Again with the Fiat Currency...

[bush lover]

Our dollar is actually higher under our President Bush, because of his pro-growth policies, than it was under Clinton's socialist policies. (For Mr. Bigmeat, I'm comparing the 90's lows with the lows this decade, for example, CHF1.11 then vs. CHF1.23 or so now).

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Ha, food, shelter and water have intrinsic value. Gold is useless if you are on a deserted island, but water, food and shelter isnt.

Im not saying its wrong to use gold as a standard, just that it has not much value just like paper money.

There's no such thing as intrinsic value, it depends on the item and the person. A fat well-fed american with a pantry full of food may place nearly no value on a barrel of wheat; someone starving in Ethopia may kill for it.

In all fairness, lots of gold advocates will say that gold has intrinsic value. What they really mean to say is, gold has non-monetary value (wire, anticorrosive plating, electronics, dental, jewelry) and inked-up slips of government paper do not.

Our dollar is actually higher under our President Bush, because of his pro-growth policies, than it was under Clinton's socialist policies. (For Mr. Bigmeat, I'm comparing the 90's lows with the lows this decade, for example, CHF1.11 then vs. CHF1.23 or so now).

I'll confess, I don't know what you're referring to. I'm just an armchair economist at best. However, I'm trying to come up with some goods that are cheaper than they were in the 90's (this is not a democrat/republican thing, the money system stays the same regardless of who's in office). Houses, cars, energy, college tuition, health care, all seem to cost more. I guess some things at Walmart might cost less, but that's just due to more things being made in China.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Right. ANd governments also abuse this power when they print money out of thin air, backed by nothing of value. You do understand, really, you do.

which has NOTHING to do with the intrinsic, or lack of, value of gold. You do understand THAT now dont you?

Besides, since you bring the issue up now, if a country, the USA, prints too much money, then the value of the currency simply goes down. It will occur because of the WORLD market. Simple.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

There's no such thing as intrinsic value, it depends on the item and the person. A fat well-fed american with a pantry full of food may place nearly no value on a barrel of wheat; someone starving in Ethopia may kill for it..

not true. That fat person will be ready to kill for it in no time also. But NEVER ready to kill for gold.

n all fairness, lots of gold advocates will say that gold has intrinsic value. What they really mean to say is, gold has non-monetary value (wire, anticorrosive plating, electronics, dental, jewelry) and inked-up slips of government paper do not..

which is why I stated "has not much value", those things can use other metals quite easily. And paper also has value, life without it wouldnt work too well.

I'll confess, I don't know what you're referring to. I'm just an armchair economist at best. However, I'm trying to come up with some goods that are cheaper than they were in the 90's (this is not a democrat/republican thing, the money system stays the same regardless of who's in office). Houses, cars, energy, college tuition, health care, all seem to cost more. I guess some things at Walmart might cost less, but that's just due to more things being made in China.

VCR's, cell phones, computers, tv's, microwaves, remote controls,

 

[rtwngAvngr]

which has NOTHING to do with the intrinsic, or lack of, value of gold. You do understand THAT now dont you?

Besides, since you bring the issue up now, if a country, the USA, prints too much money, then the value of the currency simply goes down. It will occur because of the WORLD market. Simple.

Gold is valuable because it's scarce. Paper money is valuable because the the government says so. Hence the value is based on tyranny, and the federal reserve it's free to abuse it's privelige "like a kid in a candy store".

 

[rtwngAvngr]

not true. That fat person will be ready to kill for it in no time also. But NEVER ready to kill for gold.

But with gold he could get tons of food. So for your scenario to be accurate, the fat person must also be retarded.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

LuvRPGirl either cannot get his mind around the concept of fiat currency, or is being purposefully obtuse.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

not true. That fat person will be ready to kill for it in no time also. But NEVER ready to kill for gold.

Okay, if you're saying that food outranks gold when it's scarce, sure I'll agree with that. But you can't seriously say that people throughout history don't go to great and ruthless lengths to obtain gold.

which is why I stated "has not much value", those things can use other metals quite easily. And paper also has value, life without it wouldnt work too well.

If they could use other metals easily...they would. Seeing as how most other metals are cheaper and all.

Paper has non-monetary value. Inked-up government paper has virtually none. It's only good use is money. If it's printed excessively, then it's no good as money, it's one and only real use. You can burn it, but it will be a dirty smoke and not produce much heat. You can wallpaper your bathroom with it, but that will be tedious and look tacky. You could wipe your butt with it, but the paper isn't absorbent or soft and it will tear your ass up something fierce. Maybe you could shred it and use it as blow-in insulation? But that would probably be a fire hazard, and not as good as fiberglass.

VCR's, cell phones, computers, tv's, microwaves, remote controls,

These are all electronic devices, which have gone down in price due to lightning-fast innovation. Their production has also been moved to China. So yes, they're cheaper, but you can't in any way give credit to our money system.

What used to happen was that prices would slowly drift downward for pretty much all goods. When production increases the supply of goods and the money supply barely moves, that's what you'd expect. We can pat ourselves on the back for having computers that cost $500, but really prices for manufactured goods should have dropped even lower if we had a sane money system. And meanwhile, other things (more labor-intensive or non-outsourceable-to-China type things) should have stayed the same price.

 

[JeffWartman]

not true. That fat person will be ready to kill for it in no time also. But NEVER ready to kill for gold.

which is why I stated "has not much value", those things can use other metals quite easily. And paper also has value, life without it wouldnt work too well.

You don't understand the meaning of what it means for something to have intrinsic value. Intrinsic value is value something has for it's own sake. In other words, the ONLY thing that is completely instrinsic is happiness.

Food CANNOT be instrinsic. What value does the food bring you? Nothing. Food is in an instrumental good. It's brings you something else that you find valuable. It's not the food you seek, it's the lack of being hungry that you need. Therefore, the food is instrumentally valuable in getting what you really want; a feeling of being full. The food has no value other than bringing hunger to an end, therefore food is NOT intrinsically valuable, it's instrumentally valuable.