After The Public Schools Collapse--What Then?

[SweetSue92]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

 

[fncceo]

Good parents will always find a way to educate their children.

It seems the fastest growing sector in homeschooling is in the Hispanic community.

Hispanic students now make up more than a quarter of the U.S. homeschooling population — a figure of 26 percent that’s up from 16 percent in 2012 and 5.3 percent back in 2003, according to data from the National Household Education Surveys Program (NHES).

The New Face of U.S. Homeschooling Is Hispanic

 

[Care4all]

teachers / union workers have been bashed and demeaned by right wingers for quite a while now.... who the heck would want their low paying job, with that kind of abuse and belittling?

 

[SweetSue92]

Good parents will always find a way to educate their children.

It seems the fastest growing sector in homeschooling is in the Hispanic community.

Hispanic students now make up more than a quarter of the U.S. homeschooling population — a figure of 26 percent that’s up from 16 percent in 2012 and 5.3 percent back in 2003, according to data from the National Household Education Surveys Program (NHES).

The New Face of U.S. Homeschooling Is Hispanic

Of course, GOOD parents will. Many parents are not good parents. Many parents are single parents and need to be at work during the day. Many parents need to work, period, because it's harder to make a single income work even if the parents are married.

I'm saying no public schools. What do we do with all those children who don't have good parents?

 

[gipper]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

 

[SweetSue92]

teachers / union workers have been bashed and demeaned by right wingers for quite a while now.... who the heck would want their low paying job, with that kind of abuse and belittling?

I have little use for the unions for political reasons and do not belong to mine. But you are correct in that teaching is of so little value that almost no college students want to go into it. The very best, professional teachers I work with--and I work in one of the top districts in my state--are not allowing their children to go into it. Or I should say, they won't pay for their children's education if they do.

I mean, that's where we are.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

Disband the Federal Department of Education

Outlaw the Teachers union

 

[SweetSue92]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

 

[SweetSue92]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

Disband the Federal Department of Education

Outlaw the Teachers union

Blah blah blah

Talking points. And I'm a conservative, and I don't disagree. I don't even belong to my union, for starters.

How is that going to get more teachers in the classroom RIGHT NOW? Or in five years, or in ten?

Really....just talking points.

 

[gipper]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

I don’t have solutions other than imposing discipline. Without discipline in the classroom, who would want to be a teacher?

 

[SweetSue92]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

I don’t have solutions other than imposing discipline. Without discipline in the classroom, who would want to be a teacher?

But you're a libertarian, and the parents don't want that, you realize. Parents do not want government teachers to discipline THEIR children (just maybe the rest of the children in the class).

So now what? Does the gov't servant override the will of the taxpaying parent?

You see why people are leaving teaching and not going into it?

 

[gipper]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

I don’t have solutions other than imposing discipline. Without discipline in the classroom, who would want to be a teacher?

But you're a libertarian, and the parents don't want that, you realize. Parents do not want government teachers to discipline THEIR children (just maybe the rest of the children in the class).

So now what? Does the gov't servant override the will of the taxpaying parent?

You see why people are leaving teaching and not going into it?

Make simple rules and impose them. Expelled kids who break the rules. This was done decades ago, when the system functioned well.

 

[fncceo]

Good parents will always find a way to educate their children.

It seems the fastest growing sector in homeschooling is in the Hispanic community.

Hispanic students now make up more than a quarter of the U.S. homeschooling population — a figure of 26 percent that’s up from 16 percent in 2012 and 5.3 percent back in 2003, according to data from the National Household Education Surveys Program (NHES).

The New Face of U.S. Homeschooling Is Hispanic

Of course, GOOD parents will. Many parents are not good parents. Many parents are single parents and need to be at work during the day. Many parents need to work, period, because it's harder to make a single income work even if the parents are married.

I'm saying no public schools. What do we do with all those children who don't have good parents?

I'm not saying it will come to this. In America, very few prognostications of disaster actually come to pass. We are, if anything, a practical and moderate people. Since public schools in the US are locally funded, the schools most at risk are those in large cities, where the cost of providing basic education is much higher.

However, in a worse case scenario, where big cities public school systems collapse, it could lead to a growing class gap in the US, something we've never experienced to any degree as wide as England or Europe.

However, in this case, the gap isn't based so much on ethnicity or heritage, but on parental responsibility. A class structure based on personal responsibility could be an eminently desirable outcome.

 

[SweetSue92]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

I don’t have solutions other than imposing discipline. Without discipline in the classroom, who would want to be a teacher?

But you're a libertarian, and the parents don't want that, you realize. Parents do not want government teachers to discipline THEIR children (just maybe the rest of the children in the class).

So now what? Does the gov't servant override the will of the taxpaying parent?

You see why people are leaving teaching and not going into it?

Make simple rules and impose them. Expelled kids who break the rules. This was done decades ago, when the system functioned well.

It's too simplistic to just say "go back to the way it was". Sometimes you can; many times you cannot. For example, you cannot expel any students who have labels of special education or disability--or in any case, it's very difficult to do so. Hence Nikolas Cruz.

 

[gipper]

Good parents will always find a way to educate their children.

It seems the fastest growing sector in homeschooling is in the Hispanic community.

Hispanic students now make up more than a quarter of the U.S. homeschooling population — a figure of 26 percent that’s up from 16 percent in 2012 and 5.3 percent back in 2003, according to data from the National Household Education Surveys Program (NHES).

The New Face of U.S. Homeschooling Is Hispanic

Of course, GOOD parents will. Many parents are not good parents. Many parents are single parents and need to be at work during the day. Many parents need to work, period, because it's harder to make a single income work even if the parents are married.

I'm saying no public schools. What do we do with all those children who don't have good parents?

I'm not saying it will come to this. In America, very few prognostications of disaster actually come to pass. We are, if anything, a practical and moderate people. Since public schools in the US are locally funded, the schools most at risk are those in large cities, where the cost of providing basic education is much higher.

However, in a worse case scenario, where big cities public school systems collapse, it could lead to a growing class gap in the US, something we've never experienced to any degree as wide as England or Europe.

However, in this case, the gap isn't based so much on ethnicity or heritage, but on parental responsibility. A class structure based on personal responsibility could be an eminently desirable outcome.

We are already there. The class gap already exists. Few students in poor inner city districts get a decent education. This has been true for decades.

 

[SweetSue92]

Good parents will always find a way to educate their children.

It seems the fastest growing sector in homeschooling is in the Hispanic community.

Hispanic students now make up more than a quarter of the U.S. homeschooling population — a figure of 26 percent that’s up from 16 percent in 2012 and 5.3 percent back in 2003, according to data from the National Household Education Surveys Program (NHES).

The New Face of U.S. Homeschooling Is Hispanic

Of course, GOOD parents will. Many parents are not good parents. Many parents are single parents and need to be at work during the day. Many parents need to work, period, because it's harder to make a single income work even if the parents are married.

I'm saying no public schools. What do we do with all those children who don't have good parents?

I'm not saying it will come to this. In America, very few prognostications of disaster actually come to pass. We are, if anything, a practical and moderate people. Since public schools in the US are locally funded, the schools most at risk are those in large cities, where the cost of providing basic education is much higher.

However, in a worse case scenario, where big cities public school systems collapse, it could lead to a growing class gap in the US, something we've never experienced to any degree as wide as England or Europe.

However, in this case, the gap isn't based so much on ethnicity or heritage, but on parental responsibility. A class structure based on personal responsibility could be an eminently desirable outcome.

When your suggestion is homeschooling, that's not really a practical suggestion for fixing the ills of the public education system. Of course it only takes care of motivated, invested parents--not a huge number who are not. That's first.

Second, the disaster is already upon us. We don't have enough teachers. There are not enough teachers coming up. So we fill classrooms with rotating subs, who will just make the system fail harder and faster. Not because subs are intrinsically horrible but they are not permanent, certified teachers and are often way out of their content area--if they have a content area.

Or we combine classes, or cancel classes--this is just not in the inner city, either.

 

[fncceo]

We're well into the "vote of no confidence" regarding America's schools. This has led to a raging teacher shortage, which is perpetuating the problem and will continue to do so into the future. FWIW, a family member of mine, a PhD in education for years and years--and a huge liberal--saw this coming more than ten years ago. I had no idea how prescient she was. I do now.

Short-sighted conservatives cheer this.

Okay. What takes its place? I'm not an advocate for gov't running the institutions, and am dead set on gov't not taking over healthcare, for example. But now that society has been accustomed to public education for so many generations--what now, when there are not enough adults to fill the classrooms and the few you can scrape together are under-educated and under-qualified?

(For a taste of this problem, see this article, where the "answer to the teacher shortage" is to let teacher's aides teach the classes. Mostly special ed children. Could One Answer To Teacher Shortage Be Right Under Our Nose?)

Fellow conservatives: come with solutions, not just rants on how awful the "indoctrination centers" are. We've heard it all. Put some original thought into this--or at least some thought.

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

I don’t have solutions other than imposing discipline. Without discipline in the classroom, who would want to be a teacher?

But you're a libertarian, and the parents don't want that, you realize. Parents do not want government teachers to discipline THEIR children (just maybe the rest of the children in the class).

So now what? Does the gov't servant override the will of the taxpaying parent?

You see why people are leaving teaching and not going into it?

Make simple rules and impose them. Expelled kids who break the rules. This was done decades ago, when the system functioned well.

Rates of high school graduation have been rising steadily in the post war era. At the turn of the last century, only 7% of Americans were high school graduates. On the cusp of World War II, only half of Americans had a high school diploma.
By, the '60s, that rate was up to 75% and the most recent DOE figures shows high school graduation rates at an all-time-high of almost 85%.

 

[gipper]

The government schools in poor and minority areas collapsed long ago. It isn’t all that good in many other areas. Lack of discipline is one of the biggest problems.

Solutions? It certainly isn’t more money.

Okay, that's just whining.

Now they're going to collapse all over because we don't have teachers to fill the classrooms. So we will get under-educated, under-credentialed adults to do it, who will fold even faster than current teachers are folding. So the problems will continue apace.

Then what?

Solutions. What you got? Or was the idea just to cut down and destroy and then stand on the rubble waving the flag of victory?

I don’t have solutions other than imposing discipline. Without discipline in the classroom, who would want to be a teacher?

But you're a libertarian, and the parents don't want that, you realize. Parents do not want government teachers to discipline THEIR children (just maybe the rest of the children in the class).

So now what? Does the gov't servant override the will of the taxpaying parent?

You see why people are leaving teaching and not going into it?

Make simple rules and impose them. Expelled kids who break the rules. This was done decades ago, when the system functioned well.

It's too simplistic to just say "go back to the way it was". Sometimes you can; many times you cannot. For example, you cannot expel any students who have labels of special education or disability--or in any case, it's very difficult to do so. Hence Nikolas Cruz.

What worked in the past, likely works today. It would be much better than what we have today.

 

[SweetSue92]

Good parents will always find a way to educate their children.

It seems the fastest growing sector in homeschooling is in the Hispanic community.

Hispanic students now make up more than a quarter of the U.S. homeschooling population — a figure of 26 percent that’s up from 16 percent in 2012 and 5.3 percent back in 2003, according to data from the National Household Education Surveys Program (NHES).

The New Face of U.S. Homeschooling Is Hispanic

Of course, GOOD parents will. Many parents are not good parents. Many parents are single parents and need to be at work during the day. Many parents need to work, period, because it's harder to make a single income work even if the parents are married.

I'm saying no public schools. What do we do with all those children who don't have good parents?

I'm not saying it will come to this. In America, very few prognostications of disaster actually come to pass. We are, if anything, a practical and moderate people. Since public schools in the US are locally funded, the schools most at risk are those in large cities, where the cost of providing basic education is much higher.

However, in a worse case scenario, where big cities public school systems collapse, it could lead to a growing class gap in the US, something we've never experienced to any degree as wide as England or Europe.

However, in this case, the gap isn't based so much on ethnicity or heritage, but on parental responsibility. A class structure based on personal responsibility could be an eminently desirable outcome.

We are already there. The class gap already exists. Few students in poor inner city districts get a decent education. This has been true for decades.

Of course it is. And without a doubt, the single most impactful factor to a child's education--outside of supportive parents--are good teachers. Not books, not facilities, not even the much-touted technology. Teachers.

We don't have them. We're not getting them. Not in the inner cities, not seemingly anywhere.

 

[fncceo]

When your suggestion is homeschooling, that's not really a practical suggestion for fixing the ills of the public education

I wasn't suggesting how to fix public school education. My child didn't go to public school, secondary or post-secondary. I don't have a stake in the perpetuation of the public school system personally. I'm merely suggesting that if it does collapse, it won't as severely effect children of responsible parents.