

I'm not a retard, ravi and I know dogs. I've spent lots of time around dogs. If I tell you that this is an issue we can deal with, you can believe it is.

But here's what non-animal (and liberal) people don't get...people can choose to participate in activities that you would never choose to participate in. And they can choose to participate in those activities with their kids. Animals are risky...a lot of bad things can happen with animals. You can confine yourself to the ones that pose no risk and require little in the way of interaction or consideration on your part, and that's absolutely fine. But I like different types of animals. I like to work with animals that actually need to be worked with, I always have...and I take on the risks that go with that hobby. Also, when I take a dog, I'm not interested in getting rid of it if it hits a rough patch or turns out to have some problem. Where would Mylo go if I let her go? What would happen to her? She's our dog. We love her, and she loves us...and the kids ADORE her. She sleeps with my daughter, and when we go out, it is my daughter who likes to walk Mylo. They're like soul mates, lol. And I get that you don't understand or approve, ravi. But these are the choices I get to make, and my children I think benefit from that little increase in risk.

Yes Mylo has nipped my daughter in the face...when my daughter was trying to shove her into a crate when there were other dogs around (after specifically being told not to do that), when my daughter has literally jumped on her, and when she has grabbed Mylo's head and thrust her own face into hers. All things that will trigger almost any animal, particularly small ones that can, potentially, be injured by such actions, to bite. Your Rottie was undoubtedly in no fear when your kids did those things to him. They couldn't cause any damage to him. But a dog like Mylo can suffer broken bones and worse when they are handled improperly by creatures bigger than they are. It makes sense that she bit. And although it didn't feel good, she could have done a lot more damage than she did. Also, I've had to grab Mylo more than a few times when she's in full wigout mode, including when she's jumped another dog (loose dogs every time...people, don't let your dogs run! If they happen to be trotting by my house when someone opens the gate, Mylo's gonna jump them!) and despite the fact that she's actively fighting with the other dog and I have my bare hands (and kinda my face, too, cuz I have to bend over) she's never nailed me. I've had her five years, probably pulled her off 4 or 5 dogs, and in that situation I've never been bit by her...I think it's unlikely she's going to savage my daughter's face...

There's inherent risk in a lot of activities we do with our kids. Hiking can be dangerous...we risk running into rattlesnakes, bear, cougar...not to mention falling off cliffs or just getting injured. 4-wheeling is potentially deadly, and lots of people do that with their kids. Riding horses, water skiing, regular skiing...all are risky up to and including the possibility of death. But we can't just sit around with stuffed animals and have tea parties. We venture forth and we take our kids with us.

 

[AllieBaba]

Terriers are just this way. The classic is pit bulls. It's not that they are a pit bull, it's that they are a terrier.

Just waaaaaaaaaaaay larger than a yorkie. I love them. If I could ever get hold of one of these, I think I'd died and gone to heaven.

There's this terrier in the UK that when sent down in a hole for a badger I think it is, this terrier must not make a sound, kill the badger in the hole and bring it to the surface without a sound.

Glenn of Immals. Oh boy before I die, I'd love to meet one.

My son has a pit, and you're right...pit bulls are just big terriers. They are killers, that's what they do (not just pits...but all the terriers). I think it's funny...I read the pros and cons of owning a parson...and one of the cons is that you aren't supposed to ever leave 2 terriers alone in a room together, regardless of the sex...so, so true!! They are dogs that need constant supervision, constant interaction, and you have GOT to be the boss. Which isn't easy, cuz they're usually pretty darned assertive.

Mylo is a wonderful little dog. I'm talking about her foibles here, but everybody loves her, even the people who have been nipped by her! She's a happy dog most of the time, adn so, so busy! She will run back and forth all day with the kids, and she does. She is a dog that can keep up with them, that doesn't pose a real threat to them, and yet can and will protect herself and maintain her own autonomy as well. Nobody drags Mylo around the yard; nobody teases her. If you are a kid and you tease Mylo, she'll bite you. maybe not right away, either....she will pick and choose her time, lol. But treat her with some respect and expect respect from her, and you're fine. Even the people who walk their dogs by our yard, who get barked at by her, or who have been unfortunate enough to have her run up to them (sigh) cuz SOMEBODY LET HER OUT...even those people like Mylo. She makes them exasperated, adn sometimes we all have to move kinda quickly, and there's always a lot of noise...but she's brave and funny, and tough as nails...it's impossible not to like her.

My daughter would be heartbroken if we ever got rid of her.

 

[AllieBaba]

Getting ready to take the kids and Mylo hiking, hopefully there will be other dogs. And my camera battery is charged and ready to go..I'll take pics so that in the event I ever find the cable that allows me to download (upload?) pics I'll have a lot of Klaus and Mylo the Terrible.

 

[AllieBaba]

I'll try to get some action pics, but usually if there's action my hands already have something to do. I know, I'll let the kids take the pics!

Eventually, I'm getting packs for the dogs so they can pack things for us on these hikes...their own water and various other things, at least.

 

[AllieBaba]

Got all the way up there with just Mylo and NO OTHER DOGS. We were the only ones there, we could have taken Klaus and had a ball!

Anyway, she enjoyed it; we saw a hare. She didn't bark at it. I guess she saves that for other dogs.

 

[Vel]

Sounds like Mylo is already improving with the training you're doing. She'd probably benefit from participating in a good training class with other dogs. I'd stay away from the Pet Smart type programs and look for the local trainers that compete in obedience trials. I'd explain to the trainers what your problems are and see if they'll help you socialize Mylo with their very well behaved and in control dogs.

 

[Ravi]

I'm not a retard, ravi and I know dogs. I've spent lots of time around dogs. If I tell you that this is an issue we can deal with, you can believe it is.

But here's what non-animal (and liberal) people don't get..

So having a well behaved dog is a liberal thing?

 

[strollingbones]

must be ravi.....none of my dogs have ever bitten a child ....most dogs must be trained to bite...a human....

 

[AllieBaba]

Sounds like Mylo is already improving with the training you're doing. She'd probably benefit from participating in a good training class with other dogs. I'd stay away from the Pet Smart type programs and look for the local trainers that compete in obedience trials. I'd explain to the trainers what your problems are and see if they'll help you socialize Mylo with their very well behaved and in control dogs.

I live in a very, very rural area..no trainers, no classes. Besides which, I don't think any class would tolerate her, she never stops the barking and attacking.

 

[AllieBaba]

must be ravi.....none of my dogs have ever bitten a child ....most dogs must be trained to bite...a human....

Maybe most dogs...but the terriers I've seen who bite (and there are a LOT of them) weren't trained to bite by anyone. They are just hair trigger biters, lol. You have to know how to approach and deal with them, they're aggressive, they have a really strong prey drive, and people who have terriers will tell you, sometimes they bite. That's not to say they all bite all the time, or there aren't terriers that would absolutely never bite...but they are not like herding dogs, or water dogs, or companion dogs. They are bred to kill things. Mylo is a parson russell terrier...a mix of russell terrier and fox terrier...and fox terriers hunt and kill FOXES. They are fighting, scrapping, intense dogs that have a strong drive to kill, and they are very quick to snap.

Mylo chomps her jaws when she's playing, lol. She snaps her teeth continuously and very quickly...it's funny, but she has no control over it. So when you're playing with her you continually hear her teeth snapping, though she isn't truly snapping at you, it's just what she does when she's excited, and it isn't a nervous thing, she's happy!

I've had lots of dogs that would die before they would bite anyone, and I've had dogs that were ferocious but would never hurt or intimidate a child. Mylo isn't like those dogs. She loves the kids but she's a tough hombre and will nip for a variety of reasons.

For a while a few months ago, she wouldn't let kids in my room. It started out of nowhere, and it went away the same way...but she'd be on my bed with me, and the kids would have to wait at the door for me to kick her off the bed before they could come in. If they did come in, she would growl, then launch herself at their midsections and chase them out. And though they would laugh, they would scream and run..for real, not just being silly...cuz though she's not trying to kill them, it isn't pleasant when she hits you in the gut and takes a nip out of your fingers or ass (which is what she gets if you turn your back on her).

She doesn't do it now, I assume she got tired of getting booted off the bed (she wouldn't do that from the ground...that was a territorial thing, she got over it).

Anyone who thinks that all dogs are the same and who think you can be around terriers and never get bitten are lying to themselves. Aggressive dogs are sometimes just aggressive, and if you deal with them you will get bitten at some point...and not because they were taught to bite you. And people who don't know that and who aren't willing to deal with it should never have terriers, and should certainly never, ever mess with pits. Cuz pits are terriers. My son's pit is a sweetheart...he has never bitten anyone...except my son, once. He was never taught to bite, he's extremely well socialized, he loves children and is loving and gentle with them (in kinda a goofy way). But he has to know who is boss. Not through abuse or bullying...just through constant reminders. My son never stops training him, he never stops challenging him, he never stops establishing that he is the boss. He does it by controlling his feed bowl, he does it by putting him on his back, by making him lay on his bed....a dozen different ways. And Snoop has never offered to snap at anyone. The kids actually sleep ON him, we have pictures of it. He plays in their funny little tent system (with the tube?) with them. He steals stuffed toys and lets the little ones all over him.

But Snoop isn't Mylo. A 35 lb kid to him is nothing, it can't hurt him. If one flops on him when he's sleeping, he isn't startled, he just rolls over. If a kid throws herself on Mylo, Mylo is going to nip. She's startled and a 35 lb kid can hurt her.

Aggressive dogs aren't like run of the mill dogs...I've never had an aggressive dog myself before, I really, really notice the difference. It's an innate difference, and it's a choice I made for me and my family to go ahead and deal with it. I'm glad we did, Mylo's great for our family. And she is improving...nobody in my family is scared of her, if you get bit by Mylo, you have it coming.

 

[Tank]

Get rid of the aggressive dog

 

[AllieBaba]

Uh, no.

 

[Tank]

The dogs a hassle, and a liability

 

[AllieBaba]

So is your ass.

The hassle is mine to own, I'm having fun with it.

She has yet to bite anyone outside of my front yard. The kids she has bitten were teasing her or otherwise being inappropriate with her.

All animals are a liability, incidentally. Our cars are liabilities. My horse (and anybody's horses) is a huge liability.

Life is risk and this is one we're okay with. Mylo is the reason my daughter hasn't been bitten more often and more severely than she has.

 

[tinydancer]

must be ravi.....none of my dogs have ever bitten a child ....most dogs must be trained to bite...a human....

Maybe most dogs...but the terriers I've seen who bite (and there are a LOT of them) weren't trained to bite by anyone. They are just hair trigger biters, lol. You have to know how to approach and deal with them, they're aggressive, they have a really strong prey drive, and people who have terriers will tell you, sometimes they bite. That's not to say they all bite all the time, or there aren't terriers that would absolutely never bite...but they are not like herding dogs, or water dogs, or companion dogs. They are bred to kill things. Mylo is a parson russell terrier...a mix of russell terrier and fox terrier...and fox terriers hunt and kill FOXES. They are fighting, scrapping, intense dogs that have a strong drive to kill, and they are very quick to snap.

Mylo chomps her jaws when she's playing, lol. She snaps her teeth continuously and very quickly...it's funny, but she has no control over it. So when you're playing with her you continually hear her teeth snapping, though she isn't truly snapping at you, it's just what she does when she's excited, and it isn't a nervous thing, she's happy!

I've had lots of dogs that would die before they would bite anyone, and I've had dogs that were ferocious but would never hurt or intimidate a child. Mylo isn't like those dogs. She loves the kids but she's a tough hombre and will nip for a variety of reasons.

For a while a few months ago, she wouldn't let kids in my room. It started out of nowhere, and it went away the same way...but she'd be on my bed with me, and the kids would have to wait at the door for me to kick her off the bed before they could come in. If they did come in, she would growl, then launch herself at their midsections and chase them out. And though they would laugh, they would scream and run..for real, not just being silly...cuz though she's not trying to kill them, it isn't pleasant when she hits you in the gut and takes a nip out of your fingers or ass (which is what she gets if you turn your back on her).

She doesn't do it now, I assume she got tired of getting booted off the bed (she wouldn't do that from the ground...that was a territorial thing, she got over it).

Anyone who thinks that all dogs are the same and who think you can be around terriers and never get bitten are lying to themselves. Aggressive dogs are sometimes just aggressive, and if you deal with them you will get bitten at some point...and not because they were taught to bite you. And people who don't know that and who aren't willing to deal with it should never have terriers, and should certainly never, ever mess with pits. Cuz pits are terriers. My son's pit is a sweetheart...he has never bitten anyone...except my son, once. He was never taught to bite, he's extremely well socialized, he loves children and is loving and gentle with them (in kinda a goofy way). But he has to know who is boss. Not through abuse or bullying...just through constant reminders. My son never stops training him, he never stops challenging him, he never stops establishing that he is the boss. He does it by controlling his feed bowl, he does it by putting him on his back, by making him lay on his bed....a dozen different ways. And Snoop has never offered to snap at anyone. The kids actually sleep ON him, we have pictures of it. He plays in their funny little tent system (with the tube?) with them. He steals stuffed toys and lets the little ones all over him.

But Snoop isn't Mylo. A 35 lb kid to him is nothing, it can't hurt him. If one flops on him when he's sleeping, he isn't startled, he just rolls over. If a kid throws herself on Mylo, Mylo is going to nip. She's startled and a 35 lb kid can hurt her.

Aggressive dogs aren't like run of the mill dogs...I've never had an aggressive dog myself before, I really, really notice the difference. It's an innate difference, and it's a choice I made for me and my family to go ahead and deal with it. I'm glad we did, Mylo's great for our family. And she is improving...nobody in my family is scared of her, if you get bit by Mylo, you have it coming.

I think this is one of the most perfect posts I have ever seen by a dog "owner" who knows exactly what he/she had/has and what you are dealing with and still having the honesty to go "I'm not liking this part".

May I suggest something?

Terriers of all the breed classifications are working dogs. So bear with me on the simplest of remedies for Mylo.

Frisbee. It's really that easy. A great jack breeder that I knew always recommended this. And we are talking a great 14 inch still hunting full cry breeder from the golden horseshoe.

Give them something to do and they will love you. Make them work. And this is where children can become so involved and become part of the pack. And tossing the frisbee makes the dog "work". This is why you see the best dogs at any event that makes them work is a terrier.

lol, and stick to frisbee. One person I know was silly enough to teach her jack to chase hoola hoops.

Next door kids birthday party with every child having a hoola hoop around their waist didn't end pretty. Now no children were hurt, and Barney was thrilled that he could save so many children from the dreaded hoola hoops around their waists but this moment in dog history didn't go down well.

I still think Barney is a champ, but oh my.......

 

[AllieBaba]

Lol...yes she is a working breed but she's also a killing breed. We play very hard with her, and she has the pup to wear her out as well. Her aggression isn't from lack of things to do...

But having said that, you're absolutely right. The only way to fix her (and it's going to take time) is to actively interact with her WHEN she's in that aggressive mode. That's what I've been doing since we got the pup, and what I'm working on much more consistently now. That's why WHEN she is trying to attack, I'm making her do things. I'll tell her to sit, for example, if she's in the house, and heel and we go to the back of the house, and sit again...and when we're outside, the strategy is to get her to disengage her focus, and if that doesn't work, to put her on her back.

Right now her job is to mind when she wants to attack. But in my life, everything happens rather slowly because I'm a working single mom; we're busy and the things that happen quickly are usually because we're late for something, lol. And as I've said, she's not a pup, she's 7 years old now.

I am going to ask some of the local dog walkers to help me....these are dogs that Mylo sees every single day walking by, and she goes ballistic. Her particular nemesis is another terrier (yup). She absolutely goes bananas when he and his owner walk by (she used to have 2). It's because they go by so often, not because they do anything wrong. Anyway, that lady is a dog lover and I know she'll let us walk with her. I think if we were able to turn them loose in the yard, they'd be buddies.

She doesn't play fetch. When Mylo catches something, she doesn't let it go until it's good and dead, and then she's not interested in it anymore, lol.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Allie, my dog Penny was 10 months old when we adopted her from the spca. We were told by the spca that the people who owned her had her since she was a pup of about 10 weeks but they were in an apartment and weren't allowed to have pets. That, along with the fact that this dog was clueless how to walk on the end of a leash when we got her, tells me that this dog was taken outback to pee and that was it. She was never socialized with other dogs at the critical time of 3-4 months. As a result she more often than not goes nuts when other dogs walk by and when she's out on walks. There are some dogs that she seems not to mind but the majority of them she does.

The dog next door -- female cock-a-poo, small about 20 lbs. or so -- she HATES. They got her probably a year after we had had Penny. We have a fenced in back yard so Penny can run free but their yard isn't fenced in so they walk their dog around the yard. The mom and kids see that Penny goes nuts whenever their dog is out so they generally take their dog around the other side of their house. Not so with the Mr. Personally I think he has a Napoleon complex and takes pleasure in Penny going bonkers whenever he walks their football . . er, I mean dog around. He purposely walks that dog right next to our fence when Penny is out, he purposely throws a ball towards our fence when Penny is out so their little dog runs directly at Penny. Penny doesn't know our property line ends at the fence, she sees this little bundle of enemy coming straight at her and wants to rip its head off. She's just being a dog defending her territory.

The Mrs. was walking their dog one morning and was just about infront of our drive when I opened the big garage door at the same time Penny ran into the garage (we were getting in the car and Penny was going with us). Penny took off and was all over that little dog like white on rice. OMG, I thought she was going to eat her! She didn't, didn't even break skin or anything, we finally got her off of that little dog. I offered to pay for any vets bills (turns out their dog had a bum knee and was headed to the vet anyway) but she was fine. The Mr. must have screamed 'motherfucker' 20 times. Funny thing is . . . now he rarely walks his dog by our fence or throws the ball towards it when Penny is out.

Sorry, that was kind of rambly wasn't it? lol The folks on the other side of us have Flash . . . the Mr. is a fireman. They told us that Flash didn't do too well w/other dogs either. Penny used to go ballistic when Flash was out. One time she was all at the fence barking and going nuts and Flash came over. He had had enough of her nonsense and went back at her. Since there was a post and rail fence between them I wasn't too worried. I do believe that Flash nipped Pennys nose a bit and . . . Penny has been fine with him ever since. I hold firmly in the belief that she just needs other dogs to put her in her place and she will stop with much of her aggressiveness.

It sounds like Milo is more aggressive but just keep that in mind. Milo may only end up fighting but maybe she is like Penny with some dogs and just needs to be shown who is boss. I think taking Milo to dog parks with other dogs and their owners being aware of Milo's aggressiveness is a good way to approach her issues. Good luck!

 

[Zoom-boing]

Oh yeah, one other thing. Whenever we encounter a dog that Penny tolerates and the dog goes to sniff her butt? Penny completely stiffens up and seems rather incensed (lol, ok that's just me projecting my humaness onto her) that a dog would actually do that. That's when she gives off a low growl and I just pull her away from the other dog and she's fine. She is clearly not amused by it though.

There's a book I'm reading called "The Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know" by Alexandra Horowitz. I'm not too far into it yet but it seems as if it will give new insight into how dogs think . . . cause they really don't think like us. Also did you ever read 'The Other End of the Leash' by Patricia B. McConnell, PH.D? That's a great book about how dogs think and how they 'see' us and why we do what we do around dogs.

 

[AllieBaba]

I've got to take Mylo to the vet..her false pregnancy symptoms are worse again and I can't leave her for 8 days without her seeing the vet.

 

[saveliberty]

A dog that bit my kids repeatedly would be hit with a shovel and buried in the backyard. There are a ton of dogs that need a good home.