after this would you trust the RNC to reform health care?

[Cecilie1200]

Basically....Party before Country

You really need to stop thinking like that.

 

[Big Fitz]

The GOP does not want anything to do with HC reform. They are confident that a NO! concerning health care will take Obama down.

Basically....Party before Country

This is why all political parties should be banned, and subject to anti-racketeering laws. Purveyors of this philosophy piss me off.

 

[cawacko]

The GOP does not want anything to do with HC reform. They are confident that a NO! concerning health care will take Obama down.

Basically....Party before Country

What do you think the two parties exist to do? They exist to win elections. That's their goal. So they do what they feel is in their best interest to gain voter approval. Pretty obvious game the Republicans and Democrats play.

 

[Zander]

The GOP does not want anything to do with HC reform. They are confident that a NO! concerning health care will take Obama down.

Basically....Party before Country

Bullshit. They want a measured, incremental approach using free market based solutions and have put forward numerous proposals and bills to the end. Only far left loony liberals want a complete take over of 1/6th of the US economy because a tiny percentage of people got screwed by the "evil" insurance companies. Liberals got greedy. Now they can eat crow.

PS - don't blame Reps (or GW Bush!!!) for not passing Obamacare, that dog won't hunt. Those dummies had a year and did squat. Obama failed, all on his own.

 

[DiveCon]

The GOP does not want anything to do with HC reform. They are confident that a NO! concerning health care will take Obama down.

Basically....Party before Country

gee, and what did the dems do from 2001 till 2007?
Hmmmm????



and this isn't excusing the bullshit moves the GOP is doing and has done

 

[cawacko]

The GOP does not want anything to do with HC reform. They are confident that a NO! concerning health care will take Obama down.

Basically....Party before Country

What's your take on Obama's position of basically pass anything to let me sign something that shows we did healtcare reform regardless of how good or bad it may be to bolster his re-election chances?

 

[GR3Y077]

All I know is health care in the US is crazily overpriced and in the long run, it makes sense to add things like the public option - economically, and socially. Yeah, we Americans hate to compare ourselves to other countries, but no other country with money has the kind of costs we have, for a reason. E.g. if our mother died because we couldn't afford it that would build heavy resentment and anti-govenment/anti-establishment feeling. If there was no reform for a long time, really, it risks social revolution. The current talk of reforms are about avoiding, helping the general populace.

 

[Big Fitz]

Have you ever considered WHY it is overpriced?

No no... I'm not speaking of the typical talking points such as 'greed' and 'evil' labels that rightly or wrongly get tossed around. I'm talking the fundamental mechanics that make things cost what they do?

The sad thing is, I doubt most people, even on this board have ever started breaking down as to why the price of Aspirin in a hospital costs 12 bucks a pill. Further, it is doubtful that many have considered the extraneous costs to the medical field or pharmaceutical industry are considered in the process.

Combine to this then you can start looking at actual dollar value of each step and you can quickly see how fast the costs increase because of unnecessary additional costs built into the system from the price of ingredients on the open market, to manufacturing and shipping costs, combined with that the cost of sales and marketing, lawyers to defend against statistically predicted lawsuits, executives and lobbyists to protect the industry's viability and keep governmental costs to a minimum, if possible... administrators to track all the costs and direction of the pharmaceutical firm as well as the scientists to support developing new drugs for the future. And of course then you have the insurers as well to protect these companies if something bad happens and they get sued. It's not just lawyers on staff, you know.

Then you get to the simple hospital costs as well.

See, the costs that factor into that one simple pill, that you can get for pennies over the counter at your local drug store, have lots of hurdles to cross over till it reaches your headache or whatever.

It would behoove us as a nation to start looking at the mechanics of the problem instead of just blaming it on ethical lapses and failings of mankind. Like a machine that isn't working properly, we don't do holistic auto mechanics (regardless of the commercials otherwise), we open it up, find what's broken and fix it.

Neither party has truely done this that I've seen, but the GOP is a little closer with proposing things like tort reform, and opening up more insurance company competition. These aspects lower the total aggregate costs to care, but are only small bites in the overall wellness of the issue. You can't just say, spend more and cover more. That just aggravates what is already the problem because it's just that type of thinking that got us here.

This is the different approach being ignored. This is why national health care is deadly to this nation for it is nothing more than more of the same of what got us here since Medicare/Medicaid and the New Deal: Entitlement handouts for no cost effectiveness.

Time to get the wasters out of the program and help what works best: Capitalism.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The Democrats blew it because of their overwhelming Socialist tendencies. They tried to pass a massive indecipherable boondoggle that no one was going to read or possibly understand. This was evident with Coakley up in Massachusetts. She never could give a straight or informed answer to questions about the Democrat health care debacle. She obviously didn't read the four thousand page nightmare. She couldn't Even grasp the basics of the boondoggle. I suspect this is the case with most Democrats. They weren't gonna read it before voting on it and they definitely weren't gonna understand it.

The Democrats' boondoggle failed because many Democrats knew it was a nightmare. Can't blame the Republicans on this one. They have been locked out of all meetings on all Legislation in recent months. They do need to go back to the drawing board just as Scott Brown advised. Just take each health care issue and address them with small pieces of individual Legislation. They should have approached it that way from the beginning. Why pass something that no one is going to read or understand? Pelosi & Reid really did blow it.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I see Midcan Vacated the thread after I showed him his assumptions about republicans not having health care plans was wrong.

Not even a "oh sorry my bad" or anything

 

[uscitizen]

Snickerdoodles are the most patriotic thing since the Civil War.

And fudge? I'm not a big chocolate fan, but I do make some of the most sinful, addictive fudge on Earth.

I just went on a family visit trip and one of my sisters made me the most delicious hard fudge with black walnuts in it.

Yummy, yummy.

 

[uscitizen]

I see Midcan Vacated the thread after I showed him his assumptions about republicans not having health care plans was wrong.

Not even a "oh sorry my bad" or anything

When did the republicans health care plan come out and why?

 

[mudwhistle]

The Democrats blew it because of their overwhelming Socialist tendencies. They tried to pass a massive indecipherable boondoggle that no one was going to read or possibly understand. This was evident with Coakley up in Massachusetts. She never could give a straight or informed answer to questions about the Democrat health care debacle. She obviously didn't read the four thousand page nightmare. She couldn't Even grasp the basics of the boondoggle. I suspect this is the case with most Democrats. They weren't gonna read it before voting on it and they definitely weren't gonna understand it.

The Democrats' boondoggle failed because many Democrats knew it was a nightmare. Can't blame the Republicans on this one. They have been locked out of all meetings on all Legislation in recent months. They do need to go back to the drawing board just as Scott Brown advised. Just take each health care issue and address them with small pieces of individual Legislation. They should have approached it that way from the beginning. Why pass something that no one is going to read or understand? Pelosi & Reid really did blow it.

The Democrats haven't stopped. They've just gone clandestine. They're still working to push health care down our throats but the next time whe won't know about it till it's already in place. That is if they're able to get away with it.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I see Midcan Vacated the thread after I showed him his assumptions about republicans not having health care plans was wrong.

Not even a "oh sorry my bad" or anything

When did the republicans health care plan come out and why?

errr around the same time as the democrats health plan and for the same reason as the democrats, reform is needed.

 

[uscitizen]

I see Midcan Vacated the thread after I showed him his assumptions about republicans not having health care plans was wrong.

Not even a "oh sorry my bad" or anything

When did the republicans health care plan come out and why?

errr around the same time as the democrats health plan and for the same reason as the democrats, reform is needed.

And it was not needed when the Republicans controlled everything?

imho The republicans only came out with a "plan" for political reasons, not becuase it was needed.
But then everyone has an opinion.

 

[DiveCon]

When did the republicans health care plan come out and why?

errr around the same time as the democrats health plan and for the same reason as the democrats, reform is needed.

And it was not needed when the Republicans controlled everything?

imho The republicans only came out with a "plan" for political reasons, not becuase it was needed.
But then everyone has an opinion.

the GOP never had super majorities

so that "control" was fleeting at best

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

When did the republicans health care plan come out and why?

errr around the same time as the democrats health plan and for the same reason as the democrats, reform is needed.

And it was not needed when the Republicans controlled everything?

imho The republicans only came out with a "plan" for political reasons, not becuase it was needed.
But then everyone has an opinion.

The republicans never had total control like the democrats do now, but thats not an excuse.

The democrats, using your logic, also came out with a "plan" for political reasons. If they were doing it because it was needed why didn't they at least propose legislation when they took control of congress in 2006?

 

[uscitizen]

errr around the same time as the democrats health plan and for the same reason as the democrats, reform is needed.

And it was not needed when the Republicans controlled everything?

imho The republicans only came out with a "plan" for political reasons, not becuase it was needed.
But then everyone has an opinion.

The republicans never had total control like the democrats do now, but thats not an excuse.

The democrats, using your logic, also came out with a "plan" for political reasons. If they were doing it because it was needed why didn't they at least propose legislation when they took control of congress in 2006?

Now that I cannot argue with. But then I think the demoncrats are sucky as well as the repugnatcans.

 

[DiveCon]

And it was not needed when the Republicans controlled everything?

imho The republicans only came out with a "plan" for political reasons, not becuase it was needed.
But then everyone has an opinion.

The republicans never had total control like the democrats do now, but thats not an excuse.

The democrats, using your logic, also came out with a "plan" for political reasons. If they were doing it because it was needed why didn't they at least propose legislation when they took control of congress in 2006?

Now that I cannot argue with. But then I think the demoncrats are sucky as well as the repugnatcans.

now THATS something i think most of us can agree on
BOTH major parties SUCK

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

And it was not needed when the Republicans controlled everything?

imho The republicans only came out with a "plan" for political reasons, not becuase it was needed.
But then everyone has an opinion.

The republicans never had total control like the democrats do now, but thats not an excuse.

The democrats, using your logic, also came out with a "plan" for political reasons. If they were doing it because it was needed why didn't they at least propose legislation when they took control of congress in 2006?

Now that I cannot argue with. But then I think the demoncrats are sucky as well as the repugnatcans.

ANd thats something we can agree on