Afterlife?

[CynthiaZ]

One of the carrots that Evangelical Christians like to dangle is that if you accept Jesus Christ as your "personal" as opposed to "universal" Lord and Savior is that you will not die and you get a golden ticket to the Kingdom of Heaven where Jesus will reign with his Apostles and everyone will be happy, praising the Lord and enjoying the bounty of goodies that Jesus will provide. Or something like that...you see with different Christian sects you get different views of the Afterlife, the Jehovah Witnesses believe that only a few go to heaven while most believers will live forever on a paradise earth, other Christians believe at the Resurrection of the Dead all believers will be translated into heaven and then there is the Rapture where believers go to heaven and then come back to earth to defeat Satan. But is an afterlife all that good? It seems to be boring to live forever doing nothing but worshiping Jesus all day long, and a eternity of nothing but happiness would nothing but monotonous and if everything is set up to make you happy then wouldn't that sap you of free will. It seems to me that people would not have much of a say or choice in anything they do, they would practically be robots. So what makes heaven seem like such a reward? If you really think about it, it seems more like a hell to me. What good would it do to live forever but have no free will?

 

[Gracie]

Simple question for you. What makes you happy? (The warm fuzzies? The feeling of contentment and peace?)

 

[CynthiaZ]

Simple question for you. What makes you happy? (The warm fuzzies? The feeling of contentment and peace?)

Many things make me happy but it is not a state I like to continuously be in. Sometimes you just don't need warm fuzzies and peace all the time, sometimes some misery and conflict are good for a person. Only people in mental institutions on hardcore psychotropic drugs are in a constant state of contentment.

 

[Moonglow]

The Bible contains several philosophic dualities....and to add to the confusion is the contradictory nature of the Books written..One book will say no alcohol, while another claims it is a gift from God and it's okay as long as you are not a drunk and drink all day and night..
Christ stated that when death occurs all is black, yet on the cross he claims we go to Heaven ...

 

[jan]

The thing about the afterlife is that we won't fully understand it until we're there...and there isn't any coming back to talk about it.

I've heard so many descriptions...but nobody really knows for sure what it will be like. I think it's up to God.

 

[CynthiaZ]

The thing about the afterlife is that we won't fully understand it until we're there...and there isn't any coming back to talk about it.

I've heard so many descriptions...but nobody really knows for sure what it will be like. I think it's up to God.

Is there room for unhappiness in Heaven? You see no matter which way you look at it, if everything is set up to keep you constantly happy, you are operating like a machine and not a person. Any constant state negates free will.

 

[Meriweather]

One of the carrots that Evangelical Christians like to dangle is that if you accept Jesus Christ as your "personal" as opposed to "universal" Lord and Savior is that you will not die and you get a golden ticket to the Kingdom of Heaven where Jesus will reign with his Apostles and everyone will be happy, praising the Lord and enjoying the bounty of goodies that Jesus will provide. Or something like that...you see with different Christian sects you get different views of the Afterlife, the Jehovah Witnesses believe that only a few go to heaven while most believers will live forever on a paradise earth, other Christians believe at the Resurrection of the Dead all believers will be translated into heaven and then there is the Rapture where believers go to heaven and then come back to earth to defeat Satan. But is an afterlife all that good? It seems to be boring to live forever doing nothing but worshiping Jesus all day long, and a eternity of nothing but happiness would nothing but monotonous and if everything is set up to make you happy then wouldn't that sap you of free will. It seems to me that people would not have much of a say or choice in anything they do, they would practically be robots. So what makes heaven seem like such a reward? If you really think about it, it seems more like a hell to me. What good would it do to live forever but have no free will?

Other denominations teach that in the afterlife we will know God more fully and serve Him in a more heartfelt way. Another thought is that in knowing God and His ways more fully, we will see the good that comes from what we consider negative emotions here. I kind of compare that to sleep.

Being awake is very good, which does not mean its opposite (sleep) is bad. Sleep simply prepares us for our waking hours. Perhaps it is somewhat the same with some of our emotions, where frustration can be the preparation for motivating us to success (and therefore happiness). We may see more readily how everything works to our good.

 

[jan]

The thing about the afterlife is that we won't fully understand it until we're there...and there isn't any coming back to talk about it.

I've heard so many descriptions...but nobody really knows for sure what it will be like. I think it's up to God.

Is there room for unhappiness in Heaven? You see no matter which way you look at it, if everything is set up to keep you constantly happy, you are operating like a machine and not a person. Any constant state negates free will.

There's an old religious debate about free will verses pre-destination (ie, God knew us in the womb, He chose us first, etc.) There are references pertaining to both free will and predestination within the pages of the Bible. Is destiny real? Or perceived? Is free will real? Or perceived?

 

[CynthiaZ]

Is free will real?

Free will is just a matter of being aware of possibilities and utilizing agency to act on a possible outcome. The more aware you are, the more free you are. Those who do not utilize agency or have been rendered unaware have no free will, I think that describes what people in heaven would be like according to Christianity. They will be rendered unaware and so they will have no free will.

 

[featherlite]

“ but as it is written. What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—

This verse in Corinthians makes the most sense to me.

There are times of incredible enjoyment in the here and now...but every time someone tries to make their own idea of paradise here on earth, its an epic failure.
Leads me to believe "Heaven" is something we really cant imagine.

 

[HenryBHough]

Religions can fight over the damnedest things.

One proclaims "There'll be pie in the sky when you die!"

The other shouts "That's a lie, no pie in the sky! BUT - there'll be bread overhead when you're dead!"

And that's when the fight starts.

With multiple fatalities.

 

[CynthiaZ]

Leads me to believe "Heaven" is something we really cant imagine.

And if we use the ontological argument that would mean that heaven would also be impossible and therefore cannot exist.

 

[jan]

“ but as it is written. What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—

This verse in Corinthians makes the most sense to me.

There are times of incredible enjoyment in the here and now...but every time someone tries to make their own idea of paradise here on earth, its an epic failure.
Leads me to believe "Heaven" is something we really cant imagine.

We live in a finite world...it's hard to grasp the infinite. Also, we live in a 3 dimensional world...so it's hard to grasp what 11 dimensions may be like (string theory).

It seems to me that we can only understand things given the basis of what and how we know currently. Basically, with all we know, we know nothing.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
remission to the Everlasting only provides an avenue for a Spirits afterlife, not how long it will last.

.

 

[featherlite]

Leads me to believe "Heaven" is something we really cant imagine.

And if we use the ontological argument that would mean that heaven would also be impossible and therefore cannot exist.

I dont know what to tell you. I tried to reason that a God could exist. Then I tried to disbelieve in God ( using logic and reason) and it actually did work for awhile. I did my own thing, experimented in anyway I desired... It didn't end well .
I literally had fall down in every way possible and let God build me back up. I know how stupid that sounds, I use to almost groan in disgust when I heard people say things like that. Im not one of those people where good stuff just flows beautifully out of me. I just know God is real and it was through just opening & starting to read the Bible I came to that peace and understanding.

 

[HaShev]

The creation of man in the essence likeness(reflection) of that power of life (essence/spirit) we call G-d is then giving back that essence (spirit) to G-d(creation) at death (because it is not physical it never dies, it remains eternal that spirit/nature).

That's what King Solomon meant when he wrote, "The dust will return to the ground as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:17)


“Soul in the OT [Old Testament] is nepe_s-
Nepe_s comes from an original root meaning to breathe, and thus since death is without breath then the soul (breath) ceases after death. “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) Num. 6:6, 9:7, Lev. 21:11 – a dead body is a dead “nephesh”As scripture tells us, when you die the body goes back to the dust of the earth (Ecc 3:20) and the soul (breath) or spirit (nature of your being) also dissipates into the energy surrounding this, our layer of existence, the earth(Ecc 12:7, Psalms 22:29 & 104:29-30, Ezekiel 18:4 & 20, Joshua 10:28-39)Our Spirit (which is an essence of our being & not an energy) shouldn't be portrayed as an energy, for even if it was described as such it could not escape from this earth or have any senses or conciousness without a processor for it, which is what our brain is. We were formed from processions, layer after layer of micro realms to have concious energy, by placing the soul into the body, which acts as the processor, otherwise there would be no "Life" to experience.
Example: You send a signal from computer to computer with a visual program that functions, but by itself that energy full of info has no form of concept, but once it’s received and processed at the end user, it then becomes a formed and visible program. Without the processor it’s just energy in micro orders without macro end vision of form.Stilldoubt what I say?Try blind folding yourself, placing sound proof ear phones on, and numbing your fingers. What do you feel, hear or see (thus sense)? Nothing! Does that energy you call soul still see, hear, touch, and feel?Without your vessel acting as the processor you have no sense that allow you to feel, hear, see and sense life.
scripture warns us of "PROMISING" people a false "Soul Flying Life"(Ezekiel 13:20-22)
In Judaism death was despised and seen as un natural.The only hope for a dying creation was a resurrection, a release from the death condition & remaining alive in this only grace of Life. Resurrection was to be a true reward for for those who gave their lives freely to G0D and towards society so they could 'return' ('HaShev') to see what their works achieved in creating the world to come. In other words it was seen as an ideal way to bring justice for those who have sacrificed their lives to better Life for the whole.The afterlife teachings
are leading people away from the creators creation by coveting and worshiping and cherishing death rather then seeing the place to come on earth is merely a transformation not another realm.
The light at the end of the Tunnel & hellucination of relatives seen as after life is actually occuring from the lack of oxygen to the brain. This has been simulated in a lab like in DR Michael Persinger's research, where everyone stimulated on the side portion of the brain had the same exact experience as if they were dying, & they saw the same tunnel of light, higher presence, feeling of floating & detachment, and imagery almost identical to each other. This deception of Bright Light deceives us into thinking there is something after death that in reality doesn't exist and was part of Cult beliefs. Therefore we end up treating death as life, even though scripture warns us of "PROMISING" people a false "Soul Flying Life"(Ezekiel 13:20-22.

 

[jan]

So then HaShev...how would you explain Jesus appearing to his disciples after his cruxifixion? Or, are we not considering the New Testament in this description of (lack of ) life after death?

1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection of the Dead
12Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.…
Cross References
1 Corinthians 15:12
But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?1 Corinthians 15:14
And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.


So...if there is no resurrection...that pretty much wipes out the entire Christian faith here.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The thing about the afterlife is that we won't fully understand it until we're there...and there isn't any coming back to talk about it.

I've heard so many descriptions...but nobody really knows for sure what it will be like. I think it's up to God.

Is there room for unhappiness in Heaven? You see no matter which way you look at it, if everything is set up to keep you constantly happy, you are operating like a machine and not a person. Any constant state negates free will.

indeed

some people simply are not happy unless they something to piss and moan about

 

[CynthiaZ]

The thing about the afterlife is that we won't fully understand it until we're there...and there isn't any coming back to talk about it.

I've heard so many descriptions...but nobody really knows for sure what it will be like. I think it's up to God.

Is there room for unhappiness in Heaven? You see no matter which way you look at it, if everything is set up to keep you constantly happy, you are operating like a machine and not a person. Any constant state negates free will.

indeed

some people simply are not happy unless they something to piss and moan about

So if you were God what would hell be like for those people? How would you punish them?

 

[Tuatara]

I find infinite afterlife scarier than death. Could you imagine how bored you'd be after several trillion years and then someone mentions this is less than a blink of an eye compared to how long this will go on.