Afrocentrism: Were the ancient Egyptians black?

[uptownlivin90]

Hundreds of years from now there will be a negro on the internet claiming the bloods and crips were the great armys of America

Being that I'm a negro who happens to be in the actual military I say this conviction, there will also be a white man on the internet claiming that Martin Luther King was white.

 

[code1211]

Hundreds of years from now there will be a negro on the internet claiming the bloods and crips were the great armys of America

Being that I'm a negro who happens to be in the actual military I say this conviction, there will also be a white man on the internet claiming that Martin Luther King was white.

That claim may be made, but it will probably not be widely held. In the same way that every champion of a cause is tied to that cause, so will he be inextricably tied to the advancement of rights of Blacks in a White Society that was actively suppressing those rights.

His labor, life, fight and death are all caused by or results of his drive to "overcome".

He was the American Ghandi.

 

[Tank]

Have you read Ghandi's opinion of black folks?

Check it out:

gandhi was racist - Google Search

 

[uptownlivin90]

Have you read Ghandi's opinion of black folks?

Check it out:

gandhi was racist - Google Search

So what's your opinion of Indians?

 

[code1211]

Have you read Ghandi's opinion of black folks?

Check it out:

gandhi was racist - Google Search

That's too bad. The irony is that he believed in the caste system and therefore looked down upon Blacks, but was still able to peacefully displace the Lilly white Brits from India.

Some things are pretty complex. This is apparently one of them.

If he was absolutely devoted to the Caste System, placing the White British at the pinnacle is prefectly logical. Yet he rejected this. By saying that he was devoted to the Caste System and therefore had to be anti Black ignors the obvious departure from this assumption as he defied the caste system to overthrow the Brits.

If his devotion to the caste system was absolute, that supports the anti black charge. His devotion to the Caste System, though, could not have been absolute or he could not have opposed the Brits.

A conundrum.

 

[defyinwitelies]

Ancient Egyptian art work depicts a multiracial society with pictures of black, mulatto, and light skinned individuals. Certainly it was a very wealthy society which, like America, probably attracted lots of people from far and wide who wanted to live there for the opportunities it provided. Undoubtedly, there would have been architects, supervisors, engineers and other skilled personnel to design and organize the complex task of erecting the pyramids. Having watched some Youtube videos about the building of the pyramids, its clear this was an enourmous logistical, organizational, and architectural challenge. There would also have been even more individuals involved in the manual labor of dragging the stone, digging and transporting sand etc.

I think most scholars would agree that the construction of the pyramids was a multiracial effort, but my guess is that the creative and thinking part of the process was done mainly by individuals who were not black. My belief is based upon knowing that the average iq of native sub saharan africans is around 75, the same as it must have been at the time the pyramids were built given that evolution could not have changed intelligence much in such a short time span. Additionally, there is no archeological or historical evidence that africans living south of the Sahara ever accomplished a feat anywhere near this magnitude. If they were capable of the complex organizing and innovation required for the pyramids, then why up until the time of european colonization in the 1800s did sub saharan africans primarily live in straw huts and sustain themselves largely through hunting and gathering? In any state on the planet today where blacks comprise a significant portion of the population, they always dominate the lowest strata of the socioeconomic pyramid, and I don't think it was any different in ancient Egypt. There just simply isnt any evidence suggesting that blacks as a people would have had the ability to design and manage the construction of the pyramids.

Do you derive all your insightful opinions on Ancient Egypt from 'Having watched some Youtube videos'? If so, no wonder. Maybe you should think instead of reading some sholarly articles like this one by Christopher Ehret :"Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture."Take your time.

"Ancient Egyptian civilization was, in ways and to an extent usually not recognized, fundamentally African. The evidence of both language and culture reveals these African roots.

The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt. The ancient Egyptian language belonged to the Afrasian family (also called Afroasiatic or, formerly, Hamito-Semitic). The speakers of the earliest Afrasian languages, according to recent studies, were a set of peoples whose lands between 15,000 and 13,000 B.C. stretched from Nubia in the west to far northern Somalia in the east. They supported themselves by gathering wild grains. The first elements of Egyptian culture were laid down two thousand years later, between 12,000 and 10,000 B.C., when some of these Afrasian communities expanded northward into Egypt, bringing with them a language directly ancestral to ancient Egyptian. They also introduced to Egypt the idea of using wild grains as food.

A new religion came with them as well. Its central tenet explains the often localized origins of later Egyptian gods: the earliest Afrasians were, properly speaking, neither monotheistic nor polytheistic. Instead, each local community, comprising a clan or a group of related clans, had its own distinct deity and centered its religious observances on that deity. This belief system persists today among several Afrasian peoples of far southwest Ethiopia. And as Biblical scholars have shown, Yahweh, god of the ancient Hebrews, an Afrasian people of the Semitic group, was originally also such a deity. The connection of many of Egypt's predynastic gods to particular localities is surely a modified version of this early Afrasian belief. Political unification in the late fourth millennium brought the Egyptian deities together in a new polytheistic system. But their local origins remain amply apparent in the records that have come down to us.

During the long era between about 10,000 and 6000 B.C., new kinds of southern influences diffused into Egypt. During these millennia, the Sahara had a wetter climate than it has today, with grassland or steppes in many areas that are now almost absolute desert. New wild animals, most notably the cow, spread widely in the eastern Sahara in this period.

One of the exciting archeological events of the past twenty years was the discovery that the peoples of the steppes and grasslands to the immediate south of Egypt domesticated these cattle, as early as 9000 to 8000 B.C. The societies involved in this momentous development included Afrasians and neighboring peoples whose languages belonged to a second major African language family, Nilo-Saharan (Wendorf, Schild, Close 1984; Wendorf, et al. 1982). The earliest domestic cattle came to Egypt apparently from these southern neighbors, probably before 6000 B.C., not, as we used to think, from the Middle East.

One major technological advance, pottery-making, was also initiated as early as 9000 B.C. by the Nilo-Saharans and Afrasians who lived to the south of Egypt. Soon thereafter, pots spread to Egyptian sites, almost 2,000 years before the first pottery was made in the Middle East.

Very late in the same span of time, the cultivating of crops began in Egypt. Since most of Egypt belonged then to the Mediterranean climatic zone, many of the new food plants came from areas of similar climate in the Middle East. Two domestic animals of Middle Eastern origin, the sheep and the goat, also entered northeastern Africa from the north during this era.

But several notable early Egyptian crops came from Sudanic agriculture, independently invented between 7500 and 6000 B.C. by the Nilo-Saharan peoples (Ehret 1993:104-125). One such cultivated crop was the edible gourd. The botanical evidence is confirmed in this case by linguistics: Egyptian bdt, or "bed of gourds" (Late Egyptian bdt, "gourd; cucumber"), is a borrowing of the Nilo-Saharan word *bud, "edible gourd." Other early Egyptian crops of Sudanic origin included watermelons and castor beans. (To learn more on how historians use linguistic evidence, see note at end of this article.)

Between about 5000 and 3000 B.C. a new era of southern cultural influences took shape. Increasing aridity pushed more of the human population of the eastern Sahara into areas with good access to the waters of the Nile, and along the Nile the bottomlands were for the first time cleared and farmed. The Egyptian stretches of the river came to form the northern edge of a newly emergent Middle Nile Culture Area, which extended far south up the river, well into the middle of modern-day Sudan. Peoples speaking languages of the Eastern Sahelian branch of the Nilo-Saharan family inhabited the heartland of this region.

From the Middle Nile, Egypt gained new items of livelihood between 5000 and 3000 B.C. One of these was a kind of cattle pen: its Egyptian name, s3 (earlier *sr), can be derived from the Eastern Sahelian term *sar. Egyptian pg3, "bowl," (presumably from earlier pgr), a borrowing of Nilo-Saharan *poKur, "wooden bowl or trough," reveals still another adoption in material culture that most probably belongs to this era.

One key feature of classical Egyptian political culture, usually assumed to have begun in Egypt, also shows strong links to the southern influences of this period. We refer here to a particular kind of sacral chiefship that entailed, in its earliest versions, the sending of servants into the afterlife along with the deceased chief. The deep roots and wide occurrence of this custom among peoples who spoke Eastern Sahelian languages strongly imply that sacral chiefship began not as a specifically Egyptian invention, but instead as a widely shared development of the Middle Nile Culture Area.

After about 3500 B.C., however, Egypt would have started to take on a new role vis-a-vis the Middle Nile region, simply because of its greater concentration of population. Growing pressures on land and resources soon enhanced and transformed the political powers of sacral chiefs. Unification followed, and the local deities of predynastic times became gods in a new polytheism, while sacral chiefs gave way to a divine king. At the same time, Egypt passed from the wings to center stage in the unfolding human drama of northeastern Africa.

'A Note on the Use of Linguistic Evidence for History

Languages provide a powerful set of tools for probing the cultural history of the peoples who spoke them. Determining the relationships between particular languages, such as the languages of the Afrasian or the Nilo-Saharan family, gives us an outline history of the societies that spoke those languages in the past. And because each word in a language has its own individual history, the vocabulary of every language forms a huge archive of documents. If we can trace a particular word back to the common ancestor language of a language family, then we know that the item of culture connoted by the word was known to the people who spoke the ancestral tongue. If the word underwent a meaning change between then and now, a corresponding change must have taken place in the cultural idea or practice referred to by the word. In contrast, if a word was borrowed from another language, it attests to a thing or development that passed from the one culture to the other. The English borrowing, for example, of castle, duke, parliament, and many other political and legal terms from Old Norman French are evidence of a Norman period of rule in England, a fact confirmed by documents.' "

 

[defyinwitelies]

There are Step Pyramids in Mali West Africa! , and stone cult tribes in Senegal West Africa!!.
There are also Pyramids in the Black Sudan!! do the research.

Pyramids were created and designed by Black Africans.!!

What have they done lately?

Gain the American Presidency. You did not know, where have you been?

 

[defyinwitelies]

Hundreds of years from now there will be a negro on the internet claiming the bloods and crips were the great armys of America

And today we have whites on the internet claiming that dark skin caucasians from Norway or Sweden were somehow responsible for building pyramids in Ancient Egypt.

 

[Tank]

Gain the American Presidency. You did not know, where have you been?

Thats like giving credit to the first monkey in space for building a rocket

 

[defyinwitelies]

Ancient Egypt was founded and built by Mediterranean Caucasians as
far back as 4500 B.C. Egypt's period of greatness was from 3400 B.C. to 1800
B.C. and was characterized by its amazing architecture, pyramids, temples,
and mastery of mathematics and engineering, the remnants of which are still
evident today. The White Egyptians pioneered medicine, chemistry, astronomy,
and law; In many cases, their achievements remain unequalled.

But, about 3400 B.C. Egypt civilization began to spread up the
Nile River, bringing it in close contact with the black Nubians to the
south. Soon they were using Blacks for slave labor and Egypt became
history's first melting pot.

In time the infusion of Negro blood worked itself up from the
bottom of Egyptian society. The slaves were eventually freed, received
political equality, and took posts of authority in government.

By the time of King Tut (1370-1352 B.C.) even the ruling classes
had been mongrelized and Egypt began a tailspin downward. Today, the
once-mighty Egypt is very much a Third World country, having lost its art,
its medicine, its architectural ability, and its position in world affairs.


The absurd notion that Ancient Egypt was a product of Negro ingenuity is now
being widely disseminated in the schools. Though scholars know this is a
blatant lie, they justify the deception by assuming it will boost the
"self-esteem" of Black children.

Is it just me or do you sound familiar? Next time you try to spew your predictable and primordial Aryan race theory garbage, try phrasing it in a way not exactly like what you have posted in a thousand different places on the internet before. You are becoming some kind of institution on the internet-- the last bastion of the Aryan race theory. I pray for the day when the last of of your primeval race (ie aryan racists, not white persons) will eventually die off, become extinct like the neanderthals.

 

[GHook93]

I dont think so, i think they were medium brown --> google their self-depictions they clearly distinguish themselfes from the SSA race...Greek Writers describe them as Northindian looking and Southindians as Ethiopian looking but with straight hair

European Whites conquered Egypt many times over before the Arabs took over and made Egypt an Arab country. However, I do think the ancient Egyptians were Black non-Arabs!

 

[GHook93]

I dont think so, i think they were medium brown --> google their self-depictions they clearly distinguish themselfes from the SSA race...Greek Writers describe them as Northindian looking and Southindians as Ethiopian looking but with straight hair

I know you, why did you follow me here? This topic has been beaten to death in the other forums we posted in, Ancient Egyptians were indigenous Northeast Africans more similar to Nubians, Saharans, and Horn of Africans like Somalis and Ethiopians and looked nothing like Europeans or Arabs.

Hi Bass, cool to see you around... I think they looked like they look today, how can a whole population/nation dissappear and become another race?

Impossible??? During the Arab conquest of the Arabian Pennisula and North Africa, the indigeous people North Africa where mostly pushed out, hence, the reason why Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Algeria, Tunsia etc are all Arab not Black countries. Not to mention 40-50% of the Egyptian population was killed by the Black Plague!

 

[defyinwitelies]

Gain the American Presidency. You did not know, where have you been?

Thats like giving credit to the first monkey in space for building a rocket

Yeah. Well then, what does it say about you that you are being ruled by a monkey. Would it be fair to speculate that you are something much less than a monkey: perhaps Lichen, Fungi, bacteria, amoeba-- among the lowest life forms existing right now on God's green earth? Am not saying you are, only asking.

 

[Ozmar]

I dont think so, i think they were medium brown --> google their self-depictions they clearly distinguish themselfes from the SSA race...Greek Writers describe them as Northindian looking and Southindians as Ethiopian looking but with straight hair

I know you, why did you follow me here? This topic has been beaten to death in the other forums we posted in, Ancient Egyptians were indigenous Northeast Africans more similar to Nubians, Saharans, and Horn of Africans like Somalis and Ethiopians and looked nothing like Europeans or Arabs.

As I understand history, Alexander conquered most of the world including Egypt and it was he who created the Greek influence by instating Ptolmy in the leadership role. Anything before that time, around 300 or so BC, probably was due to native Egyptian creativity, organization and culture.

Another of my understandings in this was that the desertification of Northern Africa forced the indiginous Desert people to migrate to less arrid areas. When the desert people met the Nile people, as often happens when cultures mix, a synergy of talents followed and the Ancient Egyptian civilization rose.

It seems more logical to me to deduce from this that Africans built the Egyptian society than it is to assume that the backward, by comparisson, cultures from other areas of the Mediterranean, did so.

The Chinese and Japanese cultures rose without aid from European whites. I don't know why there are those who will torture history to make it say things that it doesn't seem willing to say on its own.

Actually, there is a white supremacist argument that a white ruling class laid the foundations of those civilizations, only to later be bred out by asiatic peoples. They even go as far as to suggest the royal family of Japan has "finer" features and therefore are of caucasian descent, and thus naturally the leaders. There are examples used of supposedly ancient "caucasoid" skeletons in China, etc...

THE CAUCASIANS OF CHINA — SECRETS OF THE REDHEAD MUMMIES, by Heather Pringle

March of the Titans

 

[defyinwitelies]

Monkey, shut your face and try posting evidence to support your silly assertion that Ancient Egyptians were not indigenous Northeast Africans physically more similar to Saharans, Nubians and Horners.

The homophobe versus the bigot....this ought to be good. Mebbe you two can beat some fucking respect for others into each other? If not, please just beat one another...saves me doing it.

BTW, Tank, my black friends can buy and sell you IQ-wise (and elsewise, no doubt). This "hope" you have that whites are smarter is disproven by every post you make.

I'm not a homophobe, gays can argue socially whatever they want, its just the religious side I care about. Homosexuality was present a lot in Greece and Rome but not in any African civilization, but my main point was that Greece and Rome wasn't the only civilizations in the worlds and their are others that preceded them.

Who says that homosexualitry was not present in African civilizations? What do you make then of the relationship between King Neferkare and General Sisene illustrated in a text from as early as the 6th dynasty. And in other texts in Ancient Egypt, like the Book of the dead: “O His-Face-Behind-Him, who comes forth from Tep-het-djat, I have not been perverted; I have not had sexual relations with a boy." Such a cofession would not be necessary in a society where homosexuality was not known.

It does mean that homosexuality may have been frowned upon, unlike in Ancient Rome or greece, but it does not mean that it was nonexistent.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

The homophobe versus the bigot....this ought to be good. Mebbe you two can beat some fucking respect for others into each other? If not, please just beat one another...saves me doing it.

BTW, Tank, my black friends can buy and sell you IQ-wise (and elsewise, no doubt). This "hope" you have that whites are smarter is disproven by every post you make.

I'm not a homophobe, gays can argue socially whatever they want, its just the religious side I care about. Homosexuality was present a lot in Greece and Rome but not in any African civilization, but my main point was that Greece and Rome wasn't the only civilizations in the worlds and their are others that preceded them.

Who says that homosexualitry was not present in African civilizations? What do you make then of the relationship between King Neferkare and General Sisene illustrated in a text from as early as the 6th dynasty. And in other texts in Ancient Egypt, like the Book of the dead: “O His-Face-Behind-Him, who comes forth from Tep-het-djat, I have not been perverted; I have not had sexual relations with a boy." Such a cofession would not be necessary in a society where homosexuality was not known.

It does mean that homosexuality may have been frowned upon, unlike in Ancient Rome or greece, but it does not mean that it was nonexistent.

I think you need to study Egyptology instead of throwing back gay propaganda.

 

[defyinwitelies]

from as early as the 6th dynasty. And in other texts in Ancient Egypt, like the Book of the dead: “O His-Face-Behind-Him, who comes forth from Tep-het-djat, I have not been perverted; I have not had sexual relations with a boy." Such a cofession would not be necessary in a society where homosexuality was not known.

It does mean that homosexuality may have been frowned upon, unlike in Ancient Rome or greece, but it does not mean that it was nonexistent.

I think you need to study Egyptology instead of throwing back gay propaganda.

 

[defyinwitelies]

from as early as the 6th dynasty. And in other texts in Ancient Egypt, like the Book of the dead: “O His-Face-Behind-Him, who comes forth from Tep-het-djat, I have not been perverted; I have not had sexual relations with a boy." Such a cofession would not be necessary in a society where homosexuality was not known.

It does mean that homosexuality may have been frowned upon, unlike in Ancient Rome or greece, but it does not mean that it was nonexistent.

I think you need to study Egyptology instead of throwing back gay propaganda.

There may well be a need for me to study more Egyptology, Mr Master of Egyptology. After all one never stops learning and one can never be too educated. However there is also an even greater need for you to respect the rights of those whose lifestyles you dont agree with. And i am not in the business of'throwing back gay propaganda' just the business of truth. And homophobic bigotry is is no less inglorious than racist Aryan bigotry.

But that being said, this is thread should not be ruined by us going offtopic.

 

[Tank]

What I'd like to know is how blacks went from the most intelligent people in history, to todays dumbest

 

[code1211]

I know you, why did you follow me here? This topic has been beaten to death in the other forums we posted in, Ancient Egyptians were indigenous Northeast Africans more similar to Nubians, Saharans, and Horn of Africans like Somalis and Ethiopians and looked nothing like Europeans or Arabs.

As I understand history, Alexander conquered most of the world including Egypt and it was he who created the Greek influence by instating Ptolmy in the leadership role. Anything before that time, around 300 or so BC, probably was due to native Egyptian creativity, organization and culture.

Another of my understandings in this was that the desertification of Northern Africa forced the indiginous Desert people to migrate to less arrid areas. When the desert people met the Nile people, as often happens when cultures mix, a synergy of talents followed and the Ancient Egyptian civilization rose.

It seems more logical to me to deduce from this that Africans built the Egyptian society than it is to assume that the backward, by comparisson, cultures from other areas of the Mediterranean, did so.

The Chinese and Japanese cultures rose without aid from European whites. I don't know why there are those who will torture history to make it say things that it doesn't seem willing to say on its own.

Actually, there is a white supremacist argument that a white ruling class laid the foundations of those civilizations, only to later be bred out by asiatic peoples. They even go as far as to suggest the royal family of Japan has "finer" features and therefore are of caucasian descent, and thus naturally the leaders. There are examples used of supposedly ancient "caucasoid" skeletons in China, etc...

THE CAUCASIANS OF CHINA — SECRETS OF THE REDHEAD MUMMIES, by Heather Pringle

March of the Titans

We all see things to some extent from a unique view point. Racists see all things from their view point and have closed their minds to all of the other possiblities.

In the case of the White Supremacists, the existance of non-"white" supremacy is, by their definition, impossible. If a thing is impossible, then, as Holmes would say, any other explanation, no matter how improbable, is accepted.

Hence this explanation weaving in the influence of the Supreme White to explain the superiority of the non-White cultures. If one starts with the assumption that white is supreme and non-white is inferior, rationality is absent at the start.

In exactly the same method of thought, there are minorities who start with the assumption that any deficiency in their lot is the fault of the evil whites. All things negative in their lives are the product of someone else. Any correction of these wrongs, therefore, can only come from the effort of someone else.

Closing minds to possibility closes doors to opportunity.