Again with the Fiat Currency...

[rtwngAvngr]

HEre is a really good page on how our currency system is so f'ed up--minus the conspiracy theories and satanic imagery.

http://www.kwaves.com/fiat.htm
In a fiat money system, money is not backed by a physical commodity (i.e.: gold). Instead, the only thing that gives the money value is its relative scarcity and the faith placed in it by the people that use it. A good primer on the history of fiat money in the US can be found in a video provided by the Mises.org website.

In a fiat monetary system, there is no restrain on the amount of money that can be created. This allows unlimited credit creation. Initially, a rapid growth in the availability of credit is often mistaken for economic growth, as spending and business profits grow and frequently there is a rapid growth in equity prices. In the long run, however, the economy tends to suffer much more by the following contraction than it gained from the expansion in credit. This expansion in credit can be seen in the Debt/GDP ratio. We track the bubbles created by this expansion of debt at the inflation / deflation page.

In most cases, a fiat monetary system comes into existence as a result of excessive public debt. When the government is unable to repay all its debt in gold or silver, the temptation to remove physical backing rather than to default becomes irresistible. This was the case in 18th century France during the Law scheme, as well as in the 70s in the US, when Nixon removed the last link between the dollar and gold which is still in effect today.

Hyper-inflation is the terminal stage of any fiat currency. In hyper-inflation, money looses most of its value practically overnight. Hyper-inflation is often the result of increasing regular inflation to the point where all confidence in money is lost. In a fiat monetary system, the value of money is based on confidence, and once that confidence is gone, money irreversibly becomes worthless, regardless of its scarcity. Gold has replaced every fiat currency for the past 3000 years.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

from the same article,

Thomas Jefferson warned of the damage that would be caused if the people assigned control of the money supply to the banking sector, "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a money aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. This issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of the moneyed corporations which already dare to challenge our Government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country" Thomas Jefferson, 1791

 

[dilloduck]

from the same article,

Speaking truth to power again? Maybe Geraldo can help us out with an expose on how the fed works.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Speaking truth to power again? Maybe Geraldo can help us out with an expose on how the fed works.

Succumbing to fear of being unpopular again? Maybe I just need to smack you around a little.

 

[dilloduck]

Succumbing to fear of being unpopular again? Maybe I just need to smack you around a little.

You don't recognize support when you see it.

(Afraid of becoming unpopular again ? You mean i ever was? ):sausage:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You don't recognize support when you see it.

(Afraid of becoming unpopular again ? You mean i ever was? ):sausage:

WIll you go to prom with me?

 

[dilloduck]

WIll you go to prom with me?

Not if you wear that backless number that shows everything.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Most of the stuff I have read about NWO type stuff focuses on the fascination that many of the elites seem to have with freemasonry and world government under the UN or whatever. But I don't think that's the real point. I have a hunch that the real holy grail for them is a one-world currency, subject to their enlightened management of course, and empowering the UN is simply a means to that end. (And I tend to think that the fascination with masonic and occult symbols is a smokescreen to make any criticism of the one-worlders more sensationalistic and unbelievable to laypersons.) The problem with a nation-by-nation fiat currency is, people can always move assets into another currency, limiting your ability to rip people off.

Another problem is that you have constantly floating exchange rates, which causes all sorts of problems. Having one currency *is* actually a good thing, because it stops trade deficits from going on for decades, and helps long-term economic calculation (who wants to sign a contract to pay in US dollars, when the value of that dollar may go up or down relative to your nation's currency in 5 years? You may end up oweing more than you thought). We used to have a universal currency, namely gold. But that's not what they will propose of course. John Maynard Keynes already proposed a one-world currency a long time ago called the "Bancor".

I think there is a coming crisis with the dollar, not as bad as weimar Germany perhaps, but worse than what we had in the 70's. The dollar is the de facto international currency now, so that will cause all sorts of problems. This will drive up the price of gold to stratospheric levels, and somehow or another, gold will be scapegoated (sort of like blaming your oil guage for causing engine damage after it reads zero, if A comes before B then A must have caused B, right?). Of course when there is a crisis, politicians start itching to come up new government-empowering schemes to "solve" it. Previously untouchable ideas suddenly gain merit. Then we'll start hearing trial balloons being floated: "Look at the dangers of having all these different currencies. Look at the dangers of letting the gold speculators run wild. What we need is a UN comittee to look into this." When you hear this, hold on to your wallet (if it's contents are still worth anything).

 

[LuvRPgrl]

There will never be a one world money unit. Even Europe alone cant get one going.

What intrinsic value does gold have?
I think its shortcomings are none less than paper money.

I have traveled to many countries that wont take American dollars.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

There will never be a one world money unit. Even Europe alone cant get one going.

What intrinsic value does gold have?
I think its shortcomings are none less than paper money.

I have traveled to many countries that wont take American dollars.

scarcity and beauty. The scarcity is why it can be used. no infation.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Most of the stuff I have read about NWO type stuff focuses on the fascination that many of the elites seem to have with freemasonry and world government under the UN or whatever. But I don't think that's the real point. I have a hunch that the real holy grail for them is a one-world currency, subject to their enlightened management of course, and empowering the UN is simply a means to that end. (And I tend to think that the fascination with masonic and occult symbols is a smokescreen to make any criticism of the one-worlders more sensationalistic and unbelievable to laypersons.) The problem with a nation-by-nation fiat currency is, people can always move assets into another currency, limiting your ability to rip people off.

Another problem is that you have constantly floating exchange rates, which causes all sorts of problems. Having one currency *is* actually a good thing, because it stops trade deficits from going on for decades, and helps long-term economic calculation (who wants to sign a contract to pay in US dollars, when the value of that dollar may go up or down relative to your nation's currency in 5 years? You may end up oweing more than you thought). We used to have a universal currency, namely gold. But that's not what they will propose of course. John Maynard Keynes already proposed a one-world currency a long time ago called the "Bancor".

I think there is a coming crisis with the dollar, not as bad as weimar Germany perhaps, but worse than what we had in the 70's. The dollar is the de facto international currency now, so that will cause all sorts of problems. This will drive up the price of gold to stratospheric levels, and somehow or another, gold will be scapegoated (sort of like blaming your oil guage for causing engine damage after it reads zero, if A comes before B then A must have caused B, right?). Of course when there is a crisis, politicians start itching to come up new government-empowering schemes to "solve" it. Previously untouchable ideas suddenly gain merit. Then we'll start hearing trial balloons being floated: "Look at the dangers of having all these different currencies. Look at the dangers of letting the gold speculators run wild. What we need is a UN comittee to look into this." When you hear this, hold on to your wallet (if it's contents are still worth anything).

I propose a barter system or a dollar indexed against any number of resources, or a combination, gold, oil, wheat.

Im working on a quantum dollar that will solve all our problems.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

scarcity and beauty. The scarcity is why it can be used. no infation.

Then it has no intrinsic value, such as food.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Then it has no intrinsic value, such as food.

It is valuable due to scarcity. I would actually prefer to go to an absolute barter system.

 

[dmp]

I used to drive a Fiat 126.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

There will never be a one world money unit. Even Europe alone cant get one going.

What intrinsic value does gold have?
I think its shortcomings are none less than paper money.

I have traveled to many countries that wont take American dollars.

Why is counterfieting illegal?

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Then it has no intrinsic value, such as food.

Technically, nothing has intrinsic value, it's subjective.

However, throughout history, people keep coming back to gold...not because of government decree, but because it's the best universal commodity the market can come up with.

* The amount mined every year is a trickle compared to the total amount in storage, unlike say grains or industrial metals; so the supply is more or less fixed, and you don't have supply shocks;

* It can be divided and recombined;

* One unit is exactly the same as another, unlike diamonds;

* It doesn't decay;

* It's rare, so even a tiny amount buys a lot

This doesn't mean we should literally carry golden slugs in our pocket of course. A 1/20 oz. gold coin is still like $80 or so. Paper money and clad zinc coins are fine for acting as symbolic sybstitutes for minute amounts of gold, so you can buy sodas or cigarettes or whatever. It's when they are issued without any restraint on their backing that problems arise.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Technically, nothing has intrinsic value, it's subjective.

However, throughout history, people keep coming back to gold...not because of government decree, but because it's the best universal commodity the market can come up with.

* The amount mined every year is a trickle compared to the total amount in storage, unlike say grains or industrial metals; so the supply is more or less fixed, and you don't have supply shocks;

* It can be divided and recombined;

* One unit is exactly the same as another, unlike diamonds;

* It doesn't decay;

* It's rare, so even a tiny amount buys a lot

This doesn't mean we should literally carry golden slugs in our pocket of course. A 1/20 oz. gold coin is still like $80 or so. Paper money and clad zinc coins are fine for acting as symbolic sybstitutes for minute amounts of gold, so you can buy sodas or cigarettes or whatever. It's when they are issued without any restraint on their backing that problems arise.

Ha, food, shelter and water have intrinsic value. Gold is useless if you are on a deserted island, but water, food and shelter isnt.

Im not saying its wrong to use gold as a standard, just that it has not much value just like paper money.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

It is valuable due to scarcity. I would actually prefer to go to an absolute barter system.

There are many things that are scarce, and yet have no value.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Why is counterfieting illegal?

Hmmm, maybe because if anyone could print money, then everyone would, and it would be useless, cuz why would you trade something, like the candy in your store, for money, if you could just print the money yourself?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Hmmm, maybe because if anyone could print money, then everyone would, and it would be useless, cuz why would you trade something, like the candy in your store, for money, if you could just print the money yourself?

Right. ANd governments also abuse this power when they print money out of thin air, backed by nothing of value. You do understand, really, you do.